autoxnyc 4 Posted February 27, 2012 Picked up a barely used M&P 9 Pro. Fit and finish is defintely among one of the better Polymer handguns. It's not bad looking as well. The stock sights are also very good for target use and easy to pick up. The grip fits my hand well with the med insert and trigger reach is very nice. It's definitely more comfortable to hold compared to my G19. The shape of the grip on the M&P does not offer the same resistance to side to side motion of the muzzle due to the blockier profile of the Glock grip. For me holding the M&P does not lend as sturdy/solid of a grip as the G19. The P30 and PPQ both have more comfortable grips but at the same time offer more solid hold than the M&P. Now the trigger, they call this a competition trigger???!!!! The trigger on the Gen3 G19 and PPQ(both striker fired) is much nicer for me even straight out of box. The M&P trigger is definitely lighter than a service/carry pistol but it is really gritty, upon examination of how it works, it's the ramp/cam on the trigger bar engaging the firing pin block. They really need to smooth out the firing pin block and the ramp on the trigger bar from the factory for a competition pistol. Pulling the trigger through it's travel there are quite a few variations in weight and smoothness. The reset is no where as distinctive as any of the Glocks. The grittiness can be fixed by polishing the firing pin safety and the ramp on the trigger bar but the reset is a different story. Does anyone have experience with the APEX competition kit? Will it make a big difference to justify the $95 price tag. This gun should come with a much smoother trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted February 27, 2012 You have the exact same thoughts as me about my mp 40 pro. I want to shoot it a bit before I insider either the carry or competition trigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted February 28, 2012 Just get the APEX kit of your choice and dont look back..... Either Competition or Duty kits are awesome additions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted February 28, 2012 The trigger "enhancements" on the Pro are a joke. Send it to Dan Burwell and he will give you a top notch trigger. Www.burwellguns.com Or get the Apex kit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 28, 2012 What is the build date? I picked up a 9 Pro that was built in 10/11, and it was not bad. 6.25 lb trigger pull, not gritty at all. My expectation was that I would have to rip out the trigger day 1, but was pleasantly surprised over some other Pros I have shot/seen at Shot Show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted February 28, 2012 Does anyone have experience with the APEX competition kit? Will it make a big difference to justify the $95 price tag. This gun should come with a much smoother trigger. Yes I have experience with the Apex competition kit and yes it is worth it. It still has the long pre-travel and no improvement on the reset but, very smooth and a nice crisp break at about 2.5 lbs. If you feel you need to hear or feel the reset you can also intall the Apex RAM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butcherboy78 8 Posted February 28, 2012 Big +1 for the Apex lineup for M&P. I installed all of the parts myself and it was a breeze. I couldnt ask for a better trigger than what i have now, especially with the RAM that lets you hear and feel the reset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autoxnyc 4 Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks guys. I guess APEX it is. I'll get the comp kit + RAM. I'll play around with the springs, 2.5lb is a bit light for my taste without any safety but I'm sure if I stick with the stock striker spring and trigger return spring it won't be that light. Might as well polish the trigger bar while I have it out. This one was manufactured in nov/11. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 28, 2012 the other option, Apex makes the Carry kit... about 5.5 lbs iirc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted February 28, 2012 My M&P will probably go out to Burwell, and for aftermarket sights as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shocker 151 Posted February 28, 2012 I have the DCAEK on my .40 which I feel comfy with, not too light. But if you're going to replace the parts anyway there's tutorials out there for polishing the striker block and trigger bar and stuff that you could try. you obviously would be missing the kit springs though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted February 28, 2012 Is it true the RAM will take the m&p out of production classes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted February 28, 2012 My M&P will probably go out to Burwell, and for aftermarket sights as well. Andres, you are welcome to try out my Burwell M&P 9L any time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted February 28, 2012 Andres, you are welcome to try out my Burwell M&P 9L any time. I gotta try that. It's either gonna be the Burwell job or apex parts. I've heard people having trouble getting a hold of him. What was your turn around time and total cost please sir? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonF 79 Posted February 28, 2012 Andres, you are welcome to try out my Burwell M&P 9L any time. Oh, so you did end up sendig it to Burwell? Which services did you get? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonF 79 Posted February 28, 2012 I gotta try that. It's either gonna be the Burwell job or apex parts. It does cost a little more in the end but the difference is night and day. And for those of us with "banana hands" (and that includes you, me and Dan himself, lol), his long reach mod coupled with the overtravel stop is amazing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted February 28, 2012 I gotta try that. It's either gonna be the Burwell job or apex parts. I've heard people having trouble getting a hold of him. What was your turn around time and total cost please sir? Basically, sending a gun to Dan Burwell is a faith based operation. If I had not heard stellar reviews and testaments to the man's work and his character, I would've been annoyed. You use his website to send him a request to have your gun worked on. There is no listed phone number to contact him. He asks you which services you want, then tells you when to send it in. I sent in a request, had a response a few days later, then sent him my pistol the next week. He had the gun for two weeks (one longer than he needed, due to him not shipping it immediately). I sent him a few e-mails along the way. One to let him know it shipped. A followup one to let him know that a delivery attempt had been made and the package was at his local FedEx office. The following week I asked for a rough ETA. He replied that it would be test fired and shipped on Monday. I waited and heard nothing, so I e-mailed the Friday after that asking about it. I did not get a personal response or explanation. The next day I did get a FedEx e-mail letting me know it was on its way. The day after that it arrived. Despite my annoyance at limited communication with the man, his work on my M&P was nothing short of spectacular. My only regret is that I got the vanilla trigger job (i.e. without JonF's forward trigger set). This has forced me to go to the larger backstrap (which I find less comfortable than the medium) to have proper trigger reach. All in all, I would recommend this. If you are less than patient (like me), know that you may end up being annoyed along the way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autoxnyc 4 Posted February 28, 2012 Does the Burwell job replace any parts or does he modify existing parts? Does it enhance reset? How much does it cost? I'm leaning towards the APEX kit since shipping the pistol both ways will be expensive on top of the trigger job itself. In a striker fired gun a DYI trigger job is not hard at all. How exactly is long reach mod done? The M&P has short trigger reach and the first joint of my index finger rests on the trigger. Although this is much better than the other way around, too long for a trigger reach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autoxnyc 4 Posted February 28, 2012 Lunker, I dont' think the backstrap on the M&P changes the trigger reach much. From my observation, the interchangeable insert does not go all the way up to the beaver tail and that's where the web of the shooting hand rides and predominantly determines trigger reach. I'm curious to see how Burwell does it.. Maybe he changes the trigger/trigger bar so it breaks more forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted February 28, 2012 Burwell did my trigger also Amazing work No parts replacement he modifies existing parts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted February 28, 2012 Lunker, I dont' think the backstrap on the M&P changes the trigger reach much. From my observation, the interchangeable insert does not go all the way up to the beaver tail and that's where the web of the shooting hand rides and predominantly determines trigger reach. I'm curious to see how Burwell does it.. Maybe he changes the trigger/trigger bar so it breaks more forward. It is not that the back of the grip is further back, it is that the grip is as wide as a hand grenade, so my fingers are pulled back by the sheer girth of it. Also, I have read reports that Burwell actually uses the Apex sear these days. Since what he does is a mystery, no one but him can confirm or deny unless they take thier gun apart (admittedly a pretty easy task). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autoxnyc 4 Posted February 28, 2012 I see.. that makes sense. I'll try the large insert and see how it feels. thanks! It is not that the back of the grip is further back, it is that the grip is as wide as a hand grenade, so my fingers are pulled back by the sheer girth of it. Also, I have read reports that Burwell actually uses the Apex sear these days. Since what he does is a mystery, no one but him can confirm or deny unless they take thier gun apart (admittedly a pretty easy task). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonF 79 Posted February 28, 2012 Does the Burwell job replace any parts or does he modify existing parts? Does it enhance reset? How much does it cost? I'm leaning towards the APEX kit since shipping the pistol both ways will be expensive on top of the trigger job itself. In a striker fired gun a DYI trigger job is not hard at all. No, he uses all stock parts and one advantage is that using stock springs, no light strikes! Reset is a function of the trigger bar snapping off the sear and so you cna either tweak it yourself or get the RAM to enhance it. Cost breakdown are on his website (burwellguns.com). a proper gunsmith job is totally worth it compared to drop in parts. Frankly, a DIY job is worth what you paid for it, nothing. All you cna do is polish parts and light recontouring if you're bold. Dan totally recuts the sear and striker for better geometry and individually tunes it per gun so you dont end up with that Apex "slop". I've tried both back to back and it truly is night and day like apex is over stock! How exactly is long reach mod done? The M&P has short trigger reach and the first joint of my index finger rests on the trigger. Although this is much better than the other way around, too long for a trigger reach. He just leaves a little more front ramp on the sear so it breaks sooner. The contour will be more stock-like than apex-like which is heavily recontoured to give a light pull but breaks wayyyy back.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted February 28, 2012 Well unless I get really impatient it looks like I'm gonna go trigger job from Dan. I'd still like to try it out though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted February 28, 2012 Andres, you are welcome to try out my Burwell M&P 9L any time. Thanks for the offer! I tried 67gto's Burwell and it was nice. There seems to be quite a few options so I have to decide on what I exactly want, which is kind of hard when I don't understand all the parts of the trigger that well. I just want it to be nice and smooth that's all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonF 79 Posted February 28, 2012 Well unless I get really impatient it looks like I'm gonna go trigger job from Dan. I'd still like to try it out though. You're welcome to try mine out; i have the extended reach option and overtravel stop on mine and i can't say enough good about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted February 28, 2012 You're welcome to try mine out; i have the extended reach option and overtravel stop on mine and i can't say enough good about it. What exactly is the extended reach option? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonF 79 Posted February 28, 2012 What exactly is the extended reach option? The trigger breaks in the stock OEM position, not all the way back against the trigger guard like the Apex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted February 29, 2012 Is it true the RAM will take the m&p out of production classes I don't believe so. The only Apex part that will take you out of production is the FSS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted February 29, 2012 I've heard the ram isn't Production legal. Anyone with the correct answer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
