NJ Legality of This Pistol Case

[vladtepes 1,060]

In this case, I respectfully disagree. If I was transporting a firearm in the cab of a pickup truck, I would personally feel safer to secure the contents in a lockable container that is bolted down to deter any prying eyes and/or possible theft if I had to leave the vehicle for whatever circumstance may arise.

 

it is a pistol case.. directly to and from the range.. if your car breaks down.. you will not likely leave your unattended gun in the car.. you would likely take it with you.. if you got in a sever accident and were unconscious would you not want the weapon secured? as opposed to being locked in your car?

 

I am just saying.. with it being a pistol..

only going to and from range..

there is NO logical reason to lock the gun other than conditioning that has occurred to make NJ residents feel like criminals..

operate within the law.. anything more is paranoia..

 

So, let me clarify: It's not about complying with non-existant laws but possibly avoiding an escalated situation if one was to get pulled over. My concern is if an officer would act differently (any LEOs care to chime in?) if they spotted a firearm bag in the cabin of a vehicle.

 

again.. to be clear..

you are transporting WITHIN the parameters of the law..

if they would act differently they should lose their jobs.. people with guns are not automatically dangerous.. or criminals.. and a gun in a range bag? that is not a threat.. when I am in PA I walk into stores with a LOADED gun openly carried on my belt.. police do not go into high alert assuming I am about to shoot up the place..

 

the law exists to dictate how things must be legally done..

follow the law and you are where you need to be..

[Nikos 31]

it is a pistol case.. directly to and from the range.. if your car breaks down.. you will not likely leave your unattended gun in the car.. you would likely take it with you.. if you got in a sever accident and were unconscious would you not want the weapon secured? as opposed to being locked in your car?

 

I am just saying.. with it being a pistol..

only going to and from range..

there is NO logical reason to lock the gun other than conditioning that has occurred to make NJ residents feel like criminals..

operate within the law.. anything more is paranoia..

If I take the pistol bag with me for whatever reason causes me to exit from my vehicle (excluding home and range), I may then be considered as carrying a concealed weapon. I would personally feel safer to have it locked away in the vehicle then to find out what's waiting for me behind door #2 if an officer asks me what's inside my bag.

 

again.. to be clear..

you are transporting WITHIN the parameters of the law..

if they would act differently they should lose their jobs.. people with guns are not automatically dangerous.. or criminals.. and a gun in a range bag? that is not a threat.. when I am in PA I walk into stores with a LOADED gun openly carried on my belt.. police do not go into high alert assuming I am about to shoot up the place..

 

the law exists to dictate how things must be legally done..

follow the law and you are where you need to be..

 

A person transporting his firearm may be doing so "within the parameters of the law", but you know damn well that there are officers out there that may view it differently. This falls in the "ounce of prevention..." category.

 

I would also like to hear from any NJ LEO's if they would act differently if they spotted a firearm bag in the cabin of a vehicle.

[Soju 153]

again.. to be clear..

you are transporting WITHIN the parameters of the law..

if they would act differently they should lose their jobs.. people with guns are not automatically dangerous.. or criminals.. and a gun in a range bag? that is not a threat.. .

 

the law exists to dictate how things must be legally done..

 

What you say, is correct, in that it is how things should be, and how they are suppose to be. But how things actually are, is a different thing entirely.

 

Look no further than an early reply in this very thread.

 

You have firearm in a closed and fastened case on your backseat. Legal? Yes. However Officer X sees it, decides that is probable cause to search your vehicle (whether it is or not is irrelevant), finds your pistol, and arrests you because he believes that it must be locked. Again, the fact he is not right, is irrelevant. In this very thread, we have evidence of LEO who thought this.

 

Same scenario, but instead, it is in a locked case. As Officer X thinks it must be in a locked case, and it is, so off you go on your merry way.

 

So now, in scenario 1, you are facing potentially felony charges for doing nothing illegal, yet doing a little extra (scenario 2) may have saved you time, money, and possibly a criminal charge.

 

If people were only ever arrested and charged with crimes with 100% accuracy, there would be little need for a trial. But that is not how things work. You can be charged and convicted of something you never did if some DA or someone wants to push the issue, or make a statement. That happens more then you think.

[PK90 3,573]

.... nevermind....

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Major overthinking on this topic. The question was "...is this legal?" Asked and answered, ad nauseum. Apparently that's not enough for all of you that want to attribute a lack of intelligence to LE. The question didn't ask, hypothetically, what could happen. It asked if the mode of transport was legal. Yes! End of thread.

 

Sheesh, folks :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[Fabricator 0]

I agree i rather take a few extra small steps like a trigger lock, cable lock or some kind of locking case. I rather do this stuff then spend a lot of money defending my self because of some anti gun who does not know the law or who does not care to follow it.

[vladtepes 1,060]

this is so ridiculous..

 

ok.. you put it on the back seat with a lock..

 

what if the LEO thinks it can NOT be in the passenger compartment..

the problem I have with inventing rules.. is that there is literally no end to it..

 

what if LEO thinks ammo and gun can not be in the same compartment..

what if LEO thinks there HAS to be a trigger lock no matter what..

what if LEO thinks the ammo HAS to be locked up..

what if LEO thinks loaded mag is loaded gun..

what if LEO thinks HP ammo is illegal anywhere..

what if LEO thinks gun has to be field stripped prior to transport...

 

do you get what I am saying? where does it end.. you say oh well I will just lock it in case the officer thinks it should be.. ok.. well what if the officer you deal with thinks all of those other things as well..

there is only ONE way to satisfy the law.. and that is to follow the law.. anything beyond that is speculation.. and guessing..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I agree i rather take a few extra small steps like a trigger lock, cable lock or some kind of locking case. I rather do this stuff then spend a lot of money defending my self because of some anti gun who does not know the law or who does not care to follow it.

 

What other laws do you add extra steps???

 

Again as is said in ever single one of these threads. Don't make up your own laws, you want to do it fine, but to advocate making up fake laws and complying with them...

[PK90 3,573]

Just as an addition, the NJSP website is instructing those that are traveling into or through NJ, not within the state. FOPA vs. NJ Law. Different criteria.

[Soju 153]

this is so ridiculous..

 

 

Sure is!

 

 

what if the LEO thinks...

 

 

Indeed. My example however was based specifically what a LEO said in this thread, so it is a bit more than mere speculation/guessing.

 

there is only ONE way to satisfy the law.. and that is to follow the law.. anything beyond that is speculation.. and guessing..

 

What you seem to think, is that things are black and white. Again, that is how it SHOULD be. But it is not. That is why there are these debates/discussions. Because there isn't only ONE way to follow the law, and there are literally thousands of examples to substantiate this (not just this topic specifically, but in general).

 

The best solution is to avoid all police interaction entirely. Then it doesn't even matter if you are following the law or not.

[tommy3rd 132]

if you're that concerned about breaking transportation law, then do what you have to do to feel secure. if it means field stripping the gun and placing each part in a separate locked container, then more power to you.

people are giving you the (minimum) requirements by law. if you want to add your own stuff, go ahead...we're not stopping you.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Sure is!

 

 

 

Indeed. My example however was based specifically what a LEO said in this thread, so it is a bit more than mere speculation/guessing.

 

 

 

What you seem to think, is that things are black and white. Again, that is how it SHOULD be. But it is not. That is why there are these debates/discussions. Because there isn't only ONE way to follow the law, and there are literally thousands of examples to substantiate this (not just this topic specifically, but in general).

 

The best solution is to avoid all police interaction entirely. Then it doesn't even matter if you are following the law or not.

 

I have met at least one LEO in my lifetime that was under the impression that HP ammo is illegal for private ownership..

that did not lead me to create imaginary laws to live by.. it also did not make me throw my HP ammo in the city land fill..

 

you can do what you like.. I just think bending to adhere to non existent laws is silly.. and I think it is extra silly to do it under the mindset that it somehow makes you "safer"

 

at the end of the day.. here in america.. do what you want.. I just dont get it..

[Soju 153]

I think you know I am not suggesting anything. I've been pretty firm on that. I am stating there is another side to it, and things are not as black and white as you sometimes suggest. Personally, my feelings towards these type of things are probably pretty darn close to how you feel. But how I feel, how you feel, what the law says, they only matter so much. There is more to the way things are than you make it seem. Also, there is a huge difference between worrying about things, and understanding them.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Why would a cop think a bag in your vehicle contains a handgun and/or ammo? Does the bag say Glock or S&W on it? Two of my bags have nothing on the outside, a third is from Midway. How many people know what the heck Midway is anyway? Was a good movie, an important battle, but it doesn't say GUN INSIDE!

 

Now, the scenario of being involved in a bad accident that required you to remove the bag(s) from the disabled vehicle and now possibly taking a ride in an ambulance with your stuff, that would be interesting....................

[vladtepes 1,060]

If I take the pistol bag with me for whatever reason causes me to exit from my vehicle (excluding home and range), I may then be considered as carrying a concealed weapon. I would personally feel safer to have it locked away in the vehicle then to find out what's waiting for me behind door #2 if an officer asks me what's inside my bag.

it is range to home.. and only deviations that are necessary..

I am sure if your car broke down..

and your options were

 

a) leave gun in car and hope your gun lock was enough to keep it safe

or

b) transport the gun home in someone else's vehicle..

 

b would be the right answer a million times over..

[Dan 177]

Just as an addition, the NJSP website is instructing those that are traveling into or through NJ, not within the state. FOPA vs. NJ Law. Different criteria.

 

This...

 

For people driving through NJ , in which their trip does not fit in our exemptions, they must follow FOPA. This dictates that the gun be unloaded and LOCKED up seperate from the ammo.

[halbautomatisch 60]

If I take the pistol bag with me for whatever reason causes me to exit from my vehicle (excluding home and range), I may then be considered as carrying a concealed weapon. NJ law does not distinguish between carrying concealed and open, you are either transporting a firearm legally or your not. I would personally feel safer to have it locked away in the vehicle then to find out what's waiting for me behind door #2 if an officer asks me what's inside my bag. If an officer asks what's in the bag, you respectfully tell him you don't want to answer that question, if he asks if he can look in the bag you politely tell him no, both of which are completely within your rights and under the law will not generate Probable Cause to search your vehicle.

 

 

 

A person transporting his firearm may be doing so "within the parameters of the law", but you know damn well that there are officers out there that may view it differently. This falls in the "ounce of prevention..." category. If the police want to violate your civil rights by charging you with something that is not illegal, you may have a good lawsuit against them.

 

I would also like to hear from any NJ LEO's if they would act differently if they spotted a firearm bag in the cabin of a vehicle.

[Qel Hoth 33]

If an officer stops your vehicle (routine traffic stop) and spots the gun bag when he approaches, does that give him/her probable cause to search the vehicle?

 

My concern is that if you're going to keep the firearm and ammo in the cab, it may be a better idea to lock the bag in a box.

 

Opinions?

 

IMO , IANAL

 

Reasonable suspicion, maybe. Even if the bag said Glock, SigSauer, Colt, S&W, etc, on it, it would still only be RS that there is a firearm in the vehicle.

 

I don't think that just that bag, or any other range bag, would lead to the level required for Probable Cause to get a search warrant (which is what you need to legally search a vehicle without consent, whether or not a warrant is actually required, the officer must have had sufficient evidence to obtain one). Your refusal to search or state what is in the bag cannot be used as evidence.

[reed338 11]

ok here is the law from the site

 

Related Links Firearms Information

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:

• 
  Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
  
• 
  The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.
  

For additional exemptions refer to Chapter 39, namely 2C:39-6g.

[Qel Hoth 33]

ok here is the law from the site

 

Related Links Firearms Information

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:

• 
  Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
  
• 
  The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.
  

For additional exemptions refer to Chapter 39, namely 2C:39-6g.

 

As was discussed earlier, the information on

the NJSP site is NOT law. The law was quoted earlier in the thread and I'm on a phone now. The law does NOT specify a locked case anywhere.

 

Fopa does, but Fopa is irrelevant here.

[vladtepes 1,060]

ok here is the law from the site

 

Related Links Firearms Information

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:

• Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
  
• The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.
  

For additional exemptions refer to Chapter 39, namely 2C:39-6g.

 

 

you are a little late to the party..

 

if you are going to and from the range there is an important distinction.. you are NOT transporting firearms INTO The state of NJ.. you are already here..

 

the NJSP is discussing transporting guns into and through the state.. as if you are traveling.. thus the information they provide is consistent with FOPA (firearms owner protection act)

this is NOT the law as it applies to an NJ resident traveling WITHIN the state.. the law that applies to a person who is a resident of NJ traveling WITHIN the state to an exempted location has already been explained.. to death.. and that is 6g..

 

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

NO lock NEEDED..

[pjd832 146]

Ok well I have a variant question...I understand that to and from a range WITHIN nj in bag unloaded ,unlocked is legal.... But how about a to and from a range outside the state of nj?...would that fall under interstate transport and require firearm to be locked then?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ok well I have a variant question...I understand that to and from a range WITHIN nj in bag unloaded ,unlocked is legal.... But how about a to and from a range outside the state of nj?...would that fall under interstate transport and require firearm to be locked then?

 

IMO if you are traveling THROUGH NJ into another state.. or through multiple states.. FOPA must be adhered to and thus it must be locked.. but again I am not a lawyer and I just read it as I read it..

[pjd832 146]

Thanks vlad ....that's how I read it..and just wanted a second opinion....

[Belmopan Gringo 5]

IMO if you are traveling THROUGH NJ into another state.. or through multiple states.. FOPA must be adhered to and thus it must be locked.. but again I am not a lawyer and I just read it as I read it..

I happen to be a lawyer, and in my opinion, you are correct with one other thing to take into consideration- the rules of the state and city you are entering.

 

BTW, you may not be an attorney, but your analysis is usually spot on.

[matt6669 71]

Was there a disucssion on here where CA considers a loaded magaziene a firearm or something silly like that?

[Belmopan Gringo 5]

The definition of a weapon, under 2C (specifically NJSA 2C:39-1®) is:

 

"Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but is not limited to, all (1)firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them immediately operable; (2)components which can be readily assembled into a weapon; (3)gravity knives, switchblade knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, or other dangerous knives, billies, blackjacks, bludgeons, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood; and (4) stun guns; and any weapon or other device which projects, releases, or emits tear gas or any other substance intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air."

 

I have heard people offer the opinion that a loaded magaizine might be considered a weapon, but I don't see it under New Jersey law.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I happen to be a lawyer, and in my opinion, you are correct with one other thing to take into consideration- the rules of the state and city you are entering.

 

BTW, you may not be an attorney, but your analysis is usually spot on.

 

thanks.. I try (really hard) to give the best advice I can give.. and if I am not sure I mention I am not sure..

some of the law is very confusing.. fortunately MOST of the firearms law is pretty straight forward.. you just have to sit.. read it (in its entirety) and pay VERY close attention to EVERY single word because the simplest smallest word can change the entire intent.. throw in a word like "or" and it means something completely different than "and".. I think if you just sit.. take your time.. and read it.. most firearms law is pretty clear.. but seriously.. thank you for that compliment..