"Warning - This Gun Will Shoot Without Mag In Place" !!!!

[Shane45 807]

I have shot with good, bad and great! All factions are represented on both sides But I'll tell you what, the only time I ever considered walking off the line and leaving a match was one attended by the Cadets of West Point. I did change squads and the RO's were pulling their hair out! They ended up having to pull the whole squad and give a final warning they would all be match DQ'd if they didnt tighten up right then and there. It was by far the worst gun handling I have ever seen uniformly across the entire group of about 25 cadets.

[RV-Ted 0]

I have a friend who is in the Federal prison system. Now I certainly am not the defacto gun expert, but it has been very clear to me when we're at the range that I take my shooting way more seriously than he does. It ads injury to insult when you realize that he can carry! I don't know every LEO out there to make a blanket statement, but many that I have known or met do not seem to take the firearms aspect of their job very seriously. It appears to be more of a status symbol than anything. It would be like a NASCAR driver not having their driver's license! You are putting yourself into harm's way AND have been given the tools and authority to defend yourself, yet you have to stop and think how to take apart your sidearm for cleaning?

[rscalzo 3]

Corrections is given significantly less firearms training than PD or SO as the job description is vastly different. I've trained them at the BC PA and the emphasis wasn't there. Not unusual as they only carry firearms on a limited basis unless on a specialty team. But as Federal corrections, they are not bound by the NJ AG's guidelines for firearm's training.

[KpdPipes 388]

I have a friend who is in the Federal prison system. Now I certainly am not the defacto gun expert, but it has been very clear to me when we're at the range that I take my shooting way more seriously than he does. It ads injury to insult when you realize that he can carry! I don't know every LEO out there to make a blanket statement, but many that I have known or met do not seem to take the firearms aspect of their job very seriously. It appears to be more of a status symbol than anything. It would be like a NASCAR driver not having their driver's license! You are putting yourself into harm's way AND have been given the tools and authority to defend yourself, yet you have to stop and think how to take apart your sidearm for cleaning?

 

Im going to say this one last time, and im finished with this thread and Subject. MOST DEPARTMENTS ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE po's from becoming "Gun Guys" They dont WANT them shooting on their own, they DONT WANT them carrying off duty. While the Rules and Regs may STATE otherwise, the simple fact is that more departments than not, do everything they can to prevent guys from doing any training or practicing except through the department, and swicne most departments wont do more then the bare minimums... You get people who for the most mart have NEVER hadnled a handgun before taking the job, being told by the People who are supposed to oversee they're training "Dont be That Guy" and they are going to take it to heart., Frankly im MORE surprised at how MANY cops in this state go against this anti-gun culture and defy the people who say "Do the minimum".

[kenw 293]

I have a friend who is in the Federal prison system. Now I certainly am not the defacto gun expert, but it has been very clear to me when we're at the range that I take my shooting way more seriously than he does. It ads injury to insult when you realize that he can carry! I don't know every LEO out there to make a blanket statement, but many that I have known or met do not seem to take the firearms aspect of their job very seriously. It appears to be more of a status symbol than anything. It would be like a NASCAR driver not having their driver's license! You are putting yourself into harm's way AND have been given the tools and authority to defend yourself, yet you have to stop and think how to take apart your sidearm for cleaning?

 

Im going to say this one last time, and im finished with this thread and Subject. MOST DEPARTMENTS ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE po's from becoming "Gun Guys" They dont WANT them shooting on their own, they DONT WANT them carrying off duty. While the Rules and Regs may STATE otherwise, the simple fact is that more departments than not, do everything they can to prevent guys from doing any training or practicing except through the department, and swicne most departments wont do more then the bare minimums... You get people who for the most mart have NEVER hadnled a handgun before taking the job, being told by the People who are supposed to oversee they're training "Dont be That Guy" and they are going to take it to heart., Frankly im MORE surprised at how MANY cops in this state go against this anti-gun culture and defy the people who say "Do the minimum".

I've heard that before, and I have to ask why that is? Is it just potential bad Public Relations for the dept. to have their guys seen at ranges and gun shops? Or is there more to it than that?

 

I have a friend who's an OB/GYN in PA, and he has to be careful where he's seen. He doesn't go to local bars or other questionable places fo fear of being seen there by his patients. Is it something like that?

[KpdPipes 388]

I have a friend who is in the Federal prison system. Now I certainly am not the defacto gun expert, but it has been very clear to me when we're at the range that I take my shooting way more seriously than he does. It ads injury to insult when you realize that he can carry! I don't know every LEO out there to make a blanket statement, but many that I have known or met do not seem to take the firearms aspect of their job very seriously. It appears to be more of a status symbol than anything. It would be like a NASCAR driver not having their driver's license! You are putting yourself into harm's way AND have been given the tools and authority to defend yourself, yet you have to stop and think how to take apart your sidearm for cleaning?

 

Im going to say this one last time, and im finished with this thread and Subject. MOST DEPARTMENTS ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE po's from becoming "Gun Guys" They dont WANT them shooting on their own, they DONT WANT them carrying off duty. While the Rules and Regs may STATE otherwise, the simple fact is that more departments than not, do everything they can to prevent guys from doing any training or practicing except through the department, and swicne most departments wont do more then the bare minimums... You get people who for the most mart have NEVER hadnled a handgun before taking the job, being told by the People who are supposed to oversee they're training "Dont be That Guy" and they are going to take it to heart., Frankly im MORE surprised at how MANY cops in this state go against this anti-gun culture and defy the people who say "Do the minimum".

I've heard that before, and I have to ask why that is? Is it just potential bad Public Relations for the dept. to have their guys seen at ranges and gun shops? Or is there more to it than that?

 

I have a friend who's an OB/GYN in PA, and he has to be careful where he's seen. He doesn't go to local bars or other questionable places fo fear of being seen there by his patients. Is it something like that?

 

IMO they see it as a liability either way...Either the guy gets involved in stuff he shouldnt, or even a legitimate incident...but the media blows it out of proportion that he's some "Militia Member/Gun Nut", OR, he gets involved in a Good Shoot, and uses superior training that he DIDNT get from his dept...highlighting the problems that exist in the "Training vs Qualifying" mindset. I've Heard first hand, superiors (fgrom another dept, not mine) accuse guys who were very contientious about carrying off-duty of "Looking for a Fight" and proudly stating that he kept his gun in his "Desk at work" (Unsecured mind.. :evil: ) and he had no guns in his home...the concept that ANY bad guy can find where you live isnt that hard..especially when you have a Big, Orange Pickup truck with a Vanity plate you park right outside your Station... :roll: Me, I've paid the price for it...im humping a radio car, and ill be doing so until the day i retire because im so vocal about this.

[Old School 611]

 

Me, I've paid the price for it...im humping a radio car, and ill be doing so until the day i retire because im so vocal about this.

 

 

KD, At least you can look yourself in the mirror.

Thanks for your courage.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

My ex FIL and my Best friend are both in LE.

FIL at state level and friend at county level.

BOTH are encouraged to carry off duty.

STate Level Dept provides the off duty guns in addition to their service duty weapons.

My County level friend had to provide his own off duty weapon, but is encouraged to carry

Both carry Glocks on and off btw, but I still don't like them

My friend has been on the job for a good 20 years.

He is FAR from a gun guy, only goes to the range when he has to qualify.

 

I KNOW he happens to be well trained (and a good part of his experience had been in corrections prior to patrol).

I am 100% positive he handles his weapon in safe manor and has excellent trigger discipline[line as I have seen it 1st hand.

He does not enjoy shooting tho and never took me to the range because he never really goes.

 

My FIL is much newer on the job and goes to the range much more frequently.

He is also not a gun guy tho. priot to

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I've heard that before, and I have to ask why that is? Is it just potential bad Public Relations for the dept. to have their guys seen at ranges and gun shops? Or is there more to it than that?

 

I have a friend who's an OB/GYN in PA, and he has to be careful where he's seen. He doesn't go to local bars or other questionable places fo fear of being seen there by his patients. Is it something like that?

 

IMO they see it as a liability either way...Either the guy gets involved in stuff he shouldnt, or even a legitimate incident...but the media blows it out of proportion that he's some "Militia Member/Gun Nut", OR, he gets involved in a Good Shoot, and uses superior training that he DIDNT get from his dept...highlighting the problems that exist in the "Training vs Qualifying" mindset. I've Heard first hand, superiors (fgrom another dept, not mine) accuse guys who were very contientious about carrying off-duty of "Looking for a Fight" and proudly stating that he kept his gun in his "Desk at work" (Unsecured mind.. :evil: ) and he had no guns in his home...the concept that ANY bad guy can find where you live isnt that hard..especially when you have a Big, Orange Pickup truck with a Vanity plate you park right outside your Station... :roll: Me, I've paid the price for it...im humping a radio car, and ill be doing so until the day i retire because im so vocal about this.

 

Is this type of unwritten policy a NY/NJ thing? Or are other states more gun liberal, and encourage their officers to be good gunners?

[KpdPipes 388]

I s this type of unwritten policy a NY/NJ thing? Or are other states more gun liberal, and encourage their officers to be good gunners?

Depends on the department. Out of state is usually better when it comes to training. As i said here, in many cases its a budget thing..Training and school budget is the first thing on the chopping block.