More problems, CZ

[nj22 2]

My brand new CZ-85b was having a failure to extract every 200 rounds or so. CZ-USA told me to send it back, and they replaced the extractor spring with an extra power, the recoil spring with a wolff 16#, polished the chamber, and "worked on" the extractor.

 

So I get it to the range today and after 50 rounds I start getting what feel like misfires. The bullet goes downrange, but there's almost no recoil and the gun doesn't cycle. Also (and I know this might sound unbelievable) the holes in the paper and smaller from these rounds.

 

After getting about 5 of these with greater frequency the slide suddenly won't rack. When it finally does I realize that the live rounds won't go into the chamber all the way--in other words, the slide is about 3 mm from being fully forward. I was probably firing rounds off like that and pressure was escaping from the sides?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

What ammo were you using, factory or reloads, also did you try any different ammo. Also when you got the gun back, did you field strip it and clean and lube it.

 

By the way, where are you from, maybe someone else on the forum that knows CZ's can take a look at it and see if there is something you might not be seeing before you go through the trouble of shipping the gun back.

[Vlad G 345]

What ammo are you using?

[nj22 2]

Thanks for the quick responses. My above post is an example of venting before actually checking the problem. This may not be a CZ related problem.

 

I started by shooting a new brand, "Independence" 115 grain fmj. I had 0 problems with these. Then I switched to WWB (115 fmj). The weird half-fire happened with only the WWB.

 

To anwer your questions Harry, yes, I did field strip it after getting it back, lubed it, and checked all their work (mostly out of curiosity).

 

Here's the most recent news. Before doing anything I tried to cycle some snap caps to recreate the problem. It was exactly as before. I stripped the gun and checked the extractor. No issues, still clean from last time. Then I checked the chamber. It had what looked like large grains of sand jammed between the chamber and the rifled part of the barrel. I can only speculate that this is unburned power? (I've never reloaded so I don't know what it looks like). It was large, tan grains. Cleaned it out, reassembled the gun, and the snap caps cycle fine.

 

So, was it the weird new ammo (never heard of independence, but was curious) that made the gun dirty thus not allowing the WWB to get into the chamber? Or is the bulk WWB I bought somehow damaged, and the powder wasn't fully burning off leaving residue in the chamber?

 

And in either case, did I hurt my firearm by shooting rounds that may not have been fully in the chamber?

 

Thanks guys, in a few mins I will edit my original post so as not to point fingers at CZ.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'd clean (double check the barrel out of the gun and try putting a few rounds by hand in the barrel off the gun and see if they seat properly) Then lube her and take some good range ammo and see how she does.

 

Just take it slow and make sure the slide is not out of battery after each shot. and let us know how that goes for you.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Those Independence 9mm rounds are just fine, In fact they are federal brass reloads. My buddy got a bunch of boxes from the BH, and i stole all his brass hehe. But 200rds did cycle just fine through his m9a1. Since i keep my federal AE brass i knew exactly what they looked like.

[nj22 2]

What should I check the barrel for? There's no obvious damage/change, but is there anything specific you would keep an eye out for?

 

Any thoughts on the bullets that seemed to half-fire? Does it sound like a good round that wasn't seated correctly? Or more like a bad batch of ammo?

 

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all the help.

[Vlad G 345]

Sounds to me like some of your ammo was very very bad. I can't tell you which one but one of them is not burning correctly or at ALL, be very very careful.

 

What you are describing sounds like the powder is not igniting and only very little powder is burning and the bullet is being driven out by the primer pressure alone. This is a recipe for disaster as sooner or later a round will NOT leave the barrel (what we call a squib) and firing the gun again will result in disaster. Your gun is probably fine as no overpressure or out of battery rounds were fired.

 

That ammo needs to go back to the manufacturer because I don't think they are supposed to use corn meal for powder

 

Oh ,, and those "smaller" holes on paper .. they weren't smaller exactly, its just that the slower moving bullet did tear as many radial tears around it and likely you had less of a black "grease" ring left on the paper as well.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

You stated that everything worked fine with the Independence ammo. It wasn't until you started with the WWB that the misfires occurred. I'd say the WWB was your problem. Your gun would not fire when it is out of battery - that's what the disconnector is for. Sounds like the WWB has contaminated powder. Where did it come from, how was it stored? You could contact Winchester, but I doubt they will do anything as they can't control it once it leaves their dock.

 

Harry was saying check the barrel to make sure that it is clear of any obstructions.

 

Not the firearm's fault.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[nj22 2]

Yes, I definitely think it was the WWB. Every round was fine with the Independence. Every mag (I load 5 rounds) had at least one misfire with WWB.

 

I bought it at Bass Pro Shops, 100 round bulk boxes. I store ammo in old 50 round boxes so I can keep track of how many rounds I shoot. Kept in a cool, dry place for maybe 1.5 months. Ammo shouldn't go bad that quickly, right?

 

I thought the disconnect was so the gun couldn't fire without a mag? But I do hope you're right and I can't fire a round when it is out of battery. I'd hate to think I might have damaged the firearm.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I thought the disconnect was so the gun couldn't fire without a mag? But I do hope you're right and I can't fire a round when it is out of battery. I'd hate to think I might have damaged the firearm.

 

There may be a magazine disconnector (kind of surprised that CZ has this), but there is also a disconnector in the trigger linkage that will not allow the gun to fire out of battery.

[nj22 2]

Good to know. Everything seems to be in working order, so I will assume (thanks Bob) that no harm was done. I have no idea if CZ has a mag disconnector, I just thought that's what a disconnector was. Just my ignorance.

 

Called Wincester. While the nice woman on the phone said she did not know of any bad batches of ammo, she wants me to return the boxes to them for inspection. Hopefully they replace them!

[tony357 386]

With the barrel off the gun place a round in the chamber the back of the bullet should just be below the barrel..If it sticks up you have a problem either ammo is out of spec or barrel is..

 

Took a pic, right where the loaded chamber indicator is you should be just below that area..

 

[nj22 2]

How does this look?

 

It really does sound like the primers were going off but not the powder.

[tony357 386]

How does this look?

 

It really does sound like the primers were going off but not the powder.

 

looks ok full case in the chamber..

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Haven't had any issues with Independence 9mm 115gr.

[Maksim 1,504]

who makes independence reloads? or are they independent? hehe.

 

I would be hesitant to buy reloads from a company I do not know, nor are you guaranteed actual support.

 

How much are you actually savings buying reloads from an unknown company as opposed to new factory ammo, with new brass.

 

The issue with reloads are 1. what process are they using. 2. What kind of brass? Is it 9mm open/major range pickup, or strictly LE range pickup.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

.

Is it 9mm open/major range pickup,

 

This is one of the reasons all my 9mm brass I have is from my shooting or during Steel matches where I know what the shooters are shooting and they don't save brass. A lot more people are shooting 9 Major and more all the time and I'd just rather not waste my time with that brass.

[tony357 386]

He had trouble with the new WWB ammo.. If i read that correctly..

[nj22 2]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was the WWB ammo--bought in bulk in the new packaging. Didn't know independence was reloads when I bought a box at Bullet Hole. Just something new I wanted to try.

[PeteF 1,044]

There was a thread around here recently that there were some issues with the quality control of WWB. I don't remember the details, but there was a contract dispute or a facility move.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

who makes independence reloads? or are they independent? hehe.

 

I would be hesitant to buy reloads from a company I do not know, nor are you guaranteed actual support.

 

How much are you actually savings buying reloads from an unknown company as opposed to new factory ammo, with new brass.

 

The issue with reloads are 1. what process are they using. 2. What kind of brass? Is it 9mm open/major range pickup, or strictly LE range pickup.

 

When i did a search they came up as federal CCI

 

http://www.ammunitio...ds-p-16741.html

 

possibly plated bullets and cheap powder version? Looks like its new brass, not reloads. I wonder why the box doesn't have the manufacture on it? I guess you could compare it to the federal champion line, which is basically cci. Not sure what the point of Independence is when they have blazer brass.