Police Captain said I can't Get an FID because of my Misdemeanor (Not Domestic Violence)

[Rav89 0]

Change your drivers license and tags to pa buy a gun your good to go; I have a misdemeanor on my record from Alabama (attempting to elude the police) I got a gun. But then again I bought my gun in Virginia. But that shouldn't be the case.

 

Not even an option. I would like to have an FID, but it's not that important that I'm gonna move then move again. I'm not even willing to fly to FL to expunge this junk, so obviously I'm not gonna move back and forth.

 

If you don't have a conviction, there is no criminal record to be expunged. An expungement seals a previous criminal conviction. The conviction would not be generally available, but it may still be viewable to those that matter in this case, such as police. You really have nothing to expunge in this case.

 

Regardless, this record should not disqualify you for the FPID and you have every right to apply for it.

 

I'm not sure it works like that. Even if a case is dropped, it's still there on the record. As for whether I have a right, I do, but they don't have to approve it. Even though technically they should.

 

A. You don't need to appear in court in NJ. You probably don't need to appear in FL either, especially if you were never convicted and it was a minor charg

Good to know. I'm gonna have to find out the specific details. Something I should have done 2 years ago

 

B. It's not up to you to prove you're not an alcoholic. It's up to the state to prove you are. Drunk on Spring Break in Florida is a lot different than 3 DUI convictions.

 

Thats good news

 

C. Since you've applied, you've applied. You can call up and cancel it. The chief could deny you before fingerprinting. The other option is that it just sits in limbo waiting for your fingerprints. My recommendation is to either cancel the application before you get denied or go through with the fingerprints and reference letters.

 

Ok, I'll make a decision by next week based on everyone's advise

 

D. When I appealed my denial, the judge told me that a lot of towns just don't want to be the decision maker if there is any mark against you. So, they deny and let a judge make the decision.

How did your appeal process go? Did you have an attorney or represent yourself? Anything you think I should know?

 

 

Thanks for the help everyone

 

Do you think it would be a good idea to speak/write to the captain specifically showing him the statue that says that only a Domestic Violence Misdemeanor disqualifies you?

[Ian S 22]

 

 

 

I'm not sure it works like that. Even if a case is dropped, it's still there on the record.

 

My point is that expungement seals the conviction. You don't have a conviction to expunge.

[Socom 19]

 

Not even an option. I would like to have an FID, but it's not that important that I'm gonna move then move again. I'm not even willing to fly to FL to expunge this junk, so obviously I'm not gonna move back and forth.

 

 

 

I'm not sure it works like that. Even if a case is dropped, it's still there on the record. As for whether I have a right, I do, but they don't have to approve it. Even though technically they should.

 

 

 

Thanks for the help everyone

 

Do you think it would be a good idea to speak/write to the captain specifically showing him the statue that says that only a Domestic Violence Misdemeanor disqualifies you?

 

Just hire a lawyer dude; he apparently does not want to approve you, as well as he doesn't know the rules you will get it trust me

[Malsua 1,422]

I'm curious as to when arrests turned into something the state can hold against you. I always thought you were innocent until convicted in court.

 

In college, I had a friend who was a pizza delivery guy. He was walking away from a delivery and a zillion cops arrived. He was detained, the cops went into the house and dragged out a few other guys and a bunch of drugs. They asked him why he was there "for a delivery" was the answer...the wrong answer and they concluded that since he had almost $300 on him that he had delivered drugs. He was arrested for dealing drugs. The cops simply wouldn't even let him speak. He sat in jail that night(sat), all day Sunday and was released with no charges on Monday when his boss appeared with him before the judge.

People can be innocently arrested for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Arrests should have NO WEIGHT in denying someone their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

[Rav89 0]

Just hire a lawyer dude; he apparently does not want to approve you, as well as he doesn't know the rules you will get it trust me

I'm curious as to when arrests turned into something the state can hold against you. I always thought you were innocent until convicted in court.

 

In college, I had a friend who was a pizza delivery guy. He was walking away from a delivery and a zillion cops arrived. He was detained, the cops went into the house and dragged out a few other guys and a bunch of drugs. They asked him why he was there "for a delivery" was the answer...the wrong answer and they concluded that since he had almost $300 on him that he had delivered drugs. He was arrested for dealing drugs. The cops simply wouldn't even let him speak. He sat in jail that night(sat), all day Sunday and was released with no charges on Monday when his boss appeared with him before the judge.

People can be innocently arrested for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Arrests should have NO WEIGHT in denying someone their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

Not sure about NJ law, but there was a Netflix documentary I watched a few years back that REALLY got on my nerves. It was about people were wrongfully convicted of murder and were on death row for 20+ years. When they were finally exonerated, they were released with basically no compensation. They received no assistance in finding a job since most had no work experience.

 

The worst part is that the government acknowledged they were wrongfully convicted, but it was still on their record. These people had to hire an attorney and pay $1000 to get their records expunged, even though they did nothing wrong.

 

Obviously this is a different scenario, but you get the idea. Just because you innocent, doesn't mean it's not on your record.

[Geek 4]

Apply for a FL concealed carry permit. :-)

[heaterbob 53]

umadbro? truth hurt? I have a misdemeanor in al on my driving record I moved to va in the navy got guns multiple guns. Now I reside in this crap state uh oh still with guns. nothing wrong with changing states nuff said go be a cool troll somewhere else heaterboob lol

 

sorry robertroll, I thought you were telling the guy to get a pa drivers liscence while living in nj to skirt the law, much like illegal aliens do, I guess I must have read it wrong

[Rav89 0]

I decided to just do it. I set my fingerprinting appnt for Thursday.

 

I'm still debating about whether or not I should contact el Capitan beforehand though. I don't wanna piss him off, but I fell like I'm gonna get rejected so it's worth a shot. At the same time, it's such a small town that I wouldn't want the police Captain to have a grudge against me. Not that I believe he would do anything wrong, but still.

[Regulator72 80]

Maybe when you go in for your appointment, if they mention that you will be denied again, it might be the time to mention that you have no reasons for a denial and (politely) let them know that you are not going away, if legal action is needed, you are prepared to do so. no threats, no attitude, be polite and respectful.. Like everyone else has mentioned, don't get discouraged if you get denied, there are people here that have fought it, and won, without legal assistance.

[Rav89 0]

Maybe when you go in for your appointment, if they mention that you will be denied again, it might be the time to mention that you have no reasons for a denial and (politely) let them know that you are not going away, if legal action is needed, you are prepared to do so. no threats, no attitude, be polite and respectful.. Like everyone else has mentioned, don't get discouraged if you get denied, there are people here that have fought it, and won, without legal assistance.

 

Yea, I can get a little attitude if I feel wronged/disrepected, but I never get smart with cops (or Professors) because I feel like if things get nasty they will always "be right."

 

What appointment are you talking about? I already submitted my application and I thought that once they receive my prints, then it's just a waiting game. I was thinking about going out of my way to politely remind them of the law

[NJDrew1 0]

I would share a copy of the statute and a letter from your doctor if they deny you, as a last- ditched attempt to get them to review your denial (assuming they deny), before using the same documentation if you appeal to superior court in your county.

 

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[Anselmo 87]

The Captain knows the law. He is being conservative and wants a judge to decide. I see no reason to talk to him. Once he's denied you he doesn't care if you appeal. Appeal and win and he'll process your FID.

[Rav89 0]

I would share a copy of the statute and a letter from your doctor if they deny you, as a last- ditched attempt to get them to review your denial (assuming they deny), before using the same documentation if you appeal to superior court in your county.

 

Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx using Tapatalk 2

 

I'm not sure what a Dr.'s letter would say. How can a Dr prove I'm not an alcoholic?

 

Like someone else said, it seems as though they have to prove that I'm an alchy, not that I have to prove I'm not.

 

The Captain knows the law. He is being conservative and wants a judge to decide. I see no reason to talk to him. Once he's denied you he doesn't care if you appeal. Appeal and win and he'll process your FID.

 

Good point. THough I'm not positive he even knows the law because it SEEMED like he thought I would get denied just because of a misdemeanor.

[Soju 153]

Actually, I doubt he knows the law as there is nothing that says one can simply deny you and "let a judge" decide. There are 8 very specific reasons for denial. If it is not one of those 8, he HAS to approve your application. The law is clear. This nonsense that they don't want to be the one to make the decision is foolish and without merit. If the chief of police cannot follow the law, he has no business being chief of police nevertheless any official charged with enforcing the law.

 

Here is the statue governing the issuance of an FPID. These are the only reasons for denial. Period.

 

 

2C:58-3. Purchase of Firearms.

c. Who may obtain. No person of good character and good repute in the community in which he lives, and who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this section or other sections of this chapter, shall be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, except as hereinafter set forth. No handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card shall be issued:

 

(1) To any person who has been convicted of any crime, or a disorderly persons offense involving an act of domestic violence as defined in section 3 of P.L.1991,c.261(C.2C:25-19), whether or not armed with or possessing a weapon at the time of such offense;

 

(2) To any drug dependent person as defined in section 2 of P.L.1970, c.226 (C.24:21-2), to any person who is confined for a mental disorder to a hospital, mental institution or sanitarium, or to any person who is presently an habitual drunkard;

 

(3) To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe for him to handle firearms, to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder, or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that he is no longer suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere with or handicap him in the handling of firearms; to any person who knowingly falsifies any information on the application form for a handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card;

 

(4) To any person under the age of 18 years for a firearms purchaser identification card and to any person under the age of 21 years for a permit to purchase a handgun;

 

(5) To any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety or welfare;

 

(6) To any person who is subject to a restraining order issued pursuant to the "Prevention of Domestic Violence Act of 1991," P.L.1991, c.261 (C.2C:25-17 et seq.) prohibiting the person from possessing any firearm;

 

(7) To any person who as a juvenile was adjudicated delinquent for an offense which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a crime and the offense involved the unlawful use or possession of a weapon, explosive or destructive device or is enumerated in subsection d. of section 2 of P.L.1997, c.117 (C:2C:43-7.2); or

 

(8) To any person whose firearm is seized pursuant to the "Prevention of Domestic Violence Act of 1991," P.L.1991, c.261 (C.2C:25-17 et seq.) and whose firearm has not been returned.

 

With that said, this of course is NJ, and they just happen to throw a nice little 'well really we can do what we want and have some standing' in the 5th (fifth) reason. Go figure they define specifically every other reason, yet leave the most vague one even more vague by not defining it.

[johnp 45]

You got a ton of good advice in this thread, the only one thing I'd like to add. Many NJ residents give up on their quest to get an FID because of all the bs hoops we sometimes have to jump through. DON'T give up, sounds like your local chief either doesn't know the laws or doesn't want to do the paperwork. Like regulator72 said, politely educate him on the laws and you should be on your way to getting your FID.

[Sigman 41]

If you don't have a conviction, there is no criminal record to be expunged. An expungement seals a previous criminal conviction. The conviction would not be generally available, but it may still be viewable to those that matter in this case, such as police. You really have nothing to expunge in this case.

 

Regardless, this record should not disqualify you for the FPID and you have every right to apply for it.

 

My point is that expungement seals the conviction. You don't have a conviction to expunge.

 

If you have an arrest, it will show up in your rap sheet unless it is expunged. To have a "clear" record, the arrest also needs to be expunged. For example, You can be arrested on several different charges and found not guilty. The arrest charges will show up in a background check unless they are expunged.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Bones, there are 7 very specific and 1 VERY vauge disqualifer. Who exactly is "not in the best interests of public health and welfare" that isn't already included in the other 7?

[Soju 153]

Indeed, as mentioned below the posted statute. And to answer your question, my guess would be someone like the police chief who would deny someone for that would fall under "not under the best interested of public {safety}." I also find it ironic that on the application itself it says

 

Are you presently, or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates or approves the commission of acts of force and violence, or which seeks to deny others their rights under the Constitution of either the United States or

the State of New Jersey? If yes, list name and address of organization(s).

 

Wouldn't say a police chief who denies someone an FPID or a judge that denies one a carry permit have to check 'yes' and then list their job, as they are seeking to deny you your rights under the Constitution of the US?

 

Though the question is rhetoric it is kind of like an additional slap in the face to you when you apply!

[Twospot 38]

If you have an arrest, it will show up in your rap sheet unless it is expunged. To have a "clear" record, the arrest also needs to be expunged. For example, You can be arrested on several different charges and found not guilty. The arrest charges will show up in a background check unless they are expunged.

 

Yes this. I am pretty confident this is called a reference. I also am confident you could contact an attorney in Florida that can write a letter to remove the reference to the arrest. It may cost you $300 but That will be worth it. Beats a plane ticket, $1000+ for an attorney to go to court with you.

[Anselmo 87]

Actually, I doubt he knows the law as there is nothing that says one can simply deny you and "let a judge" decide. There are 8 very specific reasons for denial. If it is not one of those 8, he HAS to approve your application. The law is clear. This nonsense that they don't want to be the one to make the decision is foolish and without merit. If the chief of police cannot follow the law, he has no business being chief of police nevertheless any official charged with enforcing the law.

 

Here is the statue governing the issuance of an FPID. These are the only reasons for denial. Period.

 

 

 

 

With that said, this of course is NJ, and they just happen to throw a nice little 'well really we can do what we want and have some standing' in the 5th (fifth) reason. Go figure they define specifically every other reason, yet leave the most vague one even more vague by not defining it.

 

A superior court judge told me in open court that the local PD can be conservative, deny and leave it to a judge to decide. I'm not talking out of my a**.

[Soju 153]

I believe you. It is very common for those in positions of authority to act outside of the law and make up their own rules. It doesn't mean they are right, or that their actions are legal. But in this day, the laws don't matter much if those who are suppose to uphold them don't do that...

 

I have shown exactly what the 8 reasons for denial are. There are no other conditions that allow the police chief to deny it and let a judge decide...in law that is. Reality is far different as you have noticed.

[Rav89 0]

So it terms out I'm a fool. I spoke via email with someone form NJ2AS and he brought it to my attention that the FID application form asks if you've ever been CONVICTED of a crime. I was not convicted so I had no reason to mention it on the form. I'm going to go to the local PD tomorrow and explain myself, and hope that they let me resubmit the application.

 

Either way, I would imagine that they would realize I wasn't convicted and still grant me the permit. Even if they do deny me, I don't see how a judge couldn't grant me the permit during an appeal.

 

Good news for me, although it was really stupid of me to mention it at all. I got fingerprinted today, so the ball should be rolling soon.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

You should expunge the arrest record in FL if only to get your mug shot removed from public domain. It is a great learning experience and a good introduction to DIY in handling simple legal matters for yourself and your friends. In NJ you'd be surprised how many agencies you need to involve. It doesn't cost much money, most of it is spent on sending certified RR snail mail. In NJ it is unusual to be required to attend the final court date for an arrest expungement. I looked thru Florida's application packet and it seems like is a lot less leg work than NJ but I'm not sure about the court appearance there. GFH can do your fingeprint cards if your local PD won't. Once you have your arrest record expunged you should wait a good amount of time and then verify that it's actually been expunged by the state and follow up with a personal record request with the FBI to make sure it's trickled down. You can also contact LexisNexis and other law abiding PII resellers to remove your information. There are shady companies that will never remove your information so don't expect 100% compliance.

 

I do not believe the NJ SBI will return a hit on your FL arrest record if you expunge it and give it enough time before applying (and didn't have an existing history with SBI).

 

It seems strange for a mere arrest with a disposition of dismissal to influence your ability to get a FID or permit to purchase a handgun. The only firearms-related permit application that I've ever been asked about an arrest is on the CT non-resident CCP application and on that you are permitted to answer no to an arrest record if it has been expunged in accordance with that state's law.

 

I just read your latest post and it seems this is not actually an issue. But I think it's always a good idea to get any records expunged/sealed -- for the same reason you should lock down your records at the credit bureau and annually check your credit reports and your records with the state, federal government and 3rd party companies.

[Bagarocks 36]

Getting your record expunged will do little for you. Expunging arrest records are for public domain removed/redacted only. Your employer, credit buearues or private enitities will be unable to view.

 

Law Enforcement of all kinds will still see your arrest record until the day you die!

 

Don take my word for it go get a free consultation with a lawyer and see fer yerself

[Anselmo 87]

Getting your record expunged will do little for you. Expunging arrest records are for public domain removed/redacted only. Your employer, credit buearues or private enitities will be unable to view.

 

Law Enforcement of all kinds will still see your arrest record until the day you die!

 

Don take my word for it go get a free consultation with a lawyer and see fer yerself

 

The judge told me that he could still use an expunged record as reason to uphold denial of FID. That is wasn't expunged to him so what you say is technically correct.

[Rav89 0]

So just an update. I received a call from the clerk requesting a certified letter from Miami showing the outcome of the case. I mailed my request to Miami PD over the weekend and I'm awaiting the letter.

 

I would assume that once I provide the letter and they see there was no conviction, that they will proceed with the process and issue me my permit. Hopefully that's what's going to happen.

[bry@n 195]

Good luck. I would also follow up by phone just in case.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

So you openly and voluntarily told your local PD of an out of state arrest you had without a conviction? LOL sorry dude

[Njgunowner 2]

As was already pointed out, being charged is NOT the same as being convicted. If the charges where dropped you don't have anything to worry about. An arrest record isn't the same as a conviction.

[NJScott 15]

I decided to just do it. I set my fingerprinting appnt for Thursday.

 

I'm still debating about whether or not I should contact el Capitan beforehand though. I don't wanna piss him off, but I fell like I'm gonna get rejected so it's worth a shot. At the same time, it's such a small town that I wouldn't want the police Captain to have a grudge against me. Not that I believe he would do anything wrong, but still.

 

May I ask what town you are in?