Federal Judge: Illegal Immigrants Can Carry Guns

[Xtors 333]

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

The case declares the specific statute prohibiting possession.  It had nothing to do with purchase. 

Yes, I realize that. In a state like NJ you cannot purchase a handgun without a background check. Nor can you apply for a CCW without a background check. And you can't carry a gun if you don't legally own one.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

This was the Northern District of Illinois.

Where is this illegal peaceable alien's FOID card??

[FDHog 613]

That's great. Illinois a state with some of the toughest gun laws.

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, brucin said:

Unless you have been convicted in a court of law you are not a criminal. The current regime  is not and has no intention of ever bringing any of the invaders to court so therefore they will never be criminals till we get a government that enforces the law.

This is a major point many are not thinking of.  If you're not convicted you're not a criminal.

Same thing as an unconstitutional law is not unconstitutional until a court has ruled it so.

[voyager9 3,434]

2 hours ago, Xtors said:

Yes, I realize that. In a state like NJ you cannot purchase a handgun without a background check. Nor can you apply for a CCW without a background check. And you can't carry a gun if you don't legally own one.

To your point, though:  now that precedent has been set, could an illegal immigrant challenge IL’s FOID and Background check? Could make a case that their rights are also being denied since they can’t purchase.  

29 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

This is a major point many are not thinking of.  If you're not convicted you're not a criminal.

Cries in Red Flag laws..

 

[Xtors 333]

12 hours ago, voyager9 said:

To your point, though:  now that precedent has been set, could an illegal immigrant challenge IL’s FOID and Background check? Could make a case that their rights are also being denied since they can’t purchase.  

Cries in Red Flag laws..

 

That may be the silver lining here. Maybe this is the shot across the bow, unintentionally as it may be, to kill FOIDs, P2Ps, etc. And from a liberal judge no less.

[FDHog 613]

12 hours ago, voyager9 said:

To your point, though:  now that precedent has been set, could an illegal immigrant challenge IL’s FOID and Background check? Could make a case that their rights are also being denied since they can’t purchase.  

Cries in Red Flag laws..

 

American citizens can be denied FID cards because of background checks and other reasons. Since these Illegals have no background to check, they should automatically be denied. Just making them subject to the same rules and regs we are. Oh, but I forgot, they're special!

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, FDHog said:

American citizens can be denied FID cards because of background checks and other reasons. Since these Illegals have no background to check, they should automatically be denied. Just making them subject to the same rules and regs we are. Oh, but I forgot, they're special!

That is how it is now and this case doesn’t change that.  The case was about possession not purchase.  Illegal immigrants would be denied a purchase via FFL because they couldn’t pass the BGC.   My point/question is the possession case verdict gives precedent to challenge that.  

[ESB 247]

So if they snuck the weapon into the country they are legally allowed to posses it?  

[GRIZ 3,369]

22 minutes ago, ESB said:

So if they snuck the weapon into the country they are legally allowed to posses it?  

That would be an importation issue for CBP.  Generally if you import a firearm without declaring it it becomes contraband.

[FDHog 613]

7 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

That would be an importation issue for CBP.  Generally if you import a firearm without declaring it it becomes contraband.

Generalizations go out the window where illegals are concerned. Now there's an Illegal influencer telling all of them about Squatter's Rights. None of this is any good. It's all going to lead to uncontrolled violence, which is what I think the Dems/George Soros are looking for. They break into your house when you're out and break into your gun safe. What a country.

[Tunaman 549]

Buy more ammo.

[GRIZ 3,369]

5 hours ago, FDHog said:

Generalizations go out the window where illegals are concerned. Now there's an Illegal influencer telling all of them about Squatter's Rights. None of this is any good. It's all going to lead to uncontrolled violence, which is what I think the Dems/George Soros are looking for. They break into your house when you're out and break into your gun safe. What a country.

Letting illegals into the country and letting illegals into the country with smuggled firearms are different issues.  I'm certain CBP or Border Patrol give them a pat down and search any bags they have.

[FDHog 613]

Very easy for them to get them once they're here. Illegally of course.

[Ferris 78]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

Letting illegals into the country and letting illegals into the country with smuggled firearms are different issues.  I'm certain CBP or Border Patrol give them a pat down and search any bags they have.

I think you give a bit too much credit, look at the amount of drugs that make it over the border and I'm sure someone had to turn a blind eye when the ATF  and Holder sent guns into mexico.

[diamondd817 827]

If I identify as an Unducumented (Illegal) Migrant, than I can carry anywhere, anytime, all the time, without any worry? 

[Xtors 333]

Just now, diamondd817 said:

If I identify as an Unducumented (Illegal) Migrant, than I can carry anywhere, anytime, all the time, without any worry? 

I like the way you think. #genius

[GRIZ 3,369]

8 hours ago, Ferris said:

I think you give a bit too much credit, look at the amount of drugs that make it over the border and I'm sure someone had to turn a blind eye when the ATF  and Holder sent guns into mexico.

If you're implyimg Border Patrol and CBP turn a blind eye to drug smuggling you're wrong.  You have little vision of the volume of drug smuggling.  Sadly, I'd say maybe 10% of the drugs smuggled are intercepted.  That's not due to lack of diligence by Border Patrol and CBP.

I guarantee you no Border Patrol Agent is going to put an alien, caught between the POEs, into a vehicle for transport without a search. No CBP officer is going to sit down an alien.for processing without a search.

Exit searches, although legal, are rarely done.  Mexican Customs are not big on searching anything unless there's some money in it for them.  You can load your trunk up with guns and ammo and drive into mexico with 99.9% chance of not being searched.

[Ferris 78]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

If you're implyimg Border Patrol and CBP turn a blind eye to drug smuggling you're wrong.  You have little vision of the volume of drug smuggling.  Sadly, I'd say maybe 10% of the drugs smuggled are intercepted.  That's not due to lack of diligence by Border Patrol and CBP.

I guarantee you no Border Patrol Agent is going to put an alien, caught between the POEs, into a vehicle for transport without a search. No CBP officer is going to sit down an alien.for processing without a search.

Exit searches, although legal, are rarely done.  Mexican Customs are not big on searching anything unless there's some money in it for them.  You can load your trunk up with guns and ammo and drive into mexico with 99.9% chance of not being searched.

I'm simply saying it happens, but since we're on the subject CBP like all government agencies ultimately enforce in the confine of policy, if that policy is to cut concertina wire put up to stop an inflow they'll cut it, if it's to wave protestors into a building to later charger them with trespassing then they're getting waved it. If that policy is  more targeting of certain groups for targeted IRS auditing the audits are coming.

I don't think the policy is to explicitly  ignore  weapons at  the POE , and a agent won't put themselves in danger and most won't allow such a blatant disregard for the law,but there are many crossing points that are unmonitored that are the direct result of policy.

NJ Gun law is another great example, before bruen the policy was the connected were only allowed to get a PTC and the police chiefs and Judges went along happily with this even if this was obviously against the rights of the people and law.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I can guarantee there is no way USBP or CBP let's an illegal "slip" in with a firearm. Yes, all government agencies on all levels are governed by policy.  Can it happen that an illegal slip in with a firearm? Yes, but not something that happens routinely.  More like rarely. Very rarely.

The "got aways" who have crossed between the POEs may have smuggled a bazooka or 50 lbs of fenatyl.  They were never encountered by USBP or CBP.  Don't blame the mean and women of the agencies for that.  There's only so many of them.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

My argument is..... what happened to Illinois FOIP? 

Did she just say it's unconstitutional? 

Can anyone just go out and grab a gun off the street in Illinois if they don't have a criminal record, let alone a violent one? 

Bruen allowed for state licensing requirements,so I don't see how this OBama judge came to this conclusion .

[ESB 247]

17 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Letting illegals into the country and letting illegals into the country with smuggled firearms are different issues.  I'm certain CBP or Border Patrol give them a pat down and search any bags they have.

They are definitely not patting down every illegal they come in contact with.  You can see videos of them just waiving illegals through.  

[JackDaWack 2,895]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:19 AM, voyager9 said:

That is how it is now and this case doesn’t change that.  The case was about possession not purchase.  Illegal immigrants would be denied a purchase via FFL because they couldn’t pass the BGC.   My point/question is the possession case verdict gives precedent to challenge that.  

Yes possession, a state the makes it illegal to possess firearms without a FOID. Hence, defacto. 

So, I can't figure out how the FOID law stands when a judge just ruled he didn't need one post Bruen to exercise his right. 

[FDHog 613]

So now we have a precedent set that we don't need FID cards? From a state with the toughest gun laws.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I think the judges opinion was extremely short sighted, even if agreed upon. 99% chance this gets overturned in appeals when everyone realizes the FOID isn't going anywhere, and in concept is allowed under Bruen. 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

5 hours ago, ESB said:

They are definitely not patting down every illegal they come in contact with.  You can see videos of them just waiving illegals through.  

And you know this because...?

I know what I know as I worked on the border for over 2.years and have worked there tdy several times since.

OTOH, there is little reason for aliens to smuggle a gun.  Reasons?

1.  They know if they get caught with a gun by USBP they'll be in trouble.  No gun?  I can tell them any name I want and walk right in

2.  They are coming from countries where guns are very difficult or impossible to obtain.

3.  Those so interested know they can obtain a firearm easily off.the street.

 

 

 

 

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

So, I can't figure out how the FOID law stands when a judge just ruled he didn't need one post Bruen to exercise his right

Probably because the case didn’t challenge purchase/FOID, just the possession statute he was charged with.  

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, FDHog said:

So now we have a precedent set that we don't need FID cards? From a state with the toughest gun laws.

Technically it’s not precedent now that I think about it.  The ruling is “as applied” so only applies to the subject of the case.  It doesn’t invalidate the federal statute though can be referenced in other cases with similar challenges.  

[JackDaWack 2,895]

20 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Probably because the case didn’t challenge purchase/FOID, just the possession statute he was charged with.  

Illinois FOID is required for POSSESSION. 

It's also required to even apply for your CCW. 

He was charged with illegal possession under their FOID and Carry laws, so I'm not seeing how they are seperate.

[voyager9 3,434]

6 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Illinois FOID is required for POSSESSION. 

It's also required to even apply for your CCW. 

He was charged with illegal possession under their FOID and Carry laws, so I'm not seeing how they are seperate.

He was charged under the federal statute. 

Quote

U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman ruled on March 8 that the defendant, Heriberto Carbajal-Flores, who is residing in the United States illegally, had his Second Amendment right’s violated when prosecutors originally charged him with 18 U.S.C § 922, which bars illegal immigrants from carrying guns or ammunition.