45Doll 5,877 Posted March 8, 2017 I will pose this question as succinctly as I can to anyone who definitely knows the answer. (In other words, you've done it or know someone who has.) If your primary home is in NJ and you have a NJ DL, and you own a 2nd home in PA and live there part time, can you apply for and receive a PA LTCF using your NJ DL on their application form? I scoured the county sheriff's website, and the application form asks for an address (which would be in PA) and a DL number and state, which implies it doesn't have to be a PA DL. I also looked over the PAFOA site but couldn't find a specific answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
302w 83 Posted March 8, 2017 You're SOL. Sorry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirk2022 43 Posted March 8, 2017 Probably your best chance for A reliable answer is to go to the Sheriffs office in the county that you have the house in. The answer you get from them will the answer you can go by. Or just apply for A NH Non Res permit, and be done with it. For now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted March 8, 2017 I will pose this question as succinctly as I can to anyone who definitely knows the answer. (In other words, you've done it or know someone who has.) If your primary home is in NJ and you have a NJ DL, and you own a 2nd home in PA and live there part time, can you apply for and receive a PA LTCF using your NJ DL on their application form? I scoured the county sheriff's website, and the application form asks for an address (which would be in PA) and a DL number and state, which implies it doesn't have to be a PA DL. I also looked over the PAFOA site but couldn't find a specific answer. I've done it FL and your DL is for identity and not residency. I don't see why it would be different in PA. You may have to produce some other government issued document e.g. tax document to prove you have a residence there but that may not be necessary either. People thinking D/L somehow is proof of residency are the same ones that think you can't buy a gun in NJ unless your D/L matches your FID, which is a law they in fact made up in their heads and doesn't exist. Call the sheriff if you must and let them know you are a multi-state resident. The amount of days is not relevant and do not answer any questions related to how many days. If you spend one day / year in PA you are a resident of PA on that day. The only situation where time matters is for tax jurisdiction. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted March 8, 2017 im in the same boat, my parents have a 2nd house for us in PA. Unfort the deed is in their name, but its actual ownership is split btwn myself and (3) brothers since we were young once it was built. I can have a rental agreement written up for the address if needed. I may take a trip to the Sheriff's office when I get some time off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 8, 2017 From all my reading a while back, you'd be best suited to find how to get a state issued PA photo ID. The challenge with that will be doing so without violating the REAL ID Act. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted March 8, 2017 From all my reading a while back, you'd be best suited to find how to get a state issued PA photo ID. The challenge with that will be doing so without violating the REAL ID Act.Some Enduro guy once told me. Umm, loose your license. Get a dupe. Give that when you claim residence in freedom. As far as I know you kneed a home state ccw to get a non/semi res in pa. Best to reside in pa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted March 8, 2017 As I said earlier it doesn't matter where your drivers license is from--it establishes identity and that you passed a written and practical driving test, nothing more. Moreover if you say you lost your license and get a PA without surrendering your NJ license you are committing a crime. Go to the sheriff, bring a utility bill and your tax bill and you will be fine. You cannot get a state issued ID unless you surrender your D/L. Let's assume you will be fine and go try it out and report back. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted March 8, 2017 Some Enduro guy once told me. Umm, loose your license. Get a dupe. Give that when you claim residence in freedom. As far as I know you kneed a home state ccw to get a non/semi res in pa. Best to reside in pa. PA is his home state when he is there and NJ is his home state when he is there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucin 923 Posted March 8, 2017 My brother in-law has a home in Lackawanna County. He went to the sheriff's office and they told him he had to have a PA drivers license to get a PA LTC. They even told him where to exchange it and come back and they would issue LTC on the spot. Friendly folks at that sheriffs office. He chose to get a NH CCW instead, for the life of me I don't understand why because he is retired and it wouldn't matter where his DL was from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 8, 2017 Don't talk to the sheriff's office, that's dumb. Unless you want to call them and tell them you have no OL and want to know what they require. You should be able to do that. But you think walking in without an OL won't bring up a red flag about residency? They know what you are doing and will check that first thing. Just get New Hampshire. Why is this so difficult? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted March 8, 2017 PA is his home state when he is there and NJ is his home state when he is there.Pa is not Fl and this is why we need national Reciprocity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted March 8, 2017 Don't talk to the sheriff's office, that's dumb. Unless you want to call them and tell them you have no OL and want to know what they require. You should be able to do that. But you think walking in without an OL won't bring up a red flag about residency? They know what you are doing and will check that first thing. Just get New Hampshire. Why is this so difficult? He has residency, part of the year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 8, 2017 As I said earlier it doesn't matter where your drivers license is from--it establishes identity and that you passed a written and practical driving test, nothing more. Moreover if you say you lost your license and get a PA without surrendering your NJ license you are committing a crime. Go to the sheriff, bring a utility bill and your tax bill and you will be fine. You cannot get a state issued ID unless you surrender your D/L. Let's assume you will be fine and go try it out and report back. You don't surrender your OL. You don't even need one, but it is easier if you bring one to DOT. They punch a hole on the expiration date and give it back to you. PA is his home state when he is there and NJ is his home state when he is there. I believe you are referring to federal regulation and ATF guidance that I brought up years ago. You will find that your mileage may vary with the Sheriff. They know exactly what is going on when a grown up walks in without a driver's license. Will some accommodate you? Perhaps, I don't know. Will some put you in jail for lying? Perhaps, I don't know. There is also a requirement to get a PA OL within 15 days of changing residency to PA. Guess where the Sheriff's first database search is? So which are you going to get busted for? Lying on the form or failing to change your OL to PA within 15 days? I have no doubt somebody, somewhere slipped through. If we didn't have NH, we would probably put together a list of Sheriffs and how they behave. But we have NH, so this is a bad idea. Buying guns from an FFL is one thing, lying on a LTCF application (or failing to change OL state) is quite another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted March 8, 2017 I'm going to call the sheriff's office tomorrow. I called today but got an answering machine. My opinion (which I can't swear has the force of law) is that your 'state of residency' does not depend exclusively on your OL/DL. I did research residency requirements for PA and NJ some time ago, and it's very clear there's a lot more than that involved. Changing your DL to another state, while everything else in your life (banks, doctors, another home, CC billing addresses etc.) is in another state speaks a lot more to 'state of residence'. You can Google that for NJ and PA and find it. The fact that the LTCF form has boxes for DL number and DL state would seem to infer that your DL may not be PA. Otherwise they wouldn't need that state box. Further, if I owned a PA home paying PA taxes and utilities, I'm a resident of PA. I'm just not a resident of only PA. If and when the time comes, I will apply for an LTCF with a NJ DL. If I'm refused, then I'll get a PA DL because all I have to show is that I have a home in PA and that I do live there. At least some of the time. I did note that when applying for a PA DL there is no requirement to state anything about your 'primary state of residence'. It's just that you can only have a DL from one state at a time. I happen to agree with Rob0115. Primary state of residence is only relevant to tax matters, including wills and inheritance. Please note that under no circumstance will I be lying (directly or by omission) about anything, either on a form or in person. I don't have to. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted March 9, 2017 If the tax bill does not work. Switch you DL to PA and get a NJ Boat lic with your NJ address. Best of both worlds. The boat lic works with NJ nics system so you won't have an issue buying guns in NJ if you need to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tunaman 552 Posted March 9, 2017 But you will have to take a class to get that boat license... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted March 9, 2017 Hey JFoster, thanx for that boat license tip. I'll keep that in my back pocket. But truthfully, I've bought enough NJ legal guns already. My direction would be towards firearms and accessories legal in 'most' of the rest of free America. Including some Title II items. I located the PA state statutes covering LTCF requirements. In brief, it says you must fill out the same form statewide (the one I described before) and pay your money. Nowhere does it say it requires a PA drivers license. Regarding residency: "If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city." Nothing about 'primary state of residence'. If you choose to read them, look at section § 6109. Licenses. Then I suppose, as in NJ, the question will be do individual sheriffs have latitude to demand a PA DL? You know, like all the municipalities in NJ and the NJSP follow the 30 day limit on Permits to Purchase? Or not! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boo 6 Posted March 9, 2017 Don't talk to the sheriff's office, that's dumb. Unless you want to call them and tell them you have no OL and want to know what they require. You should be able to do that. But you think walking in without an OL won't bring up a red flag about residency? They know what you are doing and will check that first thing. Just get New Hampshire. Why is this so difficult? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think 45Doll can legally carry in PA with an NH non-resident since he's a PA resident (albeit part-time) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted March 9, 2017 But you will have to take a class to get that boat license...Yeah it's an 8 hour class one Saturday out of your life for the boating safety certificate. That's good for life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted March 9, 2017 You should switch your license to PA and the your car reg and insurance. You'll save a ton of money and be able to get a LTCF. Kill 2 birds with one stone as they say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted March 9, 2017 What County? Schuylkill and Luzerne are the two possibilities. I've done a lot more research since yesterday but don't have time to write it up at the moment. The short version is it seems like individual sheriffs do (legally or illegally) interpret the PA statute as they see fit, specifically on the matter of the DL state submitted, and whether they require documents other than the application named in the statute. Also, there has been no court tested opinion on what constitutes a 'resident' for the purpose of acquiring a LTCF. There are in fact a number of threads on PAFOA about this. Finally found them through Google this morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted March 9, 2017 Then I suppose, as in NJ, the question will be do individual sheriffs have latitude to demand a PA DL? You know, like all the municipalities in NJ and the NJSP follow the 30 day limit on Permits to Purchase? Or not! Speaking of latitude I could not find a local FFL to sell me a pistol in NJ wth a Florida DL even though they new it as not against the law... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted March 9, 2017 Speaking of latitude I could not find a local FFL to sell me a pistol in NJ wth a Florida DL even though they new it as not against the law... Interesting. Well, some habits are hard to break. For comparison: The Luzerne County sheriff definitely states they want a PA DL. The Schuylkill County sheriff says submit the state form and my form acknowledging you know you'll be prosecuted if you lie. The Monroe County sheriff requires references to be from Monroe County, and a copy of the 'Berkheimer' tax document. Sure sounds like we still might be leaning towards a nation of men, not law. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted March 9, 2017 Speaking of latitude I could not find a local FFL to sell me a pistol in NJ wth a Florida DL even though they new it as not against the law... I've had no issues but have had to explain it to a couple of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 10, 2017 Schuylkill and Luzerne are the two possibilities. I've done a lot more research since yesterday but don't have time to write it up at the moment. The short version is it seems like individual sheriffs do (legally or illegally) interpret the PA statute as they see fit, specifically on the matter of the DL state submitted, and whether they require documents other than the application named in the statute. Also, there has been no court tested opinion on what constitutes a 'resident' for the purpose of acquiring a LTCF. There are in fact a number of threads on PAFOA about this. Finally found them through Google this morning. He's gonna be a Skook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 10, 2017 Interesting. Well, some habits are hard to break. For comparison: The Luzerne County sheriff definitely states they want a PA DL. The Schuylkill County sheriff says submit the state form and my form acknowledging you know you'll be prosecuted if you lie. The Monroe County sheriff requires references to be from Monroe County, and a copy of the 'Berkheimer' tax document. Sure sounds like we still might be leaning towards a nation of men, not law. They'll take references from Russia and they'll like it. What's on their website or some idiot tells you on the phone and what the law is are two different things. Guess what? They tend to follow the law. Except for some northerners that won't issue to non-residents because New Yorkers are A-holes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted March 10, 2017 He's gonna be a Skook My wife said I was acting a little odd the other day, and I told her I thought it was the onset of Skook State Of Mind. Then I started rapping uncontrollably. (I already drink primarily Yuengling, but no Kegerator.) Is there something equivalent if we wind up in Luzerne? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d450 1 Posted March 27, 2017 I know several people mentioned it but.... why not get a New Hampshire Non Resident? Its $100 check, application and right now about a month wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites