What qualifies as a 'second residence' for transport?

[Taipan 0]

Happy New Year everyone.

 

I saw a reference to legally transporting to a second residence in another post this morning.    Anyone know if there are specific requirements that must be met for relative's home to be considered a second residence?

 

Thanks,

[mipafox 438]

Two sections of 2C:39-6. apply, notably o. and p.:

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions.

 

o. This section shall not apply to people that don't get caught.

p. Kiss your ass goodbye

[vladtepes 1,060]

while I do not have any legal definition.. I would say a relatives house.. that you do not live at.. is not a residence in any way..

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I have 2 residences.  I own a condo in New Brunswick (where my dad is currently residing), and live with my wife in an apartment in Linden.  Both are my residences.  I get mail in both places.  Pay bills in both places...  That's pretty much what's considered a residence..

[GRIZ 3,369]

Happy New Year everyone.

 

I saw a reference to legally transporting to a second residence in another post this morning.    Anyone know if there are specific requirements that must be met for relative's home to be considered a second residence?

 

Thanks,

The issue is do you live there part time on a regular basis. Ownership or lease of the second residence is helpful but not a requirement. Your son or daughter can be away at college in or out of state. Most of the year they can claim their residence wherever they are going to school. When they come to your house for breaks and the summer that is their residence.

 

There are no specifics codified I know. If you explain your situation a better opinion can be given. IANAL but myself and others can give a more informed opinion with more details.

[Taipan 0]

Thanks for the replies.    My relatives live about an hour from me and there is a club near their home.   I'd like to join that club and shoot with them occasionally when we go to visit.    I thought the second residence might be a way to avoid a technical violation of the transport rules.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Thanks for the replies.    My relatives live about an hour from me and there is a club near their home.   I'd like to join that club and shoot with them occasionally when we go to visit.    I thought the second residence might be a way to avoid a technical violation of the transport rules.

Unless you live there it doesn't qualify. If I missed all the incidents where people were arrested for transport violations when they stopped at Wawa, the babysitter, for gas, to use the bathroom, to pick up or drop off a friend or anything else on the way to or from the range please direct me to them. Reasonable deviation is just that. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for doing any of those things.

[JT Custom Guns 958]

It is my belief that "Second Residence" refers to another place your reside 

either on a full time or part time basis (beach House, condo, out of state residence, ect.)

[Blacksmythe 71]

If I have a utility, tax or lease bill It is my residence. Works like a charm.. IANAL but never had a problem where this comes into play....only NJ

[Smokin .50 1,907]

The issue is do you live there part time on a regular basis. Ownership or lease of the second residence is helpful but not a requirement. Your son or daughter can be away at college in or out of state. Most of the year they can claim their residence wherever they are going to school. When they come to your house for breaks and the summer that is their residence.

 

There are no specifics codified I know. If you explain your situation a better opinion can be given. IANAL but myself and others can give a more informed opinion with more details.

 

^^^^100% correct Griz and thanks for posting!

 

And something else for the OP:

 

As a property owner, I can drive with unloaded guns from property to property, for the purpose of any legal private or business matter, and while engaging in such matters I can arm myself and execute a patrol of the property up to and including the perimeter.  One property or 100, it doesn't matter.  I do have to unload my gun(s) and toss them in the trunk of my sedan (no cases, boxes, trigger locks, gun rugs, bags or any other "packaging or encumbrance" is required).  In point of fact they can bounce off the spare tire and scratch the crap out of each other as they bounce together in said trunk, for as long as the trunk lid is locked shut the State of NJ considers my unloaded firearms to be "SECURED".....

 

Additionally, for the OP:

 

I'm going to ASSUME you have a NJFID for long guns purchase?  If you do, you may transport them anywhere (unloaded) in the State of NJ (except onto school grounds, Military Base or other Gun Free Zone), at any hour of the day or night, so long as they are SECURED (as in the above example).  So stopping at a relatives house for some sleep and a meal and then driving said long guns to the range near the relatives house is a completely legal activity.  It only gets "gray" when hand guns are involved, so if you don't wish to be in a technical violation of a stupid law, go to said range with your long guns collection and just borrow a hand gun while you're at said range.  Borrow it from your relative or make a previous arrangement for another range club member to meet you and be parked somewhere on the range property during the time you wish to borrow said hand gun, PROVIDED that such range sends a copy of the names of its' membership roster to the NJSP Firearms Unit on an annual basis.

 

So what all of this boils-down to is that there's more than one way to slice a banana!

 

Now the "standard" IANAL line........

 

And a Happy New Year!

 

Dave

PPC Match Director at OBRPC

[Taipan 0]

I'm going to ASSUME you have a NJFID for long guns purchase?  If you do, you may transport them anywhere (unloaded) in the State of NJ (except onto school grounds, Military Base or other Gun Free Zone), at any hour of the day or night, so long as they are SECURED (as in the above example).  

 

 

Thanks Dave.   Excellent excuse to buy another long gun.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Thanks Dave.   Excellent excuse to buy another long gun.

 

OR several, lol!

 

In reading thru your list of owned firearms in the signature line, it seems that you need at least a .30-30 saddle gun or 03A3, a Garand, as well as a simple Mossberg 500 or Remmy 870 12 ga. Pump with both a vent rib 28" for clays and a 18.5" for Miscreants in a hallway.  And an AR-15 of some sort just because.........    Man does not live by Mauser alone, lol!

 

And going along with what Nick (Krdshrk) wrote, here's something else to "explore":   As an EXAMPLE, if you wanted to bring your hand guns to your Parent's shore house on a regular basis, and stay in their guest bedroom, you might wanna consider having the simple landline bill or internet bill put into your name at their address.  This way when you visit a property that you pay a routine bill for (in your name), the guest bedroom becomes YOUR room at Mommy and Daddy's house.  So THAT is your SECOND residence!  Nowhere in the statutes does it state you have to own or rent said residence.  If it did, LOTS of unemployed and under-employed recent college graduates living at home would be GUN-LESS........  Merely an extrapolation of the facts, Joe Friday style.

 

And now the standard line, IANAL.......

 

It's mind-bending, isn't it, when you don't ADD anything to the written statutes that are already there?  Take care!

 

Dave

[MB24 37]

^^^^100% correct Griz and thanks for posting!

 

And something else for the OP:

 

As a property owner, I can drive with unloaded guns from property to property, for the purpose of any legal private or business matter, and while engaging in such matters I can arm myself and execute a patrol of the property up to and including the perimeter.  One property or 100, it doesn't matter.  I do have to unload my gun(s) and toss them in the trunk of my sedan (no cases, boxes, trigger locks, gun rugs, bags or any other "packaging or encumbrance" is required).  In point of fact they can bounce off the spare tire and scratch the crap out of each other as they bounce together in said trunk, for as long as the trunk lid is locked shut the State of NJ considers my unloaded firearms to be "SECURED".....

 

Additionally, for the OP:

 

I'm going to ASSUME you have a NJFID for long guns purchase?  If you do, you may transport them anywhere (unloaded) in the State of NJ (except onto school grounds, Military Base or other Gun Free Zone), at any hour of the day or night, so long as they are SECURED (as in the above example).  So stopping at a relatives house for some sleep and a meal and then driving said long guns to the range near the relatives house is a completely legal activity.  It only gets "gray" when hand guns are involved, so if you don't wish to be in a technical violation of a stupid law, go to said range with your long guns collection and just borrow a hand gun while you're at said range.  Borrow it from your relative or make a previous arrangement for another range club member to meet you and be parked somewhere on the range property during the time you wish to borrow said hand gun, PROVIDED that such range sends a copy of the names of its' membership roster to the NJSP Firearms Unit on an annual basis.

 

So what all of this boils-down to is that there's more than one way to slice a banana!

 

Now the "standard" IANAL line........

 

And a Happy New Year!

 

Dave

PPC Match Director at OBRPC

I could be wrong but wouldn't  borrowing a handgun be an illegal transfer of a firearm unless the borrower was with you.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I could be wrong but wouldn't  borrowing a handgun be an illegal transfer of a firearm unless the borrower was with you.

 

The hand gun's owner need only be on the physical range property.  Sorry if you looked at the totality of what I wrote and were confused.  If the relative loans the gun while being at the range, it's all kosher, lol!  Law doesn't say awake, asleep, not drunk, etc....it just states on the property.  Hell it doesn't even say the owner has to survive the entire time, lol!

 

It's all legal and listed in the exemptions.........

[MB24 37]

The hand gun's owner need only be on the physical range property.  Sorry if you looked at the totality of what I wrote and were confused.  If the relative loans the gun while being at the range, it's all kosher, lol!  Law doesn't say awake, asleep, not drunk, etc....it just states on the property.  Hell it doesn't even say the owner has to survive the entire time, lol!

 

It's all legal and listed in the exemptions.........

I wasn't confused. If he's physically there he's not really loaning him the gun. I interpret it as;

Loan - Here take my gun and go to the range.

Use - At the range with gun owner and he say's here use my gun.

Like everything else in jersey, nothing is clear comes down to interpretation and opinion. Alls good.

[munchie 0]

What about a boat?  I have a boat in a marina down the shore that I stay over on weekends during boating season.  It has a berth, galley, head and I pay electric bills monthly to the electric company.  Would it be legal to bring my handgun to my boat?  There's a range close by my friend goes to and it would be nice if I can just go there from my boat rather than having to hike back home.

[Taipan 0]

What about a boat?  I have a boat in a marina down the shore that I stay over on weekends during boating season.  It has a berth, galley, head and I pay electric bills monthly to the electric company.  Would it be legal to bring my handgun to my boat?  There's a range close by my friend goes to and it would be nice if I can just go there from my boat rather than having to hike back home.

 

I think a boat with a head and berth would qualify as a second home for federal tax deduction purposes, so maybe so.

[munchie 0]

I think a boat with a head and berth would qualify as a second home for federal tax deduction purposes, so maybe so.

 

 

Thanks, I'll do some more research on it to make sure.

[The brew guy 22]

What about a boat?  I have a boat in a marina down the shore that I stay over on weekends during boating season.  It has a berth, galley, head and I pay electric bills monthly to the electric company.  Would it be legal to bring my handgun to my boat?  There's a range close by my friend goes to and it would be nice if I can just go there from my boat rather than having to hike back home.

I've been wondering about this myself. The part that worries me is, what happens when you take it out for a spin around the bay? Isn't it a vehicle at that point?  

I think a boat with a head and berth would qualify as a second home for federal tax deduction purposes, so maybe so.

IIRC, a boat needs to have a berth, a head, and a galley (a hotplate may cover it) to qualify as a second home for tax purposes. At least that's what I was told when I first started claiming a boat as a deduction a couple decades ago. In my case, I can produce a lease for the slip (electric and water included), cable bill and boat loan documentation.

As I said, the problem may be that I can also produce a registration from DMV.

[n4p226r 105]

just don't bring your hollow points between residences

[GRIZ 3,369]

The problem with bringing your handgun to your boat is what do you do with it when you cast off and are underway. Your boat is now a vehicle and it would seem you would be in violation unless you were enroute to another state. If the handgun and ammo were secured you could be protected by FOPA. No problems if you have a FPID and long gun.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

The problem with bringing your handgun to your boat is what do you do with it when you cast off and are underway. Your boat is now a vehicle and it would seem you would be in violation unless you were enroute to another state. If the handgun and ammo were secured you could be protected by FOPA. No problems if you have a FPID and long gun.

 

And this, GRIZ, is why those Stainless Marine 12 ga. pump Riot Guns are so popular.  Yes, CCW permits for hand guns are needed even in Free States (within the State's jurisdiction boundaries).

 

Then there's going aboard a REAL boat that goes out more than 3 nm (the state's enforcement ends there according to sources I've read), and the Feds have jurisdiction for some things up to 12 nm, then up to 24 nm for other things and for drug smuggling and human trafficking, up to 200 nm from their shores.  There's even a lawyer sub-specialty that handles maritime law and has published same on a google search.  International Waters are 12 nm.

 

I guess things get a little murky when a retired LEO (w/ a Jersey RPO CCW) packs heat in NJ, and leaves on a friend's center console from Monmouth Co. and heads off Staten Island for fluke fishin'....then the entire Sullivan Law and the SAFE Act come into play, eh?  I would hope some professional courtesy comes into play too, as I can't see a RPO getting his ass locked-up because the engine on his friend's boat dies and they get a tow to Great Kills.... 

[GRIZ 3,369]

And this, GRIZ, is why those Stainless Marine 12 ga. pump Riot Guns are so popular. Yes, CCW permits for hand guns are needed even in Free States (within the State's jurisdiction boundaries).

 

Then there's going aboard a REAL boat that goes out more than 3 nm (the state's enforcement ends there according to sources I've read), and the Feds have jurisdiction for some things up to 12 nm, then up to 24 nm for other things and for drug smuggling and human trafficking, up to 200 nm from their shores. There's even a lawyer sub-specialty that handles maritime law and has published same on a google search. International Waters are 12 nm.

 

I guess things get a little murky when a retired LEO (w/ a Jersey RPO CCW) packs heat in NJ, and leaves on a friend's center console from Monmouth Co. and heads off Staten Island for fluke fishin'....then the entire Sullivan Law and the SAFE Act come into play, eh? I would hope some professional courtesy comes into play too, as I can't see a RPO getting his ass locked-up because the engine on his friend's boat dies and they get a tow to Great Kills....

 

Nothing murky about a retired LEO with a RPO permit. He qualifies 2x a year for the RPO so that would cover him under LEOSA anywhere in the country as long as he has his retired ID and a copy of his qualification. SAFE Act magazine limits would apply although LEOSA starts off negating all state laws except government owned facilities and private property.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Forgot to add, if you're boarded by Coast Guard or other Federal LEO past 3 miles they usually don't care what guns you have aboard. However, being a veteran of hundreds of LE boardings the first question will be "do you have any weapons aboard". Answer honestly as if they find guns they will wonder what else you are hiding. Keep in mind it doesn't take much for the USCG or other Federal entity to do a border search when you're on the water. There are also many state and local LEOS that are cross designated Customs Officers. That can do a border search also.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Thanks Griz^^^^^!