Maybe this is the reason for the ammo shortage!

[reloaderguy 30]

I just ran across this and thought it was interesting and this gets me to wonder this might be the reason why ammo is becoming hard to come by again. Makes perfect sense to me.

I posted this in the other forum but was told by a mod that you are not allowed to post links to articles.

 

 

Private Investigator Doug Hagmann said reliable sources told him that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) was preparing for "massive civil war" in America.

This was all in a radio interview on TruNews from May 2, 2012.

“Folks, we’re getting ready for one massive economic collapse,”

“We have problems . . . The federal government is preparing for civil uprising,” he added, “so every time you hear about troop movements, every time you hear about movements of military equipment, the militarization of the police, the buying of the ammunition, all of this is . . . they (DHS) are preparing for a massive uprising."

“It’s going to get so much worse toward the election, and I’m not even sure we’re going to have an election in this country. It’s going to be that bad, and this, as well, is coming from my sources. But one source in particular said, ‘look, you don’t understand how bad it is.’ This stuff is real; these people, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), they are ready to fight the American people.”

“What they [DHS] are expecting, and again, this is according to my sources, what they’re expecting is the un-sustainability of the American dollar,” Hagmann said. “And we know for a fact that we can no longer service our debt. There’s going to be a period of hyperinflation . . . the dollar will be worthless . . . The economic collapse will be so severe, people won’t be ready for this.”

[Kaiser7 33]

They're mainly stocking up on .40 cal ammo though. Not that I'd really be surprised if this were true. All mass murders in human history were perpetrated by governments after all.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm not surprised at all. Maybe this is why my buddy in the national guard is really at homeland security training and they gave the Camden story as a cover.

[Anselmo 87]

When a Doug Hagmann starts to make sense we are all doomed. The ammo shortage is caused by paranoia. People seem to love a reason to be paranoid and Doug Hagmann provides it.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I'm not surprised at all. Maybe this is why my buddy in the national guard is really at homeland security training and they gave the Camden story as a cover.

 

Your National Guard buddy is in Homeland Security Training as there is a need to have a percentage of the troops trained up in this area in case they are needed. No cover story here. Besides 40 cal has zero use fot the National Guard as they have no weapons chambered in that caliber. DHS has no vast arsenal ready to issue anyone 40 cal weapons.

 

This ammo contract is for purchases over several years. The amount is not out of line considering normal training and qualification needs of DHS. There also may be other agencies that piggybacked onto this contract.

 

Shortages whether they be gas, primers, or ammo are usually self induced and have no basis in reality. There was a toilet paper shortage in 1973 that was induced by a joke by Johnny Carson. It goes on.

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I understand that the ng doesn't use .40 they carry m-16's. I was referring to the thought of a civil war. The .40 is obviously going to homeland security. Also homeland security gives a lot of local pd's grants to buy stuff such as armored personnel carriers, m4's and plate readers. Maybe some of that ammo will be going to local pd as well. But either way that's a lot of ammo.

[Jon 264]

I understand that the ng doesn't use .40 they carry m-16's. I was referring to the thought of a civil war. The .40 is obviously going to homeland security. Also homeland security gives a lot of local pd's grants to buy stuff such as armored personnel carriers, m4's and plate readers. Maybe some of that ammo will be going to local pd as well. But either way that's a lot of ammo.

 

Please read this post by Griz: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/36159-ammo-shortage-almost-upon-us/page__view__findpost__p__482388

 

The ammo contract is over several years, and doesn't work out to all that much ammunition per officer.

[KpdPipes 388]

I understand that the ng doesn't use .40 they carry m-16's. I was referring to the thought of a civil war. The .40 is obviously going to homeland security. Also homeland security gives a lot of local pd's grants to buy stuff such as armored personnel carriers, m4's and plate readers. Maybe some of that ammo will be going to local pd as well. But either way that's a lot of ammo.

 

Homeland security encompasses almost a dozen Federal LE agencies themselves..the contract that Hagman is screaming about is for UP TO 450 million rounds of .40, not FOR 450 Million Rounds of .40, and its set to run over 5 years. It's a Single-point Contract that will probably cover ALL Federal LE, not just those under the DHS heading..it's easier, and CHEAPER for the Govt to buy through one Source agency, then disseminate through the rest of the system, this way you dont have 75 different contracts going through the GSA for the same exact thing. Oh and DHS usually doesnt supply firearms to departments, those are through the DOD Defense Reultilization Program, and consist of older weapons that are "loaned: to police agencies according to the number of Officers employed, unless there is a specific need, such as LA Post North Hollywood. The firearms are almost always M-16A1's, it's up to the departments to then put on new uppers and stocks if they want to make them M-4's...there WAS a time when M-14's were available as well.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

If its spread out its not so bad.

[Parker 213]

I think DHS is now the third largest Cabinet group in U.S. government. They employ more than 200,000 F/T employees. Their budget, scope and purview is mind-boggling. http://www.dhs.gov/x...-bib-fy2012.pdf

[nino 0]

Homeland security and army bought over 200,000 of 5.56 n other calibers. I have good friend works for ammo company.

 

 

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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x113xo

[dtown223 12]

Homeland security and army bought over 200,000 of 5.56 n other calibers. I have good friend works for ammo company.

This seems low?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were members here who had close to 200k

stashed

 

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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x113xo

[Anselmo 87]

Homeland security and army bought over 200,000 of 5.56 n other calibers. I have good friend works for ammo company.

 

 

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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x113xo

 

I thought it was 450 million for the Army and homeland security. 200k is a drop in the bucket. If the members of little old NJGF pooled their ammo we'd have 200k rounds of .223/5.56.

[PK90 3,570]

There is no ammo shortage, yet.

[Jon 264]

There is no ammo shortage, yet.

 

As already mentioned, the more of these threads we have, the closer we're coming to one. Another incidence where we're our own worst enemy.

[PK90 3,570]

Let the scare continue. It makes my wallet fatter.

[Jon 264]

Let the scare continue. It makes my wallet fatter.

 

You mean the "Inn's" bankroll, right? Cuz you sure as hell ain't hanging on to any of it

[Kaiser7 33]

Let the scare continue. It makes my wallet fatter.

 

So there's no scare Paul? I guess I'll come in, and buy some of those spam cans, and you can totally let them go for half price, right? XD

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Sorry guys, but it was only 22LR I stocked up on...

[GRIZ 3,369]

I understand that the ng doesn't use .40 they carry m-16's. I was referring to the thought of a civil war. The .40 is obviously going to homeland security. Also homeland security gives a lot of local pd's grants to buy stuff such as armored personnel carriers, m4's and plate readers. Maybe some of that ammo will be going to local pd as well. But either way that's a lot of ammo.

 

I started my military career in 1967, serving AD, NG, and USAR until I retired in 2009. About half that time was NG. Periodically, we had riot training. Never responded to a riot but we would have been ready. Most of HS training for the NG involves security for facilities. This can be construed as preparing for civil war but more likely will be implemented during heightened terrorist alerts.

 

I probably disappoint some but IMO there won't be a civil war in this country. Most Americans realize more can be accomplished using the Rule of Law vs armed conflict. If you're talking a civil war you have to have conflicting ideologies. The only two big enough to generate a civil war would be Conservatism vs Liberalism. Next you have to look at geography and if you look at an election map most of the land area of the US, and NJ for that matter is controlled by Conservatives. Liberals control large population areas, cities. When deliveries of booze, McDonald's and other essentials are disrupted for a few days liberals will give in.

 

Riots are another matter. There is always a possibility of those happening but LE has learned a lot since the 60s. Riots start and are usually contained within large cities. This is where the rioters reside and cities also contain concentrations of goods to steal. Rioters don't care that their actions hurt their communities they just want that HDTV, booze, clothes, and other things they feel they are entitled to. Most rioters are not armed. You also won't see say rioters from Newark go to Short Hills Mall because there is higher quality merchandise there. They prefer to confine their activities.

 

There is very good reasons for DHS to fund hardware for local PDs. I'll just address two things that people view as "militarization of the police". Armored vehicles have been used by NYPD since the early 70s. Nothing better to rescue wounded people in a barricaded gunman situation or create diversions. Having them available is just another asset. Yeah, I would have problems if they were used for routine patrol but they're not so let's move on.

 

M4s or M16s? SA for nearly all police missions but I'd go along with FA with proper training. Some haven't noticed that the bad guys are pretty well armed. A few years ago Customs intercepted an entire container of FA Chinese AKs that were destined for gangs in the US. Active shooter, bank robberies (like in LA ), terrorist activity, etc no reason for police to be undergunned.

 

I prefer the M4 as a standard patrol long gun.

 

 

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I have no problems with police having m-4's. I do have a problem with the drones though

[GRIZ 3,369]

I have no problems with police having m-4's. I do have a problem with the drones though

 

Why don't you like police with drones? They enable capabilities of an aircraft with sensors like FLIR at a fraction of the cost of a conventional aircraft. My concern with drones is airspace management.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

My concern is replacing cops with machines.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Why don't you like police with drones? They enable capabilities of an aircraft with sensors like FLIR at a fraction of the cost of a conventional aircraft. My concern with drones is airspace management.

 

I don't have a problem with the concept of a drone replacing helicopters or fixed wing aircraft to save money, however there needs to be rules that prevent the police from getting within a certain distance (overhead) of your property without a warrant. What would stop them from flying one 3 feet outside your window and looking inside your home, with new technology comes the need for new regulation.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm going beyond that. Drones start flying our skies and monitoring traffic and crime. They detect speeders, running traffic lights, stops signs, basic stupid traffic offenses. Tix are issued to registered owner and you pay the ticket or show up at court. The gov have facial recognition software so they can get you for non vehicular offenses too. Jay walking, walking and texting what ever. Summons are issued and you just pay. No descretion, no human aspect. Cops only show up for arrests(in their homeland security funded armor of course). Then there is no communications between citizens and the police. Justthat and them. that is big brother watching. You may say well you need cops to fly the drone. Well yes you do but 1 drone can deff cover more space then a cop in a patrol car. So then the numbers are cut. Your basically left with a couple remote pilots and an arrest team. Congratulations you just entered a police state. Yes it sounds far fetched but if you told me 20 years ago what was going on today I'd say you were crazy

[db1775 4]

There's all kinds of great operational reasons for covering the skies in drones. However, the thought of another dimension of surveillance in our lives makes me uneasy, though I cannot fully articulate why -- something just seems wrong about it, even un-American. As part of a specific, limited operation, I think they are fine, but as part of a continuous aerial patrol, that scares the heck out of me -- and I don't have anything to hide. As an American, I don't like the idea of people, corporations and the State looking over my shoulder. I already get enough of that with speed traps, traffic light cameras, modern direct marketing, GPS tracking and the near total surveillance of (or ability to surveil) all communications. Drones, designed for use against our enemies, seems to me to be the last straw.

 

The LE element here, which I respect greatly, can reasonably argue that it will make their jobs easier. But there is something that is really unsettling about them being used on our soil. In the wake of the Second World War, the government granted itself the power to erect the National Security State to deal with the Soviets. It looks like the government is granting itself the same power to erect some sort of proto-police state in the drawdown of our operations in Iraq and AfPak. I am NO hippie or OWS advocate. Far from it. But I don't think we can be too flippant in dismissing the possibility of serious civil unrest, or the ability of government/police to expand their powers and capabilites at the expense of the Consitution and our tradition. That is how we got where we are today. The irony here is that it has been the Leftist/Big Gov't policies that have been jammed down our throats for most of the past century that are the cause of the forces ripping the culture apart today. And, sadly, it will take vastly increased police powers, which the OWS crowd pretends to hate, to either hold it together or put the pieces back in order.

[KpdPipes 388]

Why don't you like police with drones? They enable capabilities of an aircraft with sensors like FLIR at a fraction of the cost of a conventional aircraft. My concern with drones is airspace management.

 

Cost, Support, Training, and around here at least, incredibly crowded airspace as it is..of course the idea that local municipal departmetns are going to be operating drones is laughable....we cant get authorization for funds to replace our radio system nevermind a frigging drone.

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Cost, Support, Training, and around here at least, incredibly crowded airspace as it is..of course the idea that local municipal departmetns are going to be operating drones is laughable....we cant get authorization for funds to replace our radio system nevermind a frigging drone.

 

NJSP and PAPD are the only PDs in NJ I know with air units. I know Newark got a helicopter few years ago bu don't know if they ever got it off the ground. I wasn't trying to imply that every PD should get one. I was reverse planning and brought up airspace management which would restrict LE use of drones in this area on a routine basis. All of those things you mentioned would stop the idea from getting off the ground (no pun intended).

 

So in general there are uses for LE drones just not in about 90% of NJ. No worries about them hovering outside your window or being used in routine enforcement missions.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Depford police have a hot air balloon

[BlueLineFish 615]

PAPD no longer has an air unit.