Do I need crimp die for .45 ACP

[MartyZ 697]

The question says it all.  I am about to purchase my first press and dies, will be starting with .45 ACP.  Do I need a crimp die for .45 ACP?  Thanks.

[Mr.Stu 1,943]

You will need to use a crimp die to at least remove the flare put on the case mouth otherwise you'll most likely have feeding issues. A little crimp goes a long way to prevent bullet set-back too.

 

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[lunker 274]

I got a Lee Factory Crimp die for my Dillon 550B setup because I was having problems chambering 45ACP bullets in 1911 match barrels. If you use a 45ACP wheel gun, it is a good idea too so that the round can build up some pressure before entering the barrel. I would get unburnt powder in my gun when I didn't use a good crimp for my Model 25-2. 

[JayWilling 33]

I crimp all my pistol ammo. I think I get less feed problems and there is often a flare on some of the cases. Crimping takes care of that.

[Heavyopp 167]

You don't necessarily need a separate crimp die -- you will get a crimp die built into your seater die

 

You can use them together as 1 unit,  seat and crimp in 1 stroke of the press or you can use them separately 

 

Seat 1st then re-adjust the die and go back and crimp

 

No real need for a crimp only die -- you'll get the combo die in the 3 die set

[Pizza Bob 1,490]

I'll just preface this with: It has been a long time since I've done any reloading. There are two types of crimp dies. There is a roll crimp die, which is usually incorporated into the seating die. Simply a shoulder machined into the die body that "rolls" the case mouth into the bullet cannelure or crimp groove. A roll crimp is most often used on revolver calibers that headspace on the rim of the case. Most die sets contain a roll crimp/seating die, regardless of caliber.

 

For semi-auto, rimless or semi-rimless cartridges that headspace on the case mouth (theoretically), a taper crimp die should be used. The opening in a taper crimp die does exactly that, it tapers - reduces in diameter the deeper into the die the round is forced. This swedges the case against the body of the bullet, which leaves a clean edge case mouth to headspace on the shoulder in the chamber.

 

Those of you that have been using the (roll crimp) die that came with your die set, for loading rimless cartridges, have probably not run into any problems because, most semi-auto cartridges actually headspace on the extractor, which holds the cartridge against the breech and allows for a firing pin strike strong enough to ignite the primer, rather than the actual case mouth.

 

You can over-crimp with either type of die, which will result in case bulging and a possible failure to chamber.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Shocker 151]

My personal experience is: seating and crimping in a single step is ok with modern guns (i.e. XD, Glock, M&P), NOT ok with finnicky 1911's. I got all sorts of FTF in my 1911 until I added a Lee FCD for final sizing and crimping.

 

If you're using lead you pretty much have to crimp in a separate step or you shave lead.

 

 

Bob, all the rimless cartridge die sets I've seen (limited to RCBS and Lee) have taper crimp dies, the mfr's should know if the case is headspacing on the mouth they shouldn't give you a roll crimp die. Only lunatics take their rimless cartridges and stuff them into revolvers...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

My personal experience is: seating and crimping in a single step is ok with modern guns (i.e. XD, Glock, M&P), NOT ok with finnicky 1911's. I got all sorts of FTF in my 1911 until I added a Lee FCD for final sizing and crimping.

 

If you're using lead you pretty much have to crimp in a separate step or you shave lead.

 

 

Bob, all the rimless cartridge die sets I've seen (limited to RCBS and Lee) have taper crimp dies, the mfr's should know if the case is headspacing on the mouth they shouldn't give you a roll crimp die. Only lunatics take their rimless cartridges and stuff them into revolvers...

 

The problem is that .45 dies can load a number of different cartridges, both rim and rimless. I agree do it in 2 steps for better consistency. And what's this about rimless in a revolver? I'm not sure i followed that.

[Shocker 151]

 And what's this about rimless in a revolver? I'm not sure i followed that.

 

I was taking a jab at Bob and his moon clips

[Pizza Bob 1,490]

@shocker - your experience is certainly more recent than mine. The only rimless case I reloaded for was the .45 ACP with lead bullets (H&G 68). The die set was a Lyman set with carbide sizing die. The seater/crimp die was of the roll crimp variety. As was pointed out - especially with the .45 ACP - a good number of revolvers were chambered for that round also.

 

Guilty on the lunatic assessment.

 

@JackDaWack - There are many revolvers chambered for semi-auto (rimless & semi-rimmed) rounds. These make use of moon clips, half-moon clips or double clips for accurate headspacing, since there is no rim. There is a shoulder in the chamber, for the case mouth, but since a revolver does not have an extractor, case length would have to be exact to be 100% reliable. Point of fact. most semi-auto factory ammo and brass is considerably shorter than max SAAMI spec, which is the length to which the chambers would have to be bored.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[MartyZ 697]

ok, thanks guys.  Next question, this is what my shopping cart looks like, I don't want to spend a lot but I want it to last atleast a few years, what do you think:

 

Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit

Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 45 ACP

Lee Breech Lock Quick Change Bushings with Die Lock Ring Eliminator

Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler

 

besides a reloading manual, what else am I missing?

[hiker88 22]

Have you considered getting a Lee turret press (4-die)? You can use it as a single stage or with an auto indexing (rotating) turret. A Lee Challenger single stage press is great but it is slow and tedious. The Lee Classic Turret (cast iron base) is about $ 100 but there's another 4 die Lee Turret press for about $ 70 with an aluminum alloy base. You might want to check youtube for videos.

 

I have a Hornady progressive press and single stage press (Lee $27 press) as a current set-up. I also have a Lee Classic Turret on order that I will be setting as a dedicated press for 45 acp.

 

BTW, I do use a separate taper crimp die for 45 acp loads.

[louu 399]

Dsclamer...I'm no expert on this subject, I have only loaded 490 rounds so far.

 

Get the Lee classic turret press like Hiker 88 said. Amazon has it for $97.

 

Dont get a "kit" because half of the stuff it comes with is junk, like the scale.

 

I got a Lyman 1500 scale from amazon for about $55. It works awesome.

 

You need a good caliper.

 

About the crimp die, if you get the Lee 4 die set for .45 the factory crimp die has a built in chamber checker so thats a nice bonus...

 

The most importatnt thing about reloading besides safety glasses is taking your time and reading lots of books before you get started.

[louu 399]

I want to add that I can do 50 rounds in 12 minuets on the classic turret to so you will not need to upgrade any time soon of you go with it.

[Mr.Stu 1,943]

+1 on the lee classic turret. You will soon get tired of a single stage if you plan to do any reasonable quantity.

 

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[MartyZ 697]

Looking online now, trying to find it.  Isn't it just SOP that when midway have a promo code, what I want is out of stock.

 

Ok, so if I don't get the kit, what do I need?

 

Turret press

4 Die set

Digital scale

Digital caliper (I have)

powder dispenser?

Priming kit?

[MartyZ 697]

How about the lee promaster 1000 progressive?

[hiker88 22]

Lee 1000 progressive comes with a "big headache" for free LOL

 

I know somebody who spent half of the time reloading on a Lee 1000 trying to figure out how to make it run. He had to give it away to get rid of it. 

[MartyZ 697]

looking at prices, I think i'll go for the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit for now and get a turret press in the future.  The wife only approved $200  

[hiker88 22]

Yup...you don't want to piss off the wife.  

 

Been married for more than 15 years... a happy wife means a happy life. I earned myself enough brownie points that my wife gave me my Hornady press and reloading goodies for Christmas a few years ago. 

[Heavyopp 167]

be sure to check midsouth shooters supply and also natchez for the stuff you're looking for -- midway isn't the only game in town

 

as for only spending $200 -- guess you're not getting primers, powder, or bullets

 

you don't have to spend a fortune but $200 Is really pushing it

 

I've been reloading since 1990 -- here is my idea of a starting setup

 

rock chucker  press -- it will never go bad, you will always have a use for it

 

a good scale -- doesn't need to be electronic just reliable

 

dial caliper -- once again doesn't need to be electronic -- learn to read the dial

 

carbide 3 die set -- I prefer Redding if available but most any brand will do

 

rcbs little dandy pistol powder measure 

 

lee hand primer

 

case de-burring  tool

 

that's enough to get started -- no need for chamber checker you can use your barrel removed from the gun

 

also a load book or 3 -- 

[Mr.Stu 1,943]

For Lee equipment, I couldn't find anyone better than these folks for price:

 

https://fsreloading.com/

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

@JackDaWack - There are many revolvers chambered for semi-auto (rimless & semi-rimmed) rounds. These make use of moon clips, half-moon clips or double clips for accurate headspacing, since there is no rim. There is a shoulder in the chamber, for the case mouth, but since a revolver does not have an extractor, case length would have to be exact to be 100% reliable. Point of fact. most semi-auto factory ammo and brass is considerably shorter than max SAAMI spec, which is the length to which the chambers would have to be bored.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

I guess that makes me a lunatic right there with ya.. love my 625.

[MartyZ 697]

Well i ordeed everything except for the tumbler on midway last night from my original list but i added the fcd as well. Shopped around and midway came out the cheapest with promo code, total $189 with shipping. I can wait on the tumbler for now, i have a home made one. The $200 limit was strictly for equipment not components. I have over 1,000 .45 cases that i have been saving and plan on getting powder, primer and bullets at Oaks on 3/29. Still need to get a reloading manual.

 

While on the subject, what powder would you guys recomend for .45 230gr fmj? I've read that winchester 231 is a good powder.

[T Bill 649]

Powder for 230RN 45 ACP?  Anything you can find right now.  Haven't seen W231 for months.  If I were you I would make a list of possibilities and see what I could find.  Hopefully a ball powder as it is easier to work with. 

 

Check Steve's reloading pages, note the powders and see what you can get.

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

[MartyZ 697]

The link is not working for me for some reason

[louu 399]

http://www.nereloading.com/

will probably be at the oaks show. He has winchester primers and TMJ bullets. Your lookin at 100 bucks right there.

 

The only way your gona get powder there is by getting there friday at 12:45. When you go in the entrance, turn left and go all the way to the end of that first isle. The guy in the corrner mighnt have IMR700x. You have to go there first because by 2pm all pistol powder will be gone. Its about 20 bucks. If you find any thing else you better play the lottery that night.

[MartyZ 697]

unfortunately I can't go on Friday, work is always getting in the way

[louu 399]

DOAH!!!

[Polak 3]

http://www.nereloading.com/

will probably be at the oaks show. He has winchester primers and TMJ bullets. Your lookin at 100 bucks right there.

 

The only way your gona get powder there is by getting there friday at 12:45. When you go in the entrance, turn left and go all the way to the end of that first isle. The guy in the corrner mighnt have IMR700x. You have to go there first because by 2pm all pistol powder will be gone. Its about 20 bucks. If you find any thing else you better play the lottery that night.

Where is there?