How is the S going to HTF?

[jackandjill 683]

I've heard mention of this Katrina confiscation thing once or twice.....what happened?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms

 

"...Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.^[80][81]

.."

[WVisHome 0]

Ummm....no.


That's firmly where the "From my cold, dead hands" phrase applies.


Unreal.

[Blacksmythe 71]

This makes me want to prep even more. After watching the new Red Dawn movie I went home and loaded all my AR mags and stashed them in an ammo can.

Oh shizzit I did the same thing with my AK!

[Blacksmythe 71]

This makes me want to prep even more. After watching the new Red Dawn movie I went home and loaded all my AR mags and stashed them in an ammo can.

Oh shizzit I did the same thing with my AK!

[ECShooter 0]

My bet is on EMP. I would rather have an old fashion nuclear exchange. One Second After and lots of recent articles have me thinking about this. But there are indeed a whole range of possibilities from natural to political.

 

Bottom line is safety in numbers: I vote for a NJGF meeting place and setting up a perimeter!! : )

 

(bring your food stock with you)

Not a bad idea! Regional meetings based on county would work out well. We could even apply for 501cN exempt status.

 

[WVisHome 0]

I fully support Operation GTFONJ, lol.

[jackandjill 683]

Ummm....no.

That's firmly where the "From my cold, dead hands" phrase applies.

Unreal.

Unfortunately thats exactly what happened and what will happen in a future event.

Its gets even more interesting with City denying ever confiscating firearms to contempt of court to continued saga until 2008 (well into 3 years) of not returning the confiscated firearms. That was well into 2 years after a federal law was enacted prohibiting the actions (with some exemptions).

 

Once your own city/state start to confiscate, it will be interesting how people plan to GTFO NJ with maze of other state laws and transportation restrictions.

 

BTW, the federal law enacted in 2006 prohibits taking your firearms with you if want Govt assistance in SHTF situation. Its also likely that you will be given a 'forced assistance' there by confiscating firearms, all using the law thats supposed to prevent confiscation to being with.

[thug the bunny 0]

Social events (and their sequence) will probably be similar with emp too. With grid out of  commission, lights out, no gas to pump etc , wide spread looting will probably kickin pretty soon.  Initial response from law enforcement (with all good intentions) will be to confiscate, including possibility of declaring all FPID invalid and firearm ownership and possession as "ineligible" activity, hence suspended.

 

Short term or long term, once basic ways of defending in chaos is taken , everyone (specially law abiding citizens) will be sitting ducks for the real thugs and physically powerful to rampage through.

 

That may be at the management level where LE interfaces with the politicians, but I'm not so sure that LE at the patrolman level will carry out such confiscations, except maybe in urban areas (like New Orleans). I know in my little town all the cops are pro-gun ownership.

 

However, if anything like this does come to pass, I'm on board with the 'from my cold dead hands' point of view...

[jackandjill 683]

That may be at the management level where LE interfaces with the politicians, but I'm not so sure that LE at the patrolman level will carry out such confiscations, except maybe in urban areas (like New Orleans). I know in my little town all the cops are pro-gun ownership.

 

However, if anything like this does come to pass, I'm on board with the 'from my cold dead hands' point of view...

As much as we like to believe, there are VERY few LE out there who is going to defy orders. In addition, there will be national guard, marshals etc just like Katrina to execute on those orders. See another story on what happens when an isolated LE stands up for 2A rights.  Moreover, the orders are going to come with proper (and logical) justifications of "controlling the situation in the times of not able to differentiate blue team from red team".

 

Anyways, SHTF in NJ presents special challenges to firearm owners and it may very well be of no additional use if you are banking on it too much.

[johnp 45]

I am preparing for a Canadian invasion.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

I fully support Operation GTFONJ, lol.

THere is no escape from nj. it's like a black hole. the gravitational pull is too great.

[jackandjill 683]

I am preparing for a Canadian invasion.

Dont underestimate. They succeeded once with the fake, online pharmacies :-).

[thug the bunny 0]

As much as we like to believe, there are VERY few LE out there who is going to defy orders. In addition, there will be national guard, marshals etc just like Katrina to execute on those orders. See another story on what happens when an isolated LE stands up for 2A rights.  Moreover, the orders are going to come with proper (and logical) justifications of "controlling the situation in the times of not able to differentiate blue team from red team".

 

Anyways, SHTF in NJ presents special challenges to firearm owners and it may very well be of no additional use if you are banking on it too much.

 

If the scale of the SHTF event is large, federal resources will be spread too thin to confiscate everything everywhere, so I still think that especially in rural areas it will be the local LE doing that work, and maybe they will have some empathy. Hopefully?

 

<<<<FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS>>>>

[Whiskey Reb 0]

As much as we like to believe, there are VERY few LE out there who is going to defy orders. In addition, there will be national guard, marshals etc just like Katrina to execute on those orders. See another story on what happens when an isolated LE stands up for 2A rights.  Moreover, the orders are going to come with proper (and logical) justifications of "controlling the situation in the times of not able to differentiate blue team from red team".

 

Anyways, SHTF in NJ presents special challenges to firearm owners and it may very well be of no additional use if you are banking on it too much.

The ability for the government to coordinate a confiscation policy will depend on the extent of the disaster. Again a Katrina example could lead to similar actions. IMO after a full emp society will break down faster than a full federal and state response can be mounted. Many local LE will be looking out for their own families. Besides what's the alternative? Throw up ones arms and say its no use? I rather plan for the worse and take my chances.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

If the scale of the SHTF event is large, federal resources will be spread too thin to confiscate everything everywhere, so I still think that especially in rural areas it will be the local LE doing that work, and maybe they will have some empathy. Hopefully?

 

<<<<FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS>>>>

they're only human just like everyone else. if they know they're getting a paycheck, they will follow their orders.

 

 our best chance of local le not confiscating in a situation, is to hope that the shtf badly enough that they said the hell with it, and are home making sure their own families are ok/safe.

[WVisHome 0]

The ability for the government to coordinate a confiscation policy will depend on the extent of the disaster. Again a Katrina example could lead to similar actions. IMO after a full emp society will break down faster than a full federal and state response can be mounted. Many local LE will be looking out for their own families. Besides what's the alternative? Throw up ones arms and say its no use? I rather plan for the worse and take my chances.

 

This is my thought....if S truly does HTF....this will be the case. Otherwise, it's not a SHTF scenario to me.

[jackandjill 683]

The ability for the government to coordinate a confiscation policy will depend on the extent of the disaster. Again a Katrina example could lead to similar actions. IMO after a full emp society will break down faster than a full federal and state response can be mounted. Many local LE will be looking out for their own families. Besides what's the alternative? Throw up ones arms and say its no use? I rather plan for the worse and take my chances.

And my point is,

a) don't underestimate ability of federal/govt response to deploy troops. They may not be able to provide real help, but they will be there to disarm.

b) don't ONLY focus too much on zombies and food. Pay attention to other elements such as possibility of confiscation and prepare for it too.

[Whiskey Reb 0]

And my point is,

a) don't underestimate ability of federal/govt response to deploy troops. They may not be able to provide real help, but they will be there to disarm.

b) don't ONLY focus too much on zombies and food. Pay attention to other elements such as possibility of confiscation and prepare for it too.

I understand your point. So what do you suggest?

[jackandjill 683]

I understand your point. So what do you suggest?

Donno. Everytime I see prepping topic, always lot of focus on food, focus on protecting from mob/zombies and stuff like that, but not much discussion around possibility of confiscation and potential solutions around it.

 

Those prepping shows involve either folks already living far from urban areas in isolation (with lots of food, bunkers and firearms) or where urban environment is involved , prepping is limited to lollypop defense (I am not kidding, fighting with lollypop).  So been wondering if firearms provide any real, practical defense in SHTF situation in urban environment.

[Cowboy6373 0]

Luckily I'm old enough that I won't be around for this and will already be dust that my family will load into shotgun shells and do a 21 gun salute!! 

[Whiskey Reb 0]

I think prepping is useless unless you can protect it.  One can have a years worth of food in the basement, but unless you can keep others from getting to it and shooting you and everyone in the house in the bargin its does not help much.  I agree the urban setting is the most challenging.  People will run out of food in a week to ten days and then will move out of major population centers. One person or family, even a well armed, will have little effect when the gangs go wilding. Thats why I suggested "safety in numbers" and some kind of collective security arrangement.

 

In the end it could be all for naught given the odds, but if (when) the SHTF I would at least like to have a reasonable plan (with others) to confront the risks. 

 

Confiscation is always a possibility, especially if the disaster is local.  But if [edit] say 30 + states are knocked out by an EMP I am more worried about gangs and thugs than I am about the powers that be sending out national guard  (assuming troop trucks have not been disabled, as well as any effective communication system) into every town in NJ and collecting firearms before total chaos rules the day. They will have much more on their plate to worry about.   

 

I sure don't like thinking about this, but I would feel just a tad better if I knew I could execute a plan if the worse should happen.

[phoenix_iii 0]

Just FYI, when it comes to confiscation, don't be stupid and get into a shoot-out.

 

Know what's on your NJ registered list, what probably isn't, and in-between.  

 

Who says you didn't FTF away most of your rifles recently?  Nothing.  You lost the paperwork.

 

Have some of your non-SHTF rifles to turn in.  Be polite.  Have ammo stashed too, that could also be confiscated.

[AlDente67 563]

So how does that work?  If all of my guns have been legally purchased in NJ, they must know exactly what I have in the house, right?  All that paperwork at point of sale doesn't go in the shredder, I'm guessing.

 

So if they sent a team house by house with a big list in hand, would they know exactly what they want handed over by serial number (or type and model, or whatever)?

 

What if in theory I had previously dropped off everything at my cousin's house in PA and nothing is left for the team to grab?  What about the terrible boat accident scenario?  Would they rifle through every inch of my house to check for themselves?  That could take days, as there are quite a few good hiding places, not to mention the Mossberg water-tight canister, good for submersion or burial.

[Babyface Finster 45]

If there is still enough order for a house-to-house confiscation of firearms by the authorities, the situation does not fit my definition of SHTF. 

 

In a true SHTF (complete and widespread societal breakdown) scenario, I won't be too worried about LE.  They will be in just as much trouble as the rest of us. 

 

In a more localized natural-disaster type of scenario, there will still be many very real escape routes.  If I were faced with a Katrina typoe situation, there is not a thing I own that I would stay here to protect.  If "normal" life still exists outside the region, that's where I'm headed.  Complete lawlessness and anarchy is unlikely in such a scenario, and certainly won't set in immediately.  It was quite possible to leave New Orleans in the days after Katrina if you were not poor.  Fortunately for my family, I have the means to get us out.   

 

I worry a lot more about some scumbag trying to jump me as I unlock my back door on any normal day of the week.

[Tack Tickle 0]

This is RIGHT on NickJC... A friend is a professor at Princeton and has been traveling to "Nelson's column" for 20 years doing research there. They say the wave that would be large enough to swallow the whole East Coast.

 

I think the concern is in the Canares actually........moreso than the UK....

 

http://rense.com/general13/tidal.htm

[Tack Tickle 0]

It actually all started when a group of guys in a lower class neighborhood saw another gentlemen getting beat down by a few policemen. They began firing at the police with a high powered rifle.

 

Now here is the craziest part of it all. They started the confiscation in the higher class neighborhoods and rounded up all their guns first and then pressed on to the other hoods.

 

They did not have lists of who owned what when they went house to house. 95% of the people let them in and gave them up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms

 

"...Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.^[80][81]

.."

[UNDERSCORE 0]

Kinda funny how this confiscation went about. Of course people are just 'doing their jobs'.

[djg0770 481]

aaaaand here we go again.

 

[mipafox 438]

 

Ummm....no.

 

 

That's firmly where the "From my cold, dead hands" phrase applies.

 

 

Unreal.

 

 

Not regarding you personally, but as a general statement, excuse me if I don't take that statement more seriously coming from the subjects of jersey than I did from the Citizens of Louisiana.

[UNDERSCORE 0]

   

 

Not regarding you personally, but as a general statement, excuse me if I don't take that statement more seriously coming from the subjects of jersey than I did from the Citizens of Louisiana.

 

If you are saying that people will just hand over their guns, I agree. It's coming. Soon too.