Sling attachment basics

[voyager9 3,434]

I'm thinking of adding a sling to my m&p 15or. And had questions on the attachment locations and sling basics. From my reading I think I want a basic 2-pt sling but having one that can be both a 1 or 2 point may be worthwhile.

 

I think for the front ill be ok going with a QD swivel attached to the bottom of the gas block.

 

I get confused on the rear attachment point though. For basic 2 point slings I've seen attachments on the buffer tube, the bottom of the stock or attached or wrapped into slots in the stock itself. Will any of those work for a 1pt sling as well? Or does it have to be a swivel attached to the buffer?

 

Thoughts or advice appreciated.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

While my knowledge of attachment points is limited. The only comment i can offer is about sling selection itself. I really like my Irene adaptive sling. It is a 1 to 2 point sling with mash hooks to switch quickly between the two. Its held up well through multiple milsim airsoft and paintball events, some setups i use are similar in weight and spec to real arms if that helps. I am not sure how many companies make them but i know mine is from mission spec .

 

http://missionspec.com/products/ias-irene-adaptive-sling/

[Zerosignal 1]

You don't want to be putting a single point on the qd socket at the end of your stock. You will be tripping over your weapon.

[voyager9 3,434]

You don't want to be putting a single point on the qd socket at the end of your stock. You will be tripping over your weapon.

I hadn't even realized there was a QD socket at the end of the stock. Though u can see why it would be unbalanced for a 1pt sling.

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

I use a Z-360 mount and convertable 1/2 point sling, both from Tactical Link on my Colt 6940 carbines. One QD goes on the forward rail, the other on the Z-360 mount, or optionally on the QD attachment on my stock.

Very pleased with this setup.

 

http://www.tacticallink.com/Z-360-Sling-Mount-GEN-2.html

 

http://www.tacticallink.com/AR15-M4-Convertible-Sling.html

[High Exposure 5,664]

Sling selection:

 

Avoid 3 point sling like a male prostitue with AIDS and a chloroform soaked rag. They are beyond useless.

 

Single point slings - They are not the end of the world and you can run them if you have to, but they leave a lot to be desired. They flop around when released smacking you in the groin (read balls), They offer no additional stabilization when shooting, and they move around making it difficult to retrieve the rifle after being released. And you can forget taking a knee or bending over to pick something up, your barrel becomes an instant lawn dart. The only place where they really shine is switching shoulders. It is a nice ability to have but other slings allow it too and without all the negatives.

 

2-point slings - the basic 2 point sling makes a decent carry strap, but is a horrible "fighting" sling. With a little ingenuity and elbow grease you can modify them to work, but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

 

Now, the Modern 2-point Quick Adjust sling - like the BFG BCAS or the VTAC - is where it's at. I have both types but I prefer the BFG VCAS as it has no loose running end. The downside to that being that it offers less inherent adjustment in the system. The Quick Adjust 2 Point slings have all the advantages of a two point sling - holds the rifle close/tight to the body when released, doesn't flop around when moving with a slung rifle, offers adjustable stability while shooting, and still gives the shooter the ability to switch shoulders quickly and easily like a single point system. Win - Win - Win.

 

Attachment points:

 

Getting the sling attachment points as close to the receiver as possible on both ends will set you up for success. You can use a Tangodown PR4, a Burnsed Loop, a MI Sling plate, a Magpul ASAP, whatever you like, that puts the sling as close to where the receiver extension meets the lower as possible. (I like the ASAP and the Tangodown PR4 for this. I have also used the MI version of the TD PR4 with good success.)

 

You want the front the front attachment point as close to where the rail/barrel meets the receiver as possible. Some rail systems - DD Omega, LaRue Tactical - offer sling sockets there standard. Other handguards options may require you to buy a sling loop (ACE and VTAC make good ones) or socket (IWC makes a good one for use with Magpul MOE Handguards and Gear Sector makes a great one for throwing on a railed forend) to place on the rail where you want it.

 

The further forward you have the sling, the more you can throw off your zero. I have seen a zero move by as much a 4" at 100 yards by a shooter tightening a sling while shooting.

 

Keeping the sling attachment point close together enhances the abilities of the quick adjust 2 Point sling. It offers more adjustment, holds the rifle higher on your body (very helpful if you are vertically challenged like me ) keeping it from banging into your knees if moving with a slung rifle or from turning into a lawn dart if you take a knee or bend over to pick something up. This setup allows you to switch shoulders like a single point sling, and keeps the rifle tighter to you so it moves around less when slung making it easier to recover. It also gives you more room/slack in the total system when reloading and clearing malfunctions.

[MidwestPX 172]

While having a convertible sling is theoretically nice to have, it's a very seldom used feature based on personal experience as well as what I've heard when talking to customers.  Single points shine in two situations: changing shoulders to shoot around a barricade and carrying a concealed PDW.  Vickers teaches a method to very quickly transition shoulders.  It takes more training to get the muscle memory down and it's a little slower than when using a single point but you get all the benefits of a two point sling when you're not changing shoulders to shoot (which is a pretty rare drill anyway).  

 

I recommend two point padded slings with QD sockets on both ends.  You can get out of the sling quickly if needed, you can trap the rifle against your body when it's not in use, and the padding makes keeping a rifle slung for eight to ten hours a day a breeze.

 

This is the setup I run on my primary training carbine (sorry for the shameless promotion but it's also to illustrate for the OP a setup that works pretty well):

 

Forward mount: Gear Sector Rail Mount QD Socket - Much lower profile than the Daniel Defense equivalent, rotation limited.  Alternatively, you can try the Fortis RAP which has a pretty small footprint too.

Rear mount: Fortis QD End Plate - This is one of two mounting points, the other is in the CTR stock.  I was previously using the Noveske version but changed it out for the Fortis to test their version out.  Holding up well and costs less.

Sling: Blue Force Gear Vickers Padded - The quick adjust tab makes transitioning shoulders much easier and faster.  Padding is generous to prevent fatigue.

[MidwestPX 172]

Dammit, HE, you beat me by four minutes  

 

You can see that HE and I train with the same instructors...

[voyager9 3,434]

Thanks guys.

So it sounds like the QD in the gas block is not a good way to go. I'm better off something built for the MOE HG I have that attaches the sling closer to the receiver.

 

Similarly a end plant QD attachment seems the consensus.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Vtac baby! love this sling... I picked it up the wide padded one off amazon for like 25 bucks... But it seems to have disappeared at that price.

 

I have mine attached an inch off the receiver using the magpul mount, but it will be replaced with the magpul QD mount when it comes (looks like it came out!), and then i use the swivel point on my stock at the rear, i have 3 points to choose from bottom rear, side rear, or the middle... no end plate option for me because the stock has it built in.

 

HE is right tho, i notice i had issue's shorting the sling with it mounted at the back of the stock.. I had a lot of left over material. might not be a big issue if your a stalky person or wearing gear.

 

I wouldn't consider any other slings at this point then a 2-point adj... I have mine set up so i can use it for support while shooting in 2 different ways and get it tight enough to run around with it on my back. you have enough slack to wrap your arm around it, and can get it short enough to practically have it planted to your back... nothing else offers that. and it takes a second to adjust it, pull the strap to tighten or pull the string to release it.

[High Exposure 5,664]

With the Magpul HG I really like the IWC option:

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/rotation-limited-quick-detach-sling/

 

If you have Midlength HGs which don't have a slot close to the receiver you can drill/cut your own (that's what I did) or you could try this:

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/qd-micro-installed-by-iwc-in-your-moe-hand-guard/

 

Another option is to use the MOE Sling attachment point: (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG504/51)

and cut the clips off of a Magpul MS3 sling. I did that for 2 setups. I hated the MS3 I had but really liked the attachment method. So I cut them off and put them on 2 BFG VCAS Slings using the ASAP plate for the rear and the sling moint linked above for the front. Works like a charm!

[voyager9 3,434]

Thanks again! Had just found the IWC moe attachment.

 

Stupid question on the sling itself. Do I have to get a special model that comes with the QD attachments sewn on or do I have to get them separately and attach them?

[MidwestPX 172]

Thanks again! Had just found the IWC moe attachment.

 

Stupid question on the sling itself. Do I have to get a special model that comes with the QD attachments sewn on or do I have to get them separately and attach them?

You can go either way.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The vtac i know comes with fasteners on each end that allow you to open up the loop and put what ever you want on the end. You could take it off and sew the swivel on. I think almost all slings come this way, you almost always have to buy the attachment points separate unless it specifically includes them.

[voyager9 3,434]

Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated.

[Mach16lt 0]

Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated.

Anybody know how much it would be to have someone switch out the end plate on my AR for one with a sling attachment?

 

Or should I just man up and buy a castle nut wrench and just change it myself?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It would probably cost the same as a wrench to do it.. probably a $20 job... maybe free if u know someone with a wrench already..

[MidwestPX 172]

Anybody know how much it would be to have someone switch out the end plate on my AR for one with a sling attachment?

 

Or should I just man up and buy a castle nut wrench and just change it myself?

If you get a castle nut wrench, be sure to get one that engages multiple notches on the nut, not just one.  I've deformed a few castle nuts, mostly on DPMS and Bushmaster rifles, engaging just one notch because the metal the nut is made of is softer (read: cheap).  

[checko 180]

Anybody know how much it would be to have someone switch out the end plate on my AR for one with a sling attachment?

 

Or should I just man up and buy a castle nut wrench and just change it myself?

 

I got a wrench.  It's really not to complicated. 

[checko 180]

Thanks again! Had just found the IWC moe attachment.

 

Stupid question on the sling itself. Do I have to get a special model that comes with the QD attachments sewn on or do I have to get them separately and attach them?

 

I'm gonna echo HE, Midwest, and Jack with regards to the 2 point slings.  I used a generic 1 point for my first carbine class and it was awkward and kind of uncomfortable.  I have since switched to the VTAC 2 points on both of my carbines.  I've got the normal padded version (as opposed to the LaRue version with the sewn on QD's) when they were on sale at SKD.  They came out to be cheaper that way.  I believe skd is 10% off of everything right now btw. 

 

As far as connection points go, I use the IWC mounts in my Magpul hg.  I have no problem with the middy guards to be honest.  I'm currently using the QD on the strong side of my STR stock at the moment, cause I havent gotten around to buying a QD endplate.  

 

If you REALLY want to be able to change to a 1 pt sling, IWC has these:

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/2-to-1-point-triglide-threads-into-your-sling-and-makes-it-convertible/

 

Just replaces the tri glide from your sling.  I have one and it works fine, but I don't really find myself using it.  If you do, I definitely suggest you use a QD point as close to the rear of the receiver as possible.  It is awkward otherwise.  

 

I can post some pictures up tomorrow if I remember. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

I got one of those IWC tri-glide sockets when they first came out and put it in my BFG VCAS. It works very well for its intended purpose, making a quick adjust 2-point into a single point.

 

The thing is, other than dry fire training on my own when I decide I want to try things (building positions, working around cover, going hands on, shooting a rifle with one hand, transitions, clearing malfinctions) with a single point sling I have never used it. When I have tried it out at home, I quuickly realized that I am right back to having all the disadvantages of a single point. I also noticed that by the time I have unplugged the front quick disconnect and fit it into the socket for the IWC single point adapter, I could have simply opened/loosened the 2 point sling and completed my desired task in much less time.

 

I also realized that I have never switched from 2 point to single point mode in any training environment - square range, shoothouse, combatives, sims, medical/first aid, arrest/transport, air assault, rappelling, or driving. Even with the option of going to a single point sling, the 2 point has always gotten the job down with more control, more accuracy, and more comfort.

 

It's funny though, even though I feel this way, I keep the adapter on my sling... Because, hey, you never know right. I may find myself in a situation where that thing really shines, or is the only answer to the issue at hand.

[voyager9 3,434]

How would something like this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00823A2LO/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/176-5189648-2299220?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Compare with a simple QD end plate? The price is higher (65 vs 25) but it may be better if installation is easier. I don't have a castle nut wrench or other tools.

[High Exposure 5,664]

If you are going to spend $$ like that look here:

http://www.skdtac.com/TangoDown-Sling-Mount-PR4-Ambi-QD-p/tng.207.htm

The PR4 is my preferred "clamp on" style attachment point.

 

Here is a other slightly cheaper option that I like and works very well:

http://www.skdtac.com/Midwest-Heavy-Duty-Sling-Adaptor-p/mid.306.htm

 

Plus SKD has a 10% off sale going on now.

[bhunted 887]

I use their stuff. Reasonable and tough. Might take a looksie here and at their slings...

http://www.tacticallink.com/Z-360-Sling-Mount-GEN-2.html

[High Exposure 5,664]

John, that's the exact part he posted

 

Try to keep up old timer

 

ETA: Before anyone gets upset, John and I are cool and he knows I am just bustin' on him.

Edited July 6, 2013 by High Exposure

[checko 180]

It's funny though, even though I feel this way, I keep the adapter on my sling... Because, hey, you never know right. I may find myself in a situation where that thing really shines, or is the only answer to the issue at hand.

I have mine on for that exact reason lol. I figure it does no harm hanging out on there.

 

How would something like this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00823A2LO/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/176-5189648-2299220?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Compare with a simple QD end plate? The price is higher (65 vs 25) but it may be better if installation is easier. I don't have a castle nut wrench or other tools.

To be honest if youre gonna spend extra $ you can just buy a $6 wrench. It isn't complicated to switch out and the wrench is the only required tool' other than a way to support your rifle I guess. I would prefer the attachment point to be as centered as possible.

[High Exposure 5,664]

The really nice feature about using a replacement sling plate instead of a bolt on doesn't apply on NJ. With the bolt on type sling mount you can not collapse the stock fully. With the plate, you still get the full range of stock adjustment options.

 

Also, the downside to the wrench is if your castle nut is staked, you may have a bitch of a time removing it without a vice block, which is another $40-$60. You also need to be careful to not lose/break the takedown pin spring that is back there. Then when you put it all back together you should be torquing it correctly when replacing the castle nut, and then you need to re-stake it.

[voyager9 3,434]

To be honest if youre gonna spend extra $ you can just buy a $6 wrench. It isn't complicated to switch out and the wrench is the only required tool' other than a way to support your rifle I guess. I would prefer the attachment point to be as centered as possible.

I think I'd prefer the end plate option simply as another learning opportunity.. Especially if the wrench is that cheap. I thought it was closer to $20. I did read though that some wrenches don't grip on the m&p-15's well.

[checko 180]

I think I'd prefer the end plate option simply as another learning opportunity.. Especially if the wrench is that cheap. I thought it was closer to $20. I did read though that some wrenches don't grip on the m&p-15's well.

I bought a rock river wrench from midway for $6 I think. Read reviews before you buy. Some of the Chinese "multi purpose" wrenches are out of spec and made of shitty metal.

[bhunted 887]

Heh.... Opps, ok... CRS sometimes... Or was it CSS.... Maybe both... Well then.... Consider my post an endorsement. They are good people. Spoke to them on the phone and discussed ideas. They never rushed me off the phone when chatting.

 

John, that's the exact part he posted

 

Try to keep up old timer

 

ETA: Before anyone gets upset, John and I are cool and he knows I am just bustin' on him.

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...