AR Triggers

[NJdiverTony 27]

So, thinking about upgrading my stock trigger... I put a Spike's Tactical LPK into my build and the parts are first rate... Great stuff! The standard Spikes trigger is very good, but I want something with a bit lighter trigger pull. The Spikes standard trigger (single stage) is about 7lbs and I wouldn't mind getting down into the 4 to 4.5lb range. It seems like a lot of guys like the Geissele SSA for their carbine's, but I know there are other options out there like the Timney's and etc... The single stage is OK, besides the weight... but would a two stage be better?

 

Any suggestions from you guys? What do think I should look into? I found a local FFL that has the Geissele SSA in stock, so contemplating going with that... but not 100% sure yet.

 

My AR shoots fine with the standard trigger, but I imagine I can tighten up my groups at 100+ yrds with a lighter smoother trigger... Right now I'm getting average 4" to 5" groups (@ 100 yrds) with the standard trigger off a bag, and I'm thinking that this is because of the heavy trigger pullk, and that I can probablly improve that with a better trigger. What do you guys think?

[Jon 264]

I would just drop a set of JP springs in there and call it a day. Give me a shout the next time you go to the range and I'll bring my AR with me for you to try out. Just a basic LPK and JP springs and it's great for a plinker.

[Vlad G 345]

I like the Geissele triggers, and I prefer the 3gun version, but it is "odd" so unless you get to play with one first it is a bit of a gamble, specially seeing how it is the most expensive one they make. To me, it is perfect, but it is a hybrid, neither single stage nor two stage.

 

You can drop in the JP springs, but go with the tactical set not the competition set or you won't light up certain ammo without the speed hammer.

[MandM 2]

I love my Geissele SSA. Light and crisp enough for a full length pull and the 2nd stage is nice. It's light. I find myself using both stages frequently and I think I would stay with a 2-stage if I had to do it all over again, instead of getting a 1 stage Timney or something like that.

[Dan 177]

I have a Geissele Super Dynamic 3 gun, and two SSA-E ' s. Love all of them. After buying my first Geissele, I will no longer build an AR without one.

 

SD3G is a flat trigger, with a single stage pull that reminds me of a 1911

SSA-E is a regular looking trigger, 2 stage. Super smooth and light 1st stage take up, with a well defined crisp break 2nd stage.

[JonF 79]

I have a Geissele Super Dynamic 3 gun, and two SSA-E ' s. Love all of them. After buying my first Geissele, I will no longer build an AR without one.

 

SD3G is a flat trigger, with a single stage pull that reminds me of a 1911

SSA-E is a regular looking trigger, 2 stage. Super smooth and light 1st stage take up, with a well defined crisp break 2nd stage.

You have both? nice! I've tried the SSA-E on a demo once, but never the S3G. I've been wanting to upgrade my simple GI trigger for a while now and I'd love to compare the two back to back some time.

[NJdiverTony 27]

Thanks for the info guys... I think the SSA would be a good choice for my AR, since it's more of a short to midrange distance fighting carbine... but damn, the cost is crazy ($180 for a trigger?!?!?).

[NJdiverTony 27]

j0n, Vlad,

 

The only spring set that I see on JP's website that will work with standard AR triggers is this:

 

http://www.jprifles....php?item=JPS3.5

 

Is this what you guys are talking about? Is there any need to worry about light primer hits?

 

Also found this note on that page, which concerned me since I shoot 5.56 NATO ammo:

 

"Note: Use of this spring kit requires the use of US manufactured (domestic) ammunition or reloads with domestic (non-NATO spec) primers as ignition reliability will be reduced with hard low sensitivity primers as found in made foreign made ammunitions and NATO specification ammunition. Use these parts only in rifles for recreational or competition shooting. Do not use this spring kit for any defense or duty applications or any AR-10 type rifle."

[Jon 264]

I believe mine are the "reliability springs", with one yellow and one red spring.

[Vlad G 345]

the 3G is not really single stage. It is more like a 2 stage trigger missing its second stage. Basically there is a even pull through what one would consider the first stage, feeling like the good two stage trigger, except there is no wall for the second stage, the gun just fires. It is kinda hard to describe, and yes the super dynamic flat trigger version is awesome (that is the version I also use). Theoretically it should be a bit harder to use for precision work then a true 2 stage but it is much much faster and easier to shoot for run-and-gun.

 

 

j0n, Vlad,

 

The only spring set that I see on JP's website that will work with standard AR triggers is this:

 

http://www.jprifles....php?item=JPS3.5

 

Is this what you guys are talking about? Is there any need to worry about light primer hits?

 

Also found this note on that page, which concerned me since I shoot 5.56 NATO ammo:

 

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.3_spring.php here are all the versions. I would NOT use the red one with the basic trigger parts, thats where you get in trouble, note they also specify that it should only be used with JP parts.

[raz-0 1,260]

OK, triggers.

 

If you want something that feels like a 2- 2.5lb 1911 trigger, get an ar gold trigger.

 

If you want durable with a decent feel, get giessele.

 

If you want a drop in trigger pack, Chip McCormick, timney are decent at this point. I'd probably go timney first becuase theirs is a bit nicer feel. The CMC one had to bump up the weight to avoid reliability issues.

 

Wilson combats trigger packs look good, but I have yet to try one in person.

 

If you go with a drop in trigger pack, if it does not come with anti-walk pins, or some other form of pin retainer, GET SOME.

[JonF 79]

How do the jard's stack up? I'd like a nice 2-3lb single stage trigger for use with a 22LR upper for steel challenge but it has to have sufficient hammer spring tension to ignite the 22. My current springfield speed hammer/jp yellow fails to ignite all 22's with my CMMG bolt nearly 100% of the time.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Spikes makes an enhanced trigger that I have used, its a great trigger and maybe what your looking for. I like milspec triggers, so that being said 7lbs is good for me

[Dan 177]

Jon, remind me before the next USPSA match that we will both be at, and I'll bring my lower with the SD3G for you to try out.

[JonF 79]

I actually have a S3G trigger in my 5.56 carbine and i love that trigger, however, i was looking for a lesser expensive, single-stage alternative for my dedicated .22LR build. I'd love to have a Geissele in every gun but that can get expensive quick! The problem with some of the simple GI-based massaged trigger kits is that they will use lightened hammers and springs which may be fine for most centerfire primers, but that's not always the case for 22lr. Often you need heavier springs for reliable rimfire ammo ignition in the same gun, but it for pistols or rifles using some conversion kit.

[Old School 611]

Check this out. A new solution to an old trick I've been doing for awhile...

 

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=JB-TRIGGERADJUSTER&utm_source=JoeBob+Subscribers&utm_campaign=b344e4a1b6-PMC+223+Sale-Spike%27s+Uppers%2FLowers&utm_medium=email

 

The only thing I do it for $0.40

[JonF 79]

Interesting. IT looks like it takes out the dead pretravel, but does it do anything for the overall pull weight?

[Old School 611]

Interesting. IT looks like it takes out the dead pretravel, but does it do anything for the overall pull weight?

 

You are actually removing part of the hammer / trigger engagement. Alot of the weight is dragging the trigger over the horizontal grooves that are ground into the notch on the hammer. Less travel removes some of the weight. A lighter trigger return spring removes more weight,

 

Not with this part but by using this method I have 3.25 lb triggers.

[Vlad G 345]

Hmm .. I can see that going badly depending on the condition and engagement of the disconnector in concert with a solid bump.

[Old School 611]

Hmm .. I can see that going badly depending on the condition and engagement of the disconnector in concert with a solid bump.

 

Vlad- no change to the operation of the disconnector at all.

[JonF 79]

It turns out that i have a few issues preventing me from even trying this trick. First, my receiver isn't even drilled all the way through. Secondly, my hammer/trigger was tuned by Bill Springfield and the trigger has a small overtravel bump welded on effectively doing the same thing, although non adjustable.

[Vlad G 345]

Hmm ..

Vlad- no change to the operation of the disconnector at all.

 

Hmm, how could it not be? It puts pressure on the trigger "bar" moving its rear upwards, right? That means that the relationship between disconnector and trigger is now different, when the disconnector engages the hammer. More importanly, if that screw drifts, the trigger may not move enough forward to let the disconnector come off the hammer?

[Steve_G 51]

How do the jard's stack up? I'd like a nice 2-3lb single stage trigger for use with a 22LR upper for steel challenge but it has to have sufficient hammer spring tension to ignite the 22. My current springfield speed hammer/jp yellow fails to ignite all 22's with my CMMG bolt nearly 100% of the time.

 

Maybe change the hammer. I have a cheap CMMG LPK in my dedicated .22 with J&P yellow springs and have not had any issues. Only 500 rounds so far but, flawless.

[Old School 611]

Hmm ..

 

 

Hmm, how could it not be? It puts pressure on the trigger "bar" moving its rear upwards, right? That means that the relationship between disconnector and trigger is now different, when the disconnector engages the hammer. More importanly, if that screw drifts, the trigger may not move enough forward to let the disconnector come off the hammer?

 

Vlad just take a look at how much travel the disconnector has. Alot and you are moving the trigger in the direction to make it hook-up all the more....So it always is going to grab. The screw drifting? It would have to drift up against gravity and it's lock tighted. So that is very unlikely.

[Old School 611]

It turns out that i have a few issues preventing me from even trying this trick. First, my receiver isn't even drilled all the way through. Secondly, my hammer/trigger was tuned by Bill Springfield and the trigger has a small overtravel bump welded on effectively doing the same thing, although non adjustable.

 

Yeah I have one of his triggers laying around...Not impressed... That bump of weld is not to limit over travel but to reduce trigger/hammer engagement,

I used to drill the tail and put a set crew in but no more. You can carefully file off that hump or buy a new trigger, But if the bump works this screw device won't give you a better trigger.

[JonF 79]

Yes, you're right, i meant pretravel. I decided i'll just get a proper kit rather than try to struggle making this work. The JP yellow spring isn't igniting 22lr's and when i put the stock spring back in, it went to 6lbs on the trigger scale. It was 4 with the JP yellow spring and so even if i tried to JP Red spring, it might only be 5 lbs and i was looking for more like 3 at the MAX!

[raz-0 1,260]

The link doesn't work for me on my iPhone. I'm assuming it is the grip screw with another screw in it that can take out pre travel. It doesn't affect disconnector engagement or anything after the sear disengages.

 

You can take so much pre travel out that you can bump it off the sear. If you don't understand the at trigger mechanics thoroughly, and know how to do a good safety check for sear engagement, you shouldn't be messing with such things.

[JonF 79]

Ummm, i'm not. lol

 

Like i said, i'm going to ditch the Springfield trigger and get a non-adjustable Jard. Keep it simple.

[Old School 611]

The link doesn't work for me on my iPhone. I'm assuming it is the grip screw with another screw in it that can take out pre travel. It doesn't affect disconnector engagement or anything after the sear disengages.

 

You can take so much pre travel out that you can bump it off the sear. If you don't understand the at trigger mechanics thoroughly, and know how to do a good safety check for sear engagement, you shouldn't be messing with such things.

 

Raz - You can't take enough travel out to pull the trigger off the notch on the hammer because the top of the trigger tail hits the safety way before you loose engagement.

 

Now that being said... Whenever I mod one of my triggers in addition to normal safety checks I "blue" the engagement surfaces.

 

I agree with you 100%, and will go farther, the majority of folks out there should not be messing with their triggers.

[NJdiverTony 27]

I would just drop a set of JP springs in there and call it a day. Give me a shout the next time you go to the range and I'll bring my AR with me for you to try out. Just a basic LPK and JP springs and it's great for a plinker.

 

Took your advice on this and figured I'd try it out, since it's a pretty cheap solution. I took my AR over to SCFGPA last night to test it out and it worked just awesome! I shot about 60 rounds of Lake City XM193 without a single problem, and the trigger pull is greatly improved. No light primer strikes and every single round went BANG. Another plus was that my grouping size was cut almost in half @ 100 yrds, since the trigger is so much better now! Best $10 I've spent on my AR yet!