E-bike guidance/recommendations?

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

For a while now, and for a multitude of reasons & potential purposes (including a shooting-adjacent reason), I've been noodling on getting a new bike. I'm not at all close to a decision yet, but I do see myself getting something hopefully within the next year.  I have an old Huffy that I recently pulled out of my walkout basement (hadn't ridden it in years) just to test it out... but as I suspected, I swiftly confirmed: "Damn, I can't ride this thing anymore!"  Among other issues, it just felt waaaay too tall for me... too difficult to negotiate with my (now) very bad knees... and frankly, riding it felt very much like a disaster-in-waiting! (For the record, I'm not a graceful athletic type, to say the least, lol...so I was not surprised by this rather sorry conclusion).

I had even looked at recumbent bikes not long ago (easy to ride, easy on the joints), but the problem there is they are just too large and cumbersome. Ideally, I'm looking for a bike that's small and transportable - that I can get either into my car (by folding?) or onto my car (using an installed rack?). And I must say, I'm increasingly attracted to the idea of an e-bike. If I'm peddling around, far from my house or car, and a knee suddenly starts to act up, for instance... well, sheesh, it's nice to think I could just hit that throttle and "buzz" right back to wherever I need to be. They seem to be the best of both worlds.... peddling around when you want to, but also power assist when you want that.

Most recently, I am eyeballing the shorter "step-through" e-bikes with 20-inch "fat" tires, and I'm very intrigued by some of the folding ones. NJGF is a big enough audience that I figure someone out there might have some interesting knowledge/insights on the following issues....

My questions are:

• Tech (of any kind) is one of the rare categories that often DROPS in price over time (think: calculators, laptops, etc.) I'm wondering if a purchasing delay would be on my side? What's your best guess? Do you think these e-bikes are going to get cheaper or more expensive over time? Also, is there a best season to buy?
• I do worry about the ones that have caught fire (big discussion on electric vehicles in general in the 1A Lounge, and I know that's a problem, albeit a rare one). It may be rare, but when consequences are potentially catastrophic, one does need to consider! I don't have a garage, so would either need to store in an outdoor storage cabinet - or - in my walkout basement. Any firemen out there with recommendations? Do we know if those fires happened spontaneously when the bike was just sitting there? Or only when it was being charged? How to mitigate? Charge the battery outside, away from the house with an extension cord? Store the whole bike outside in a cabinet? Or pull it into the basement but remove the battery and store THAT inside a fireproof container? (or perhaps wrapped in welding fabric)? Other thoughts/ideas?
• Are there known brands out there that are considered better than others? The brand names I'm seeing mean nothing to me yet.
• I've never had a rack of any type on my car (2000 Audi A4)... is it safer (in terms of theft) to have a folding model INSIDE the car and out of sight? Or do those racks with appropriate locks dissuade most bike thieves?
• Any other thoughts/suggestions? Any input is much appreciated!  These are costly items... I really want to do my due diligence and make a sound purchase whenever I'm ready.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I don't know of any brands but I would think a folding one would be better - out of sight much better than exposed even if locked.

Lipo charging - Use a battery bag.

https://www.amazon.com/Fireproof-Accessories-Explosionproof-transport-19-2x5-5x5-9Inches/dp/B0C4LWCTTM/

[Displaced Texan 11,751]

Trek is a pretty solid brand of bike. 
 

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/electric-bikes/c/B507/

 

They even come in colors that you might like (although, no leopard print)! 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

• Tech (of any kind) is one of the rare categories that often DROPS in price over time (think: calculators, laptops, etc.) I'm wondering if a purchasing delay would be on my side? What's your best guess? Do you think these e-bikes are going to get cheaper or more expensive over time? Also, is there a best season to buy?

Now might be a good time - Just bought my first 2 e-bikes about a month ago after watching "the market" for a while.  There are prices dropping everywhere.

A couple places to watch for deals:

https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?q=e-bike+ebike&searcharea=deals&searchin=first&isUserSearch=1

https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/15sh53w/monthly_rebikes_promo_thread/

• I do worry about the ones that have caught fire (big discussion on electric vehicles in general in the 1A Lounge, and I know that's a problem, albeit a rare one). It may be rare, but when consequences are potentially catastrophic, one does need to consider! I don't have a garage, so would either need to store in an outdoor storage cabinet - or - in my walkout basement. Any firemen out there with recommendations? Do we know if those fires happened spontaneously when the bike was just sitting there? Or only when it was being charged? How to mitigate? Charge the battery outside, away from the house with an extension cord? Store the whole bike outside in a cabinet? Or pull it into the basement but remove the battery and store THAT inside a fireproof container? (or perhaps wrapped in welding fabric)? Other thoughts/ideas?

The "cheaper" your e-bike/battery/charger, the bigger a risk this is, but yeah, it's always a concern.  Fires can happen because the battery pack is shoddily constructed, not vibration resistant, has poor quality wire/buses between individual cells, or has low quality battery management/charging electronics.

In general you want the battery to have been constructed with either Samsung or Panasonic cells.  If the battery that comes with the bike doesn't specify one of those, then you should consider it to be "cheap" and higher risk.

Personally I charge the bikes only in the garage over a concrete floor and away from anything flammable.  My understanding if that if a battery pack DOES ignite there is nothing commonly available to consumers that will extinguish it; it will burn until it exhausts all the energy in the cells.

• Are there known brands out there that are considered better than others? The brand names I'm seeing mean nothing to me yet.

It's more the e-bike components than the bike name that really matters.  Anything with Bosch batteries/controllers is probably top of the line.

Samsung/Panasonic battery cells preferred.

Bafang motors are also highly regarded.

Brakes - disc brakes are pretty much "standard", but get hydraulically actuated brakes instead of mechanical/cable actuated ones if you can.

• I've never had a rack of any type on my car (2000 Audi A4)... is it safer (in terms of theft) to have a folding model INSIDE the car and out of sight? Or do those racks with appropriate locks dissuade most bike thieves?

Folding models tend to have smaller diameter wheels.  Great for space saving, but smaller wheels are way less pleasant to ride on.

If you have a way to run a cable or padded chain lock around the bikes and through the rack that should be sufficient to deter theft.

I would strongly recommend a hitch-mounted rack, and not something that just "sits" on your car with straps.

Also, see battery concerns regarding vibration above - I'd recommend removing the battery from the bike when transporting on a car rack.

• Any other thoughts/suggestions? Any input is much appreciated!  These are costly items... I really want to do my due diligence and make a sound purchase whenever I'm ready.

Do not buy an e-bike from Aliexpress unless you've REALLY done due diligence on it.  Most likely you will get the crappiest quality possible.

There's not much standardization in ebikes yet, so high possibility of buying a "low-to-mid-tier" bike and the brand/company disappears a year later leaving you without recourse for parts.  Wheels/tires/brakes/shifters, yeah, you can probably replace those, but custom battery cases, "no-name" motors, controllers and displays are going to be a pain if they die after the manufacturer/brand goes dark.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

A couple of other things:

Depending on how hilly the areas you're going to ride on are, you'll likely want a 500W motor mininum.  The more hills, the bigger the motor. 750W is the next common step up, and 1000W is about the maximum for "standard" ebikes.  Over 1000W, you're getting into the range of "hyperbikes" which are more like electric motorcyles than bicycles.

There's 2 common types of motors - hub drive (the motor is in the hub of the wheel, power is generated right at the wheel) and mid-drive (the motor is at the crankshaft, power is transmitted through the chain/belt from the cranks to the wheel).

Hub drive is fine for most, however it will always put out the same torque no matter what gear the bike is in as it's independent of the gears.  Some hub drive motors have low quality internal gears made out of plastic that eventually fail.

Mid drive typically tends to be much more expensive, but usually has much more longevity.

Do NOT get a front wheel-only hub-drive bike.  I don't think I've ever seen one sold new, usually they're just retrofits to "regular" bikes.  If the bike you're getting has only one hub-drive wheel, it has to be the rear wheel.  There are some bikes with BOTH front and rear wheel hub drives - they can be good as long as the controller is well tuned to synchronize the 2 motors.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Glock 19.

[10X 3,301]

I've no experience with e-Bikes, but years ago did have a roof rack with a bike mount.  It was a moderate pain to get a lightweight mountain bike up on the roof and held in place long enough to secure it to the mount.   I'd think it would have been significantly worse with a much heavier e-Bike.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

44 minutes ago, 10X said:

I've no experience with e-Bikes, but years ago did have a roof rack with a bike mount.  It was a moderate pain to get a lightweight mountain bike up on the roof and held in place long enough to secure it to the mount.   I'd think it would have been significantly worse with a much heavier e-Bike.

Yeah, I would never consider a roof rack... I lack the strength to be hoisting something to that height. I was considering the hitch mount racks.

 

Yikes! A ton of really useful info so far. Thanks, everyone!

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

14 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

I don't know of any brands but I would think a folding one would be better - out of sight much better than exposed even if locked.

Lipo charging - Use a battery bag.

https://www.amazon.com/Fireproof-Accessories-Explosionproof-transport-19-2x5-5x5-9Inches/dp/B0C4LWCTTM/

Are there any tests where a lithium battery was actually ignited in one of these bags?  I'm skeptical that they would contain the fire for the duration of the entire burn.

The "test" video in the linked one above is comical - a single lit piece of paper?

Edit: Yeah, still skeptical:

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=CXXBDq8vp2A
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=zIOpVFlzB9I

[Krdshrk 3,877]

9 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Are there any tests where a lithium battery was actually ignited in one of these bags?  I'm skeptical that they would contain the fire for the duration of the entire burn.

The "test" video in the linked one above is comical - a single lit piece of paper?

Edit: Yeah, still skeptical:

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=CXXBDq8vp2A
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=zIOpVFlzB9I

I wouldn't say it's firePROOF but of course it's fire resistant.  It will help contain any explosions so it's not spewing fire everywhere immediately.  I use a smaller bag for when I charge my Airsoft LiPo batteries.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I dont see these things getting cheaper, really. Unless for inflationary reasons. Battery prices are probably going to go way up in the not so distant future too.

Bikes in general have a way of being "redeveloped" each year and are rediculous expensive. These things already run mostly on cheapo Chinese speed controllers and motors you can get for a few hundred bucks off Amazon. There are cheap ones already in price and function. The expensive ones will continue to be expensive to serve as a higher tier product. 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

@Mrs. Peel - Not sure if you're looking for specific recommendations, but if you are - Juiced Bikes is a "reputable" e-bike brand that is well regarded.  If I hadn't already bought 2 e-bikes previously I'd probably be jumping on this one:

https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/scorpion-x2

[SmokenClay 21]

I am on the fence with E-Bikes.  The majority are made outside the USA (including TREK) and I've recently heard about a rash of E-bike fires in China (most cases are when charging - left pugged in for extended periods.)

For me I would stick with US made:

https://pedalwithpower.com/electric-bikes-made-in-the-usa/?expand_article=1

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

27 minutes ago, SmokenClay said:

I am on the fence with E-Bikes.  The majority are made outside the USA (including TREK) and I've recently heard about a rash of E-bike fires in China (most cases are when charging - left pugged in for extended periods.)

For me I would stick with US made:

https://pedalwithpower.com/electric-bikes-made-in-the-usa/?expand_article=1

I admire the ethic, but you will pay for it.

The article lists 3 bike companies that are "Made in the USA".  Only 1 of them is really an option:

https://electricbikecompany.com/

Their pricing is on the high side of the market, but not ridiculous.  The warranty looks great (10 years frame, 5 years battery), assuming the company is around that long, and it appears they're assembled in the USA but with a majority of Chinese sourced frames/parts.

The other 2 companies in the article - Uh no, they're super-niche:

https://outriderusa.com/

Their specialty is apparently 4 wheel off-road "vehicles" that are ~$15k

https://hpcbikes.com/pages/electricbikes
Looks like their lowest priced model is ~$4k, and they quickly go up to >$10k for upper models. Their specialty appears to be hyper/offroad ebikes.

[SmokenClay 21]

2 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

I admire the ethic, but you will pay for it.

As with most things produced domestically.  I do have Chinese glass but I'm not worried about the scope burning my house down

[Tom609 27]

I was recently in my local bike shop and got talking to the owner about the proliferation of ebikes.  He mentioned the biggest problem was when people would bring in some of the cheaper ones for repair and the parts had to be ordered from China. I agree, stick to known names and US made.