first precision rifle build

[Shane45 807]

Stick with a 308. It is the best teacher of drop and drift. Drop and drift are the real challenges of long rang shooting. Keep in mind that the 700 really isnt going to get you more distance than a properly set up precision ar. It only brings more energy to the target at distance. Also worthy of note is that gas guns require a very rifined shooting technique over a bolt gun and thus I would recomend you start your endeavor on the bolt gun side of the fence. It is more forgiving of input error.

[DTtuner 21]

http://www.gunbroker...m=326995213#PIC

 

Gorgeous.

 

Whats that black thingy on the front of stock, under the barrel?

[Shane45 807]

Looks like a spigot bipod adapter.

[BullzeyeNJ 104]

I would get a 308 Win in a Rem 700P or a 5R configuration. Match grade ammo is reasonably priced at about $1 a round (that was before the "sky is falling" hysteria hit). Very easy cartridge to reload for also. Lots of aftermarket "drop in" stock options too. If you grow out of it then you can sell it for a couple hundred less than you paid.

 

My first precision bolt rig was a Rem 700P and I still have it today. It shoots 1/4" groups at 100 yards with 168gr FGMM. Amazing for a factory rifle. Totally stock except for a Roedale Precision clamp on muzzle brake that I installed. Maybe I got an exceptional one but any 700P or 5R should should 3/4MOA or better out of the box. I'm not selling mine b/c it shoots better then some of my custom rilfes that cost alot more $$$.

[matyb123 0]

i know this is a wrong idea but i always dare to be different (and pay for it in the end lol)

 

what about the FNH 20" bull patrol models?

 

but all in all i may just stay with the 700 for ease of parts, info and reliability

[twong11219 0]

Those FNs are nice. Personally, I don't really care for the 20" barrel. Was looking at the 700Ps too. Again, nice configuration.

 

Cosmetically, my goal is to build an M24 w/o the M24 sticker price. Still learning the world of bolt actions. I see a slight difference in twist between the M24 and other 700s. 1:11.5 vs. 1:12. Also, it's a stainless barrel vs a carbon steel barrel. Not sure if the rifle grooves are the same or not. Just going from what I remembered seeing off the top of my head. Don't quote me on these.

 

1. Can you tell me what's the difference between a short action and long action? Is it something to do with case length? I assume 223 will be short action and 308 long.

2. The M24 uses an H-S Precision stock w/ adjustable LOP. For the guys/gals with adjustable LOP, how often do you actually use that feature?

3. Based on the type of scope you have and that everyone's got a 1000+ yd range in their backyard, is a 20MOA scope base a standard compensation for 1000yd engagement w/o overworking the scope turrets?

4.Do any of you use cheek pads?

5. What does it take to modify a 308 for another smaller caliber other than changing the barrel and bolt?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Since everyone's been leaning on 700 as the good starter for precision rifles, this would be the ideal post for questioning.

 

matyb123, hope you don't mind me asking on your post.

[JonF 79]

While the M24 is decent as a package, there are other alternatives out there at the same price point that have a better parts list. If you can find one in stock, Savage sells a variant of the 10 HSP AccuTrigger with a 5R barrel and a more target style aluminum bedded HS Precision stock. It doesn't have an adjustable butt-plate though but thats nothing a slip on pad cant' accommodate if you need it. Either will need a cheek riser though.

 

For your questions:

 

1. 223's are often a totally separate action/receiver since they are so much shorter/skinnier than 308 and similar centerfire calibers. Long and short generally refer to everything other than 223 caliber centerfire actions and it does refer to the overall length of the bolt and receiver in order to accommodate cartridges whose overall length is longer than a certain threshold. IF a cartridge is too long for a short action, it may not fit in the magazine, the bolt may not be long enough to feed/extract it and the ejection port may not be long enough to feed/eject cartridges, hence the difference. Specifically, 308 is a short action whereas most of the magnums (except for short magnums) and 30-06 are long actions. Theoretically, the shorter actions are more rigid than long actions so being able to use a short over a long is theoretically better and doing the same thing (ballistically with short mags) in a smaller package is often better. This is just the general 30,000 foot view of it though.

2. Adjustable LOP is very beneficial because we're all built differently. IF you are of average body proportions, it may just work for you out of the box. I have long arms and like a longer LOP so i always end up with an extended butt-pad at minimum. Adjustability also comes into play when setting up your scope. If the stock is too short, when finding your natural cheek weld on the stock, you may find it difficult to mount the scope in a neutral position where it supplies sufficient eye relief to all mag ranges if your scope is picky. Again, adjustability is nice but you often just set it and forget it so paying extra for complex mechanical stocks is a luxury IMHO when you adjust it once and thats it. On simple stocks, spacers or slip on extended pads often suffice.

3. 20MOA is great for 308 at 1000yds but you also have to look at the amount of adjustability in your scope elevation and ho much you have on the reticle. Big scopes with 30mm, 34mm and up offer more adjustability in the erector so they are easier to compensate for huge swings in elevation adjustment if you are goign back and forth from the 100 to the 1000 yard range. If you are truly going to shoot at that long of a range then by all means get the 20moa mount. If you're realistically going to be primarily at 600 and below, 0moa is fine though 20moa wont hurt. Ken Farrel sells 'tweener 5, 10 and 15 moa mounts to suit. Really be honest with yourself as to where you're gonna shoot, how far and your zero range and then take into account the amount of adjustability in your scopes elevation and its reticle and find the mount that best suits.

4. Unless you have a stock with an adjustable comb, a cheek pad is going to be darn near essential when you're using a 50mm+ scope perched atop your gun. Most folks will need about 1/2" give or take of elevation on a non-adjustable stock to get it to a nice natural comfy position where your eye naturally drops right into the scopes' view axis. Without it, you;'ll likely be looking at the bottom edge of the ocular and need to roll your head upwards which strains your neck over time in the long run. Having a good solid and comfortable cheek weld is just a part of proper marksmanship and with regularity and consistency of your body mechanics, you'll shoot much better and more consistently when you're not fighting the gun to be comfy.

5. Totally depends on the caliber you are going to and the platform you're using. Some easier than others, some conversions are impossible due to caliber size and equipment constraints. A good rule of thumb is that if your current config is a short action and the caliber you seek is also a short action, you should be ok. Same for long action. Keeping with a caliber that is of the same basic cartridge head diameter means being able to reuse your bolt/head and only swapping barrels.

 

And last but not least, buy a SAVAGE!

[tennturk 9]

Those FNs are nice. Personally, I don't really care for the 20" barrel.

 

You're right 20" is way to big. Just get a 16.5" Rem 700 AAC-SD and call it a day. And let me state this for the record...barrel length does not effect accuracy! Grouping was 5 rounds at 100 yards

[twong11219 0]

Hahahaha! Thanks for the amazing write-up Jon. That's the perfect food for the analytical brain of mine. There's a lot to consider. At the moment, I'm limited to 100yds. I hope to find a home one day that will allow me to stretch my legs.

 

I'm kind of working in reverse at the moment. I've been scope shopping and have been trying to trim down to a certain list of specifications. The scope would need to have very fine cross hairs with mil-dots, 30mm tube, =<50mm objective lense, no illumination. Still contemplating between fixed or zoom. Can't dish out over 1g for a scope so here's my list of possible candidates.

 

Steiner 5003 Predator Xtreme 4-16x50mm

Leupold 67405 Mark AR 6-18x40 Mil-Dot Reticle

Bushnell ET4305 Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50

Burris XTR 3X-12X-50mm

Trijicon AccuPoint TR23-2G

 

Kind of building the rifle around the scope. LOL!

 

klownpuncher: That's some grouping you got there. What's the bullet drop with such a shorty when you start putting that paper farther away? What glass you running?

[matyb123 0]

You're right 20" is way to big. Just get a 16.5" Rem 700 AAC-SD and call it a day. And let me state this for the record...barrel length does not effect accuracy! Grouping was 5 rounds at 100 yards

 

haha i like it! i thought the 20" was a lil large myself lol

 

does the brake do anything for ya?

[matyb123 0]

You're right 20" is way to big. Just get a 16.5" Rem 700 AAC-SD and call it a day. And let me state this for the record...barrel length does not effect accuracy! Grouping was 5 rounds at 100 yards

 

i know the barrel dosnt affect accuracy, only for iron sights to achieve a larger sight radius correct?

 

you have to tell me what stock is that!?!?! that is just a beautiful rifle!! oh and how much do you want for it

[tennturk 9]

Not sure on the drops yet. I just zeroed it on Sunday and that was my best group at 100yds with factory Hornady 178gr BTHP Superformance Match ammo. Once I get some hand loads worked up and chronographed I'll have better info. I'm pretty much going in blind because no one else shoots shorties with me lol. But as long as your scope base and scope can compensate for the drop there's no reason why you can't go out to 1000yrds with a short barreled rifle. I set this rifle up at a medium range "Pig Rig" to blast wild pigs on my buddies farm in Georgia.

 

The brake is a JEC radial baffle brake. I was on an internet adventure one night and ended up at TacticalMatches.com. Everyone said the JEC brake was good so I bought it lol and it really is amazing. Same with the stock. There's a guy in Texas with a CNC machine in his garage and he makes them. They run $750 and you have to call him to order one because he doesn't have a website and runs an HVAC business during the day lol.

 

Specs:

Factory AAC-SD

Timney 510 trigger

SWFA SS 3-9x42 MRAD glass

Seekins 20moa base

Badger low rings

Rock Solid Stock

JEC brake

AICS mags

[matyb123 0]

Not sure on the drops yet. I just zeroed it on Sunday and that was my best group at 100yds with factory Hornady 178gr BTHP Superformance Match ammo. Once I get some hand loads worked up and chronographed I'll have better info. I'm pretty much going in blind because no one else shoots shorties with me lol. But as long as your scope base and scope can compensate for the drop there's no reason why you can't go out to 1000yrds with a short barreled rifle. I set this rifle up at a medium range "Pig Rig" to blast wild pigs on my buddies farm in Georgia.

 

The brake is a JEC radial baffle brake. I was on an internet adventure one night and ended up at TacticalMatches.com. Everyone said the JEC brake was good so I bought it lol and it really is amazing. Same with the stock. There's a guy in Texas with a CNC machine is garage and he makes them. They run $750 and you have to call him to order one because he doesn't have a website and owns an HVAC business during the day lol.

 

Specs:

Factory AAC-SD

Timney 510 trigger

SWFA SS 3-9x42 MRAD glass

Seekins 20moa base

Badger low rings

Rock Solid Stock

JEC brake

AICS mags

 

where are you in camden county? i grew up in bellmawr... i could really use a mentor throughout this whole set up

 

you are close and seem to know a bit maybe once i get it all set up you could give me a hand in exchange for ammo of corse

[matyb123 0]

oh and PM me the garage gunsmiths info lol

 

(when u get a chance)

[matyb123 0]

Those FNs are nice. Personally, I don't really care for the 20" barrel. Was looking at the 700Ps too. Again, nice configuration.

 

Cosmetically, my goal is to build an M24 w/o the M24 sticker price. Still learning the world of bolt actions. I see a slight difference in twist between the M24 and other 700s. 1:11.5 vs. 1:12. Also, it's a stainless barrel vs a carbon steel barrel. Not sure if the rifle grooves are the same or not. Just going from what I remembered seeing off the top of my head. Don't quote me on these.

 

1. Can you tell me what's the difference between a short action and long action? Is it something to do with case length? I assume 223 will be short action and 308 long.

2. The M24 uses an H-S Precision stock w/ adjustable LOP. For the guys/gals with adjustable LOP, how often do you actually use that feature?

3. Based on the type of scope you have and that everyone's got a 1000+ yd range in their backyard, is a 20MOA scope base a standard compensation for 1000yd engagement w/o overworking the scope turrets?

4.Do any of you use cheek pads?

5. What does it take to modify a 308 for another smaller caliber other than changing the barrel and bolt?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Since everyone's been leaning on 700 as the good starter for precision rifles, this would be the ideal post for questioning.

 

matyb123, hope you don't mind me asking on your post.

 

you kidding i dont care! its not my post, i dont own the internet lol

[twong11219 0]

Hey, just trying to be courteous. Some ppl are sensitive about these things. LOL!