Can you buy an AK47 in New Jersey today

[Blackfox 1]

I'm just curious.

[hotshot 4]

yes you can....fixed stock..... welded brake.....no bayo lug.....wasr and the likes....

[Maksim 1,504]

and as long as it is not called an AK or has AK anywhere on the receiver.

[PK90 3,573]

and as long as it is not called an AK or has AK anywhere on the receiver.

I respectfully disagree.

 

IMO, the receiver can say whatever it wants. The law says "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are illegal to possess. It doesn't say "AK-47" or "AK-74". If one were to follow the letter of the law, Saigas, WASRs, SARs, etc., would all be illegal. And they are according to some manufacturers/importers, i.e. Century Arms and Classic Arms, who will not send those types to NJ.

 

The 1996 NJAG Guideline sort of gave 'permission' for the possession as long as the firearm met the criteria. Of course, if one were to call the NJSP Firearms Unit or the AG Office and ask if an AK-47 was legal in NJ, you know what the answer would be. If the question were revised stating that the AK would only have a pistol grip without the bayonet lug or flash hider, the answer would still most likely be the same. Further revision of the question to an AK clone without the evilness MIGHT result in a different answer.

 

The point that I am trying to make is that the law is a gray area when it comes to firearms and the NJAG Guideline only made it grayer, which may have made it harder to get a conviction for a violation. Good or Bad? Depends on the accused.

 

Here are your shades of gray as I see it:

- AK-47

- AK-47 with only a pistol grip and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 (or any AK clone) with only a pistol grip and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 with a thumbhole stock and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 with only a pistol grip, no other "evil features", and with a single stack magwell

- Saiga with NO "evil features" at all

 

illegal to legal?, black to white?, bad to good? Who knows?

[Maksim 1,504]

correct, the law is very grey in this regard. Just stick with Wasr's, AMD,s etc.

 

or go buy an AR.

[Mauser88 0]

Arsenal or Romaninan SAR's are very good. I'd skip the WASR.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Was thinking about a WASR recently but have decided to wait on any kind of AK until I move out of NJ.

 

My thinking is very much aligned with PK90's post.

 

Just too grey an area IMO. Yes, I'd likely prevail if legal action was ever brought against me for owning one in NJ, but I've decided that the risk of having to pay for legal representation isn't offset by the reward of having one.

[Lublin 3]

AR!!!

[Larain60 1]

Paul is correct above re. the shades of gray. The problem is that no one wants to find themselves too far into the "gray" area if some prosecutor wants to make an example out of them.

 

There was a case I remember reading where the court paid particular attention to a stamped name on the receiver / barrel... I think it was a M1 carbine.

 

In any event, stay as far out of the gray and get a saiga etc without the evil baby-killer features such as a folding stock... etc.

 

Good luck.

[Radek 73]

As we know, Saiga 7.62x39 in stock form is perfectly legal in NJ. You can then modify it (from "Sporter" configuration) so long as you are compliant with 922 (focuses on US made parts) AND NJ laws. NJ laws are more restrictive than fed.

 

In a nutshell this means one can make the following mods: (for in-depth do's/dont's details and discussion, check forum.saiga-12.com)

- US made PG (forward mod; Tapco, etc)

- US made HG (many choices with rails)

- US made butt-stock (Tapco, K-VAR, etc)

- US made Trigger Group (Tapco, etc.); fixes trigger slap as well

- US made Muzzle-brake, welded (not threaded; should not be a flash hider!) - I bought a US made Tantal (clone) Brake

- US made mags up to 15 rounds (Surefire / SGM makes them)

- US made piston rod (Tapco, etc.)

(As you can see, I am being cautious and more 922 compliant than I have to.)

 

You can get very close to an AK-47 configuration, without the AK name on the receiver/barrel. I didn't find any good quality WASR-10's for a reasonable price.

 

I am in the process of modifying my Saiga rifle.

 

If in doubt, don't bother making the mods.

[Guest]

and as long as it is not called an AK or has AK anywhere on the receiver.

I respectfully disagree.

 

IMO, the receiver can say whatever it wants. The law says "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are illegal to possess. It doesn't say "AK-47" or "AK-74". If one were to follow the letter of the law, Saigas, WASRs, SARs, etc., would all be illegal. And they are according to some manufacturers/importers, i.e. Century Arms and Classic Arms, who will not send those types to NJ.

 

The 1996 NJAG Guideline sort of gave 'permission' for the possession as long as the firearm met the criteria. Of course, if one were to call the NJSP Firearms Unit or the AG Office and ask if an AK-47 was legal in NJ, you know what the answer would be. If the question were revised stating that the AK would only have a pistol grip without the bayonet lug or flash hider, the answer would still most likely be the same. Further revision of the question to an AK clone without the evilness MIGHT result in a different answer.

 

The point that I am trying to make is that the law is a gray area when it comes to firearms and the NJAG Guideline only made it grayer, which may have made it harder to get a conviction for a violation. Good or Bad? Depends on the accused.

 

Here are your shades of gray as I see it:

- AK-47

- AK-47 with only a pistol grip and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 (or any AK clone) with only a pistol grip and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 with a thumbhole stock and no other "evil features"

- WASR-10 with only a pistol grip, no other "evil features", and with a single stack magwell

- Saiga with NO "evil features" at all

 

illegal to legal?, black to white?, bad to good? Who knows?

 

i respectfully disagree completely..

 

the whole reason for the attorney general letter was to make clear what substantially identical means.. ag-clarification-on-awb-in-nj-t126.html

 

part 1) New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

 

this is saying.. here in NJ we have a LIST of guns you can NOT own.. it ALSO says you can not own a firearm that is substantially identical... this means LITERALLY you can NOT own a) a firearm that is listed specifically OR b) a firearm that is substantially identical.. so what does substantially identical mean..

 

part 2) A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

a folding or telescoping stock;

a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

a bayonet mount;

a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

a grenade launcher;

 

it is VERY black and white.. a pistol grip saiga with no other evil feature IS legal.. why? well because it is not specifically listed (part 1) and it is NOT be NJ LAW DEFINITION "substantially identical" (part2)

 

i own two modified saigas and spent MONTHS on the phone with the state police.. and sifting through law before i did anything to them.. when you start reading into the law you make it confusing.. when you just read the law and take it at face value its MUCH more clear.. IS it listed? (part 1) NO is it substantially identical as per NJ law definition (part 2) NO then you are fine.. YES to either and you are NOT fine..

 

[PK90 3,573]

So are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? I can't tell from your post.

[Guest]

So are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? I can't tell from your post.

 

 

:mrgreen:

disagreeing about the gray area.. i think its actually pretty clear...

 

more so disagreeing that a saiga with NO evil features is a gray area.. a NJ legal saiga can easily be assembled without violating the law...

 

 

UNLESS when you said saiga with NO evil features.. you were referring to a converted saiga that IS pistol grip and you meant no ADDITIONAL evil features.. NJ counts PG as ONE evil feature so when you made that post i assumed you meant NO evil features as in the stock sporting configuration the rifle is sold in..

[PK90 3,573]

So are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? I can't tell from your post.

more so disagreeing that a saiga with NO evil features is a gray area.. a NJ legal saiga can easily be assembled without violating the law...

Why I say gray is because is not the Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearm?

[Maksim 1,504]

So are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? I can't tell from your post.

more so disagreeing that a saiga with NO evil features is a gray area.. a NJ legal saiga can easily be assembled without violating the law...

Why I say gray is because is not the Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearm?

 

Its an AK receiver bolted to a sporting stock. =) Made at the same factory as original AKs are.

[Guest]

So are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? I can't tell from your post.

more so disagreeing that a saiga with NO evil features is a gray area.. a NJ legal saiga can easily be assembled without violating the law...

Why I say gray is because is not the Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearm?

 

well thats the thing.. no its not.. its a saiga.. the reason i say this is because the fact that they allow the gun to exist in ANY configuration.. sporting.. not sporting.. means they do NOT view it as Avtomat Kalashnikov, the action of the weapon is not changed by part swap outs... the action of the rifle is the same before and after any conversions... if they viewed it as Avtomat Kalashnikov, then it would be banned even in the sporting configuration... the FCG is moved when put back to pistol grip.. but the actual action of the weapon firing method.. gas piston.. etc.. remains identical..

[Maksim 1,504]

and therein lies the problem. Lets put it this way, if the NJ prosecutor wanted to put the screw down on this, he can. Much like what is a permanently pinned magazine.

 

Its a very grey area and an arguement can be made either way.

[Guest]

and therein lies the problem. Lets put it this way, if the NJ prosecutor wanted to put the screw down on this, he can. Much like what is a permanently pinned magazine.

 

Its a very grey area and an arguement can be made either way.

 

 

how?

[Guest]

and therein lies the problem. Lets put it this way, if the NJ prosecutor wanted to put the screw down on this, he can. Much like what is a permanently pinned magazine.

 

Its a very grey area and an arguement can be made either way.

 

 

i think by permanently pinned magazine you mean stock? but i guess you could pin a large cap mag as well to be NJ compliant under 15.. but my understanding is you need to use something that can not be easily removed like rivets for example.. i see THAT as being a gray area.. i don't however see my Saigas as gray because as the law reads word for word.. its NOT a named banned weapon... and its not substantially identical as per the definition THEY have created.. it was a saiga.. still is a saiga.. so its NOT a named weapon.. ?

[Maksim 1,504]

by all means yes. I own wasrs and will probly pick up a saiga, however I would not be surprised for them to argue it is substantially same as a AK.

[Guest]

by all means yes. I own wasrs and will probly pick up a saiga, however I would not be surprised for them to argue it is substantially same as a AK.

 

 

they can argue all they want.. but in their OWN words you do agree that it is NOT?

 

and id definitely pick one up before you can't.. im really really happy with mine..

[PK90 3,573]

Thoughts?

Would you owned a US Carbine? It is named differently than the "named" firearm under the statutes, "M1 carbine type", and does not have more than one feature. How about a Ruger 10/22 Charger or a Kel-Tec PLR-16?

[Guest]

Thoughts?

Would you owned a US Carbine? It is named differently than the "named" firearm under the statutes, "M1 carbine type", and does not have more than one feature. How about a Ruger 10/22 Charger or a Kel-Tec PLR-16?

 

 

im not sure what you mean here?

[RoadOgre 0]

This thread is giving me a headache. Substantially similar could mean any Black firearm in the mind of the wrong prosecutor. I agree with PK90's earlier post. I think it depends a great deal on who is found with the firearm. Obviously a suspected gang banger would have a harder time in court. Bottom line is how much time and money are you willing to spend to defend your rights?

[Guest]

This thread is giving me a headache. Substantially similar could mean any Black firearm in the mind of the wrong prosecutor. I agree with PK90's earlier post. I think it depends a great deal on who is found with the firearm. Obviously a suspected gang banger would have a harder time in court. Bottom line is how much time and money are you willing to spend to defend your rights?

 

 

can you buy an ak47 in NJ.. NO

can you buy a gun identical to an AK... NO

 

can you buy a Saiga in NJ.. YES

can you buy other rifles that are SIMILAR to an AK... YES

[BadBul 0]

illegal to legal?, black to white?, bad to good? Who knows?

 

 

And I don't want to be the one to find out! :mrgreen:

[lunker 274]

This thread has been popping up in my head every time I visit Brick Armory. They have several AK clones up on the wall for sale. I don't think they are Saigas. I'd sure like to shoot one some time.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Was thinking about a WASR recently but have decided to wait on any kind of AK until I move out of NJ.

 

My thinking is very much aligned with PK90's post.

 

Just too grey an area IMO. Yes, I'd likely prevail if legal action was ever brought against me for owning one in NJ, but I've decided that the risk of having to pay for legal representation isn't offset by the reward of having one.

 

but they sure are fun to shoot! I'd take an ak over an AR any day.. *Flame suit on!* :oops: :oops:

[hotshot 4]

hagues has them for sale but i wouldn't pay that crazy price of 1k

[Chad 3]

hagues has them for sale but i wouldn't pay that crazy price of 1k

 

GO TO PA!

 

$500-$600 range.