Questions about LEO Authorities on Private Property

[BCeagle 12]

That sounds like something a d bag would do

 

Noooooooooo, thats just turn about is fair play. You should learn the difference, the neighbor was the original douche bag and should be taught a lesson. She could have come over and rang the bell nicely, instead she involved the authorities.

 

If it was midnight, I can see calling the cops but 9:30, leave the kids alone.

[TheDon 3]

Granted.....fireworks are illegal....right?....play with fire get burned...

 

Again not a Leo but I see nothing wrong with their procedure...

 

To your point....if you were in their shoes and your type dog was charging you to ...protect its pack....what would you do???

 

Then you answer your question...

 

If I were in their shoes, I would have rung the front door bell. This was a disorderly person's call, not a criminal call.

My point was that their choice to lurk in bushes and to enter a fenced-in backyard without announcing themselves put them in danger.

And, what was really served by approaching the party from the sideyard gate in lieu of the main gate at the end of the drive way?

Again, the question was only about procedure. Not about whether they were justified or allowed to do what they did.

 

Questions already answered 100 times.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

I saw nothing done illegally by the police in this situation as its been described in spite of the critics.

 

Your speculation on the "peeping tom" scenario is interesting being you were hosting this event. I think you should give more thought that you could have been charged not only with possession of the fireworks but also contributing to the delinquency of minors and endagering the welfare of minors by letting them set off the fireworks on your property. There's plenty of people on this forum who believe cops should just enforce the law.

 

I would hazard a guess you were very upfront withh these officers and they decided to let it go at a warning. I think if you "said nothing" as many suggest you would either be in the county jail or out on bail. Saying nothing is no the way to handle everything with police. I'm glad you're not in jail for something stupid.

 

I'm not busting your chops only illustrating what could have happened.

 

Illegal and unneccessary are two different things. Snooping from the bushes? Why not just knock on the door? This was roman candles not blockbusters, not gun shots, etc. Could the police see fireworks being used? If they had to snoop around on private property to see whether or not fireworks were or had been used then to me that isn't plain sight.

 

Deliquency, endangering welfare of a child, are you serious? Less than 20 people were hurt by fireworks last year. How many kids hurt themselves riding their bicycles in NJ? This type of thinking needs to be eliminated, it's why we live in such a damn nanny state.

[blksheep 466]

Here is the thing you were breaking the law. Stop crying that the police were there because of it.

[blksheep 466]

Again there are always three sides to the story. Your version, the cops version and what actually happened.

[bhunted 887]

Procedure versus Original Call.... They were told it was fireworks, whatever. Could have been gun fire for all they knew.

That is what an unexperienced plaintiff may have reported it as. They never know what it can be prior to arrival and still have to approach with all cautions.

Just saying...

[2 trip_nick 0]

Really, when you think about it this is nuts. Fireworks? You knock on the front door and tell the guy to cut it out, Now! You don't sneak around his yard. It's a great way to turn a minor situation into a tragedy. He's lucky his dog wasn't shot. I gotta think that the cops were looking to catch underage drinking when they heard: party, fireworks, teenagers.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

If I were in their shoes, I would have rung the front door bell.

Not to be argumentative, but how do you know they didn't?

 

You were supervising the kids in the back yard. Was someone else inside that would have heard them ring or knock?

[Underdog 1,593]

Caller initiates a complaint, police investigate. Upon their arrival probable cause was probably obtained after hearing/seeing the fireworks from their vantage. If the officer had justifiable cause to enter the premise he was there legally. If the dog were to attack or pose a threatening situation, I would assume he would be justified in protecting himself. Its not what anyone wants to hear, but if the officer was doing his job its a sad circumstance. He certainly must feel threatened to be able to deal with the repercussions of discharging his firearm.

 

Sent from tapatalk deep within a bunker, lathered in hoppes and wrapped in tinfoil

 

I'm a dog lover and I agree with this. The law was being broken and the pet would have been put into an unnecessarily dangerous situation by the home owner breaking the law on his property.

 

Time and time again, people need to take responsibility for their actions. The OP could easily answer these questions without posting if he put himself in the shoes of the police officer responding and hearing/seeing the fireworks. If the officer had showed up based on the scenario that the fireworks had been done for some time, etc., then the officer should have responded (in my opinion) by knocking on the front door, but with the fireworks going on he has all the right to investigate the illegal activity.

 

As far as the suggestion of getting even with your neighbor, that is ridiculous on so many levels. The least of it being that you really don't know who you are messing with and what they are capable of. People have been killed for getting in a dispute over dog poop. Not to mention, you are potentially putting your family at risk by doing that.

[TheDon 3]

Not to be argumentative, but how do you know they didn't?

 

You were supervising the kids in the back yard. Was someone else inside that would have heard them ring or knock?

 

Tobi assured me that nobody came to the front door and certainly did not ring the doorbell.

We had a discussion about doing a better job watching the side yard.

 

Edited September 6, 2012 by TheDon

[BlueLineFish 615]

If I get a house call and hear all the noise in the backyard I am not going to bother going in the front. I am going to assume thats where everybody is and why waste time at the front door. Plus any situation I walk into I don't just run in. I get an awareness of the situation and see the big picture before I walk in. Threat assessment and situational awareness when responding to a call should be priority. That's why they were looking in before they approached. It's not being sneaky.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Really, when you think about it this is nuts. Fireworks? You knock on the front door and tell the guy to cut it out, Now! You don't sneak around his yard. It's a great way to turn a minor situation into a tragedy. He's lucky his dog wasn't shot. I gotta think that the cops were looking to catch underage drinking when they heard: party, fireworks, teenagers.

 

 

Wow great solution. Let's rewite SOP based of this insightful tidbit. This is not how calls are handled. Fireworks...illegal. Underage drinking .....illegal. Might not be the crimes of the century but it's illegal and must be dealt with. Either way the cops handled this appropriately.

 

BTW...I am not insinuating that there was underage drinking at said party. Just brought it up because tactics instructor above did.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

I'm not a "dog" person, you know, but I gotta tell ya, Tobi looks wicked cool.

[bhunted 887]

Fook it, let's get the hell off this subject. In the mean time. Great doggie as I said. But you really need to get him a Coyote to play with!

 

Tobi assured me that nobody came to the front door and certainly did not ring the doorbell.

We had a discussion about doing a better job watching the side yard.

 

[TheDon 3]

Fook it, let's get the hell off this subject. In the mean time. Great doggie as I said. But you really need to get him a Coyote to play with!

 

+1000

My questions were answered like 3 pages ago. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

I am tired of being accused of not accepting responsibility.

Edited September 6, 2012 by TheDon

[302w 83]

I would look at it as they did you and your kids a favor by letting you go. Kind of a no harm/no foul situation.

 

Now, if you were to get pulled over and they wanted to search your car for firearms or whatever... I would ask for a warrant.

 

Bottom line is, you were breaking the law, and a LEO let you off the hook. I would forget about the situation and move on.

[bhunted 887]

Here ya go Don... click it... Don't understand why I can't get them bigger...

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Illegal and unneccessary are two different things. Snooping from the bushes? Why not just knock on the door? This was roman candles not blockbusters, not gun shots, etc. Could the police see fireworks being used? If they had to snoop around on private property to see whether or not fireworks were or had been used then to me that isn't plain sight.

 

Deliquency, endangering welfare of a child, are you serious? Less than 20 people were hurt by fireworks last year. How many kids hurt themselves riding their bicycles in NJ? This type of thinking needs to be eliminated, it's why we live in such a damn nanny state.

 

You feel the police actions were unnecessary. See bhunted's post #98. The police did what they did to ascertain exactly what was going on. It could have been some pervert hosting a skinny dipping party for some teenagers. Yes stuff like that happens in good neighborhoods.

 

One of the reasons less than 20 were hurt by fireworks may be because they're illegal. The statutes regarding contributing to the delinquency and endangering the welfare of a minor are written so they have broad application. If one of your kids were there and one of the "20 a year" that were injured you might feel differently. Far from nanny state logic.

[woodentoe 14]

One of the reasons less than 20 were hurt by fireworks may be because they're illegal.

 

This is sort of a questionable position, with all due respect. Taking something dangerous and making it illegal minimizes it's danger to the public...like firearms?

[TheDon 3]

Here ya go Don... click it... Don't understand why I can't get them bigger...

 

 

 

[ROTFL]

Thanks for the photoshop work. I am so stealing this.

 

FYI, to embed, do not include as an attachment, post as "Image". But you have to uplaod to some hosting site. I just use facebook.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

You feel the police actions were unnecessary. See bhunted's post #98. The police did what they did to ascertain exactly what was going on. It could have been some pervert hosting a skinny dipping party for some teenagers. Yes stuff like that happens in good neighborhoods.

 

One of the reasons less than 20 were hurt by fireworks may be because they're illegal. The statutes regarding contributing to the delinquency and endangering the welfare of a minor are written so they have broad application. If one of your kids were there and one of the "20 a year" that were injured you might feel differently. Far from nanny state logic.

 

Pervert hosting skinny dipping party for teens. That's a pretty good imagination you have there. They could presume all kinds of sh*t doesn't mean it warrants action. Saw a similar thread, "hey Texas license plate, I have to assume he has guns in that vehicle".

 

I don't have time to dig up all the numbers but states in which fireworks are legal aren't that much worse injury wise. Two quick examples are Texas and South Carolina. Also, most of the injuries are insignificant, small burns, etc.

[bhunted 887]

No prob... Yea, knew that... but didn't want to put it anywhere because it's yours. Not mine to post publically. Good for a coffee cup photo maybe.. lol

 

[ROTFL]

Thanks for the photoshop work. I am so stealing this.

 

FYI, to embed, do not include as an attachment, post as "Image". But you have to uplaod to some hosting site. I just use facebook.

[Dan 177]

You feel the police actions were unnecessary. See bhunted's post #98. The police did what they did to ascertain exactly what was going on. It could have been some pervert hosting a skinny dipping party for some teenagers. Yes stuff like that happens in good neighborhoods.

 

One of the reasons less than 20 were hurt by fireworks may be because they're illegal. The statutes regarding contributing to the delinquency and endangering the welfare of a minor are written so they have broad application. If one of your kids were there and one of the "20 a year" that were injured you might feel differently. Far from nanny state logic.

 

20 people hurt a year by something, lets make it illegal? That's pretty crappy logic. The same logic anti-gun folks use.

 

The fact is that life is inherently dangerous. Lots of people are hurt by lots of things, legal things... every year. It doesn't mean the solution is to make those things illegal or to ban them outright, especially when lots of responsible people use them safely. Instead laws around penalties for misusing things for harmful purposes are A-OK in my book.

 

As in fireworks.... misusing them will land you in trouble. Like launching them off in a densely populated area with insufficient distances from people or buildings... not legal. But shooting them off in an open field with proper distances along with a fire extinguisher, A-OK. This is how it is in non-nanny states.

 

Same goes for using firearms, knives, bows, etc. Having them and using them safely is A-OK, misusing them in a way that is reckless or to intentionally cause unjust harm or damage is illegal.

[2 trip_nick 0]

Since when did kids shooting off fireworks become a "tactical" situation? Guess I've been a grown up too long.

 

One note to OP. My friend lost his right eye to a direct shot from a large bottle rocket. He sued the property owner and won a large settlement. I wouldn't let anyone shoot off 'works in my yard. Better to send the kids to the park (only in a state where it's legal, of course).