Radios...?

[xXxplosive 828]

Looking to by a set of Long range 2 way reliable radios.....any suggestions....please.

[revenger 473]

There are not really any long range portable radios,      VHF  144 mhz up to around 160 mhz would be your best bet.

for ham frequencies you would have to get a license  144-148 mhz

as far as reliability, that comes with a price.   all commercial radios require programming software and knowledge.

 

2 meter ham would be your best bet,  icom, kenwood.

[xXxplosive 828]

looking for a hand held set......and I'm not really too familiar with them.

[SmokenClay 21]

I haven't done it yet but I was looking at getting a GMRS license. I think it's like $35 and covers immediate family members.  There is no test and it is all online.  Then you can use more powerful longer range handheld and repeaters.

https://quality2wayradios.com/store/gmrs-fcc-license

 

[Buck Russell 2]

I keep seeing the words “long range”. How far do you mean by that?  You’re going to be disappointed when you find out the truth about how far they’ll reach….

[xXxplosive 828]

I guess I already know....our Midland walkies reach about a 1/2mi. up here on the Mountain.

[SmokenClay 21]

Terrain can be an issue with range.  Line of sight is important that there are no hills/forest/large buildings between receivers.  Being on the top of the hill will be advantageous to communicating in all directions.

A more powerful radio will provide additional range and clarity but it is still line of sight.

[ESB 248]

A good antenna can be more important than power output.  Plus power output and range is mostly exaggerated.  If you want a decent but cheap (~$25) radio get a Baofeng UV-5R (or whatever is latest version).  They have models that are 8 or 10W (not likely, but are probably over 5W though), and have replaceable antenna's. This will be significantly better than your typical GMRS radio, and with a decent antenna and programming can be almost as good as much more expensive radios.  

 

Legal notice:  IMNAL, but technically they are illegal to use on FRS/GMRS channels because of the power output and swappable antenna.  You could technically program the power output to be compliant for each channel, but a swappable antenna is technically not allowed for FRS/GMRS radios.  Never heard of anyone getting in trouble using one though.  

I've also heard that these are illegal for HAM use because they can transmit on UHF and VHF.  Again, who is going to know or care (besides the very anal ham operators)?  But they are in common use and would be a good starter UHF/VHF radio before sinking a ton of money into pro grade radios.    

You could legally use them on MERS channels with good results.  
Again, these will be significantly better than your typical GMRS radio, and with a decent antenna and programming can be almost as good as much more expensive radios.  

 

[Boris621 0]

I agree with the other posters who say that “long range” and “hand held” are generally not found together.  Hand held radios are generally line-of-sight and their range will depend on terrain, height, antenna and power - but will go from say .5 mile to 5, 10 miles or more in the right circumstances. 

Most are advertised at 5W, some go up to 10W.  But terrain, antenna and height will make a bigger difference than an extra 5W advertised power in my opinion. 

The Baofeng UV-5r is a popular choice and is inexpensive. You can get two of them for $34 on Amazon at the time I am writing this. Some other, newer model radios have come on the market now that are a little more expensive but might be better because they receive more - like air bands and HF ham bands (with easy software changes), and are easier to program. I am thinking of the Quansheng UV-K5 (8) and the TidRadio TD H-3.  These are in the $30 range. 
 

If you want to spend a little more, you can get a more recognized brand like a Yaesu FT-4XR ($80) ,a Yaesu FT-65 ($110), or an Alinco DJ-VX50 ($95). 
 

All of the above require a Ham Radio license to operate legally, though. But if you’re serious about using radio, you should really consider getting this.  The license will cost $35 to register with the FCC (this is the amount you would have to pay for a GMRS license (good for your whole family), plus $15 for the test.  There are many many apps and YouTube videos to help you study for free.  About 10-20 hours of serious study will get most people a pass.  
 

To learn more about this kind of radio communication a couple of YouTube channels I recommend are “Not a Rubicon” and “Ham Radio Crash Course” (he also has classes for the test).   There are many other really good ones - just search around. 
 

If you’re not interested in getting a ham license, GMRS is probably your best bet. I know Baofeng and Quansheng, and I think TidRadio, have GMRS radios. You can change antennas on these and can go up to 50W on base and mobile units. You are supposed to get a license for GMRS and it is just a $35 fee - no test. And it’s good for your entire household. 
 
Hope this helps. 

 

[Scorpio64 5,183]

8 hours ago, Boris621 said:

The Baofeng UV-5r is a popular choice and is inexpensive

The UV-5RX3 Radiooddity tri-band is also very popular.  Frequency Range: 136-173.975MHz / 220-225MHz /  400-519.975MHz.

 

On 4/12/2024 at 8:36 PM, ESB said:

A good antenna can be more important than power output.

A good antenna is every bit as important as the radio itself.  To use a gun related analog, You can have $2,000.00 in gun  parts for a great rifle, but, if you cheaped out on the barrel, don't cry when you get 5 moa accuracy.  If you own a fabulous $300.00 radio and use a pos counterfeit $10.00 antenna, or the wrong antenna for the band you will be using, your radio may as well be a TRU Barbie walkie-talkie.

Some other things to think about, like getting an extended battery.  The standard battery for a BeefWang is 1800mAh, the extended battery is double that, with 3600mAh.  The larger battery also makes the radio more handy, like, for adult sized hands. A back-up battery is essential for any "prepper" transceiver.

 

 

[ESB 248]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:32 PM, Buck Russell said:

I keep seeing the words “long range”. How far do you mean by that?  You’re going to be disappointed when you find out the truth about how far they’ll reach….

I've been messing around lately trying to figure out the usefulness of hand held radios.  Realistically without a repeater expect 0.5-1.0miles in typical terrain (houses, trees, mountains).  Unless you have completely unobstructed view and no interference (mountain top to mountain top, over water, etc) , you aren't going to get multiple mile range. 

Using a repeater, you can probably go up to 25 miles.  This really depends on where the repeater is located and if your radio can reach it.  Because repeaters are usually on top of mountains with large antennas and lots of power, you can usually be able to hear them.  To be able to have 2 way communication with someone your radio needs to be able to reach the repeater.  Because they are up higher with larger antenna's it is easier for your radio to reach them at greater distances. 

For example, you may not be able to reach someone 2 miles away in simplex mode (same channel, direct communication, no repeater), but could talk to them if you use a repeater 10 miles away.  

The challenge is find repeaters in your area that you and the party you want to communicate with can reach and use.  

There are many sites that list repeaters: (note that unless you have a digital radio, you cannot use digital repeaters, so just look for FM repeaters.  

MyGMRS.com (requires payment to get the tone info, but you can use a scanner to find them. see below)  

RepeaterBook.com - NJ

RadioReference.com - NJ

ARRL.org (uses RFinder.net) - requires subscription

I found the RepeaterBook phone app to actually work well.

 

Unfortunately I've found that they are woefully not up to date.  Many either aren't working, aren't used, or even though they should be in range, apparently I am not.  Also I have found (by using a scanner) that there are many that aren't even listed.   

 

The best way I've found to see what is actually in range is to use a good scanner (a real one, not the scanning feature of your Baofeng).  You will need one that can detect CTSS/DCS tones.  Repeaters use these codes to open up the channel and rebroadcast your input.  Without these codes, even if you transmit on their input frequencies they will not repeat.  Basically in order to use a repeater, you need to know their transmit (TX) frequency, receive frequency (RX, usually listed as either a + or - offset from the the repeaters transmit frequency), and their RX CTSS Tone or DCS Code.  Some repeaters do not use tones or codes and so their tone/code will be listed as CSQ.  

Once you find the repeaters and their receive offset and tones, you can program them in your radio with the CHIRP (or similar) software.  

[Grima Squeakersen 484]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:16 AM, ESB said:

...Using a repeater, you can probably go up to 25 miles.  This really depends on where the repeater is located and if your radio can reach it.  Because repeaters are usually on top of mountains with large antennas and lots of power, you can usually be able to hear them....

Have you done any research into the cost and licensing requirements to run a repeater? We own some mountainous acreage in a very rural part of Virginia RIdge and Valley country that serves as vacation place and potential SHTF retreat. We get mediocre cell phone coverage (US Cellular only) and nothing else. I have thought of putting an antenna tower up the hill a ways (we own nearly to the top of the ridge. I wouldn't do it just for Ham or GMRS radio, but if I could get expanded cell coverage, and/or satellite internet (Dish or Starlink) as well, from one tower, I might go for it.

==== sorry, didn't  intend to hijack the thread ====

[ESB 248]

On 4/25/2024 at 5:15 PM, Grima Squeakersen said:

Have you done any research into the cost and licensing requirements to run a repeater? We own some mountainous acreage in a very rural part of Virginia RIdge and Valley country that serves as vacation place and potential SHTF retreat. We get mediocre cell phone coverage (US Cellular only) and nothing else. I have thought of putting an antenna tower up the hill a ways (we own nearly to the top of the ridge. I wouldn't do it just for Ham or GMRS radio, but if I could get expanded cell coverage, and/or satellite internet (Dish or Starlink) as well, from one tower, I might go for it.

==== sorry, didn't  intend to hijack the thread ====

Briefly.  Most people say at least $10k so I stopped there.   You could also start a local club with dues to pay for the repeater.   

I guess on the cheap side, you could try to do a 50w mobile unit and big antenna running off of a battery with solar.  But you'll want enough batteries to last multiple days of bad weather and then enough solar to charge them back up in a day.   Still a couple grand.  

[Scorpio64 5,183]

2 hours ago, ESB said:

I guess on the cheap side, you could try to do a 50w mobile unit and big antenna running off of a battery

If I lived in the hills, (or the burbs with a tall tree) I'd invest in at least one dedicated repeater and a solar based system to power it.  I don't think you need a tremendous amount of battery capacity, as the repeater will be on standby most of the time.  It will only draw serious current when it transmits.

I think one could set up a reliable, self sustaining private node for around $1,500, maybe less.

 

2 hours ago, ESB said:

you'll want enough batteries to last multiple days of bad weather and then enough solar to charge them back up in a day.

Agree 100%

[Grima Squeakersen 484]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:36 PM, Scorpio64 said:

If I lived in the hills, (or the burbs with a tall tree) I'd invest in at least one dedicated repeater and a solar based system to power it.  I don't think you need a tremendous amount of battery capacity, as the repeater will be on standby most of the time.  It will only draw serious current when it transmits.

I think one could set up a reliable, self sustaining private node for around $1,500, maybe less.

 

Agree 100%

Interesting discussion. I have plenty of large, tall trees that I could affix antennae elements to . But then I'd be at the mercy of wind and lightning. Of course, a falling tree could easily take out an adjacent tower as well :-) My biggest mental obstacle with installing a tower is how to get all the pieces up the slope to the install point. A new tower is no doubt a pretty big expense, but I see them on FB Marketplace regularly for fairly cheap, provided the buyer takes the thing down.

[Buck Russell 2]

WHO do you think you’ll be talking to?  Seriously, WHO do you think you’ll talk to and WHAT do you think you’ll get out of the person on the other end?

[ESB 248]

12 hours ago, Buck Russell said:

WHO do you think you’ll be talking to?  Seriously, WHO do you think you’ll talk to and WHAT do you think you’ll get out of the person on the other end?

This is a very good point.  It is not like there is a channel/frequency that people are monitering in case of emergencies.  And if you do reach someone they may not know how to help.   In a SHTF situation, if you are looking for news/updates how will you know the info you are getting from as stranger over the radio is valid and not disinformation?  

If you have friends and family in the area you want to keep in touch with without cell phones and setup protocols to communicate (ie get on the radio every day at these times) it may be useful.   

What is the area you need to cover and who do you want to communicate with?  

[JohnnyB 4,330]

29 minutes ago, ESB said:

If you have friends and family in the area you want to keep in touch with without cell phones and setup protocols to communicate (ie get on the radio every day at these times) it may be useful.   

This is about all they are good for.  A local, short distance walkie talkie when cell phones are out.

[Scorpio64 5,183]

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

This is about all they are good for.  A local, short distance walkie talkie .....

Without a repeater or a base station, yes, you are correct.  However, lets say a group of siblings that live throughout the state, where everyone lives within 25 miles of at least one family member. In that case you could set up your own self managed repeater network.

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

when cell phones are out.

You can use some radios with your cell phone to send and receive text messages over GMRS.  The radio interfaces with your phone via Bluetooth.  That's kinda neat. I wonder if there is any encryption.

[SmokenClay 21]

7 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

I wonder if there is any encryption

It's not legal to use encryption:

https://www.offgridweb.com/preparation/encrypted-radios-aes-256/#:~:text=And%2C of course%2C if your,walkie-talkies) is illegal.

[Grima Squeakersen 484]

23 hours ago, SmokenClay said:

It's not legal to use encryption:

https://www.offgridweb.com/preparation/encrypted-radios-aes-256/#:~:text=And%2C of course%2C if your,walkie-talkies) is illegal.

If the S truly HTF, one of my major concerns would be of a government agency, or virtually the entire government, gone rogue (even more so than current events portray :-) In that event, I think I'd be far more concerned with what could happen if one of those rogue elements could easily eavesdrop on my plans and activities, than with somebody citing me for infraction of an FCC regulation.

[Grima Squeakersen 484]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:50 AM, ESB said:

...In a SHTF situation, if you are looking for news/updates how will you know the info you are getting from as stranger over the radio is valid and not disinformation?...

Is that really any different from today? Logic, common sense, and experience are the only way to determine if anything you see on the net today, or hear from someone else, even (or maybe especially) someone in a nominal position of authority. I pretty much disregard at least 60% of what purported "information" I see, and I take the rest with a very large grain of salt.

[Grima Squeakersen 484]

On 5/5/2024 at 9:48 PM, Buck Russell said:

WHO do you think you’ll be talking to?  Seriously, WHO do you think you’ll talk to and WHAT do you think you’ll get out of the person on the other end?

If you haven't already found people that you would want to communicate with in a crisis, and formed some kind of at least informal network of those folks before you need to use this technology for SHTF communications, it won't help.

[ESB 248]

On 5/7/2024 at 11:54 AM, Grima Squeakersen said:

If you haven't already found people that you would want to communicate with in a crisis, and formed some kind of at least informal network of those folks before you need to use this technology for SHTF communications, it won't help.

Maybe this is something we could setup.  Establish a frequency (or frequencies) and check in/monitor times to use during a SHTF situation.  Who is interested in participating in something like this?  

[JohnnyB 4,330]

2 hours ago, ESB said:

Maybe this is something we could setup.  Establish a frequency (or frequencies) and check in/monitor times to use during a SHTF situation.  Who is interested in participating in something like this?  

I'm interested! I'm in South Jersey.

[Scorpio64 5,183]

5 hours ago, ESB said:

Maybe this is something we could setup.

 

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I'm interested!

@ESB  If you are taking up the mantel for this, I suggest anyone interested in being a part of it PM you directly. 

[ESB 248]

I was just thinking for now, we can post up the frequencies and names of the repeaters you can access.  Ie:

W2NJR [147.285000/+0.600/141.3] Martinsville

WB2NQV [147.375000/+0.600/151.4] Cherryville

N3MSK [445.725000/-5.000/136.5] Martinsville

KQ2H [449.175000/-5.000] Martinsville

N3MSK9 [449.575000/-5.000/151.4] Bloomsbury

WQWL772 [462.600000/+5.000/D445/D445] 

WQWL772 [462.625000/+5.000/D445/D445] 

[ESB 248]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:16 AM, ESB said:

There are many sites that list repeaters: (note that unless you have a digital radio, you cannot use digital repeaters, so just look for FM repeaters.  

MyGMRS.com (requires payment to get the tone info, but you can use a scanner to find them. see below)  

RepeaterBook.com - NJ

RadioReference.com - NJ

ARRL.org (uses RFinder.net) - requires subscription

I found the RepeaterBook phone app to actually work well.

The best way I've found to see what is actually in range is to use a good scanner (a real one, not the scanning feature of your Baofeng).  You will need one that can detect CTSS/DCS tones.  Repeaters use these codes to open up the channel and rebroadcast your input.  Without these codes, even if you transmit on their input frequencies they will not repeat.  Basically in order to use a repeater, you need to know their transmit (TX) frequency, receive frequency (RX, usually listed as either a + or - offset from the the repeaters transmit frequency), and their RX CTSS Tone or DCS Code.  Some repeaters do not use tones or codes and so their tone/code will be listed as CSQ.  

Once you find the repeaters and their receive offset and tones, you can program them in your radio with the CHIRP (or similar) software.  

 

[ESB 248]

If someone is setting up a repeater, Echolink capability would be cool.  Obviously don't count on the EchoLink part during a SHTF situation when internet may be down.  
https://echolink.org/

[tower06 4]

I picked up used Motorola HT1000s and had them programed to MURS frequency. I used them when I was involved with EMS and they are bullet proof.