"Warning - This Gun Will Shoot Without Mag In Place" !!!!

[Chad 3]

Typically found stamped right on the slide of your firearm(s)...if applicable.

 

 

NJ police officer dies in accidental shooting

 

ATLANTIC CITY

[maideneddie 35]

Wow, kind of spooky that someone who is trained in gun handling would make such a amateur mistake. Just goes to show you always have to handle guns with the utmost of care and respect irregardless of how much training you have. What a tragedy.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

It is a tragic mistake.

 

But.. why was he messing with his gun while he was on duty in his patrol car? Did the grip sleeve get caught on the seat belt or something?

 

If he just thought it was a good time to install it, what woulda happened if you actually needed to use the gun?

[Chad 3]

Yep....

 

I'm sure the LEO's can back me up on this. I have seen some of the most unsafe handling of firearms in my life come directly from Police Officers. NOT ALL OFFICERS, in fact probably very few, but still officers none the less. No actual departments to be named here but I have personally witnessed the Chief of Police fail his qualification test 4 times because he could not get on paper from 7 yards. He finally requested a different person to administer his qualification test (while the police range was closed to everyone but the chief) and magically he passed that day.

 

Two other incidents, same dept. . . on midnight - accidental discharge with a shot to the thigh. Accidental Discharge with a shot thru a window. No injuries on that one.

[Old School 611]

Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

Firearms should be unloaded when not actually in use.

Don't rely on your gun's safety.

Be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

Use proper ammunition.

If your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled, handle with care.

Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting.

Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before shooting.

Don't alter or modify your gun and have it serviced regularly.

Learn the mechanical and handling characteristics of the firearm you are using.

[rscalzo 3]

Those grip sleeves are the worst item to put on a handgun. They slip all over the place and if the slightest amount of oil gets on or under them, they can ride out activating the magazine release.

 

He has a little over a year on the street. With the exception of the training in the police academy, he probably had little experience with handguns. In some cases training in the academy is with an academy issued handgun which can be completly different from the duty handgun.

 

But unfortunatly his skills were not up to par.

[tony357 386]

prayers go out to his family and friends..

 

 

never heard of grip sleeves, will have to see what they are, sounds cheezy..

[bbk 188]

Prayers to the family. And agreed, I have seen idiots far beyond comprehension in the military who were trusted with some crazy stuff.

 

I'm assuming the sleeves are something like Hogue sleeves or Pachmayr sleeves. I have a Pachmayr on my XD, but I'll admit that if I carried it, I probably wouldn't use it. That thing is constantly sliding around, but considering its a bedside pistol it functions as I want it too.

[Blcklightning 11]

Those grip sleeves are the worst item to put on a handgun. They slip all over the place and if the slightest amount of oil gets on or under them, they can ride out activating the magazine release.

 

I've heard of police departments banning the sleeves because of the slippage issues.

[ben 0]

+1 to everything that was said. NDs happen. It is a statistical fact. You have to do everything (SAFETY) to make sure you don't become a statistic.

[jermz1987 243]

man that's sad. Prayers go out to his family and friends.

[Maksim 1,504]

prayers to his family.

 

But it must be said... when fuggin around with his gun, he takes out the magazine... but doesnt clear/check the chamber? And I take it no thumb safety on those glocks?

 

Btw, for the LEO here... Is there a rule or a guideline as to what condition the LEO is to carry their firearm in?

 

Ie, in Israel, it is mandatory for them to carry with a magazine in, however unchambered. They are taught from the beginning to chamber/rack while drawing.

[Old School 611]

prayers to his family.

 

But it must be said... when fuggin around with his gun, he takes out the magazine... but doesnt clear/check the chamber? And I take it no thumb safety on those glocks?

 

Btw, for the LEO here... Is there a rule or a guideline as to what condition the LEO is to carry their firearm in?

 

Ie, in Israel, it is mandatory for them to carry with a magazine in, however unchambered. They are taught from the beginning to chamber/rack while drawing.

 

Does it say anywhere what kind of pistol it was?

 

BTW Sad and condolences

[LibertyOrDeath 3]

So very sad and unfortunate. Theres some irony there as well as some complacecency. Its ironic that 'Gunman" like ourselves are sometimes more safe and methodic with handling, servicing and transporting our firearms then the actual L.E officers that use them daily as tools to keep us safe. I think thats probably more so because we are continually bombarded everywhere we go, most of the things we read and do with our favorite hobby conserning safety and firearms! I think its complacent because as with all our jobs it becomes repetative daily and we get a false sense of security and become laxed and then unsafe? For my type of work it could be electricution,explosion or burns, for you it could be just driving and talking on the phone. Unfortunetly for that officer it was the simple handling of his everyday gear that caused him to loose his life. May the lord have mercy on his soul and strength to his family in this dark hour! A lesson to US all.

[PK90 3,573]

Does it say anywhere what kind of pistol it was?

Does it really matter? Most guns only discharge when the trigger is pulled.

[Chad 3]

Is there a rule or a guideline as to what condition the LEO is to carry their firearm in?

 

The dept I worked for there was no set rules, about 90% of the guys carried in condition one, AKA 'ready to rock'.

 

Full magazine, round in chamber, safety off, hammer back (beretta 92F).

[djg0770 481]

Does it say anywhere what kind of pistol it was?

Does it really matter? Most guns only discharge when the trigger is pulled.

 

So true.

[Cylinder Head 22]

My condolences to his friends and family but that's as far as my sympathy goes here.

 

LEO's need better training with their weapons, and they need weapons with safeties. Having a round in the chamber while you're futzing with the gun is patently UNACCEPTABLE under any circumstances. Too many policemen in this state think they're invincible and above the rules that govern the people. You're not above good habits, like checking the chamber of a weapon every time you handle it.

 

A friend of mine was assaulted (sucker punched) by an off-duty policeman this past weekend in Hoboken because he accidentally stepped on the foot of a girl the cop was with (and apologized for it). Combine that attitude with the fact that 9/10 NJ policemen can't hit the broadside of a barn with their weapons and it makes them extremely dangerous.

[Old School 611]

Does it say anywhere what kind of pistol it was?

Does it really matter? Most guns only discharge when the trigger is pulled.

 

Agreed PK most firearms only dicharge when the trigger is pulled.

 

The reason I asked the question is that there is the perception that some firearms require less training than others. And to what degree was the negligence.

 

Even though I'm sure we all morn the loss of this LEO a root cause analysis needs to be done.

 

Any additional info about this tradgic occurence would be appreciated.

[LibertyOrDeath 3]

"Having a round in the chamber while you're futzing with the gun is patently UNACCEPTABLE under any circumstances."....you F*ckin A real it is!!! And look at the price he paid? Game Over!

[LibertyOrDeath 3]

I agree with you also 'Old School'...we need more information, and why was the weapon even being point at his head? I hope its not a cover up to the real crime? It wouldnt be the first time...this is Jersey.

[Old School 611]

"....you F*ckin A real it is!!!

 

 

Please explain this?

[LibertyOrDeath 3]

It is F*ckin completly UNACCEPTABLE to service a weapon with a live round in the chamber under any circumstances!

[Old School 611]

It is F*ckin completly UNACCEPTABLE to service a weapon with a live round in the chamber under any circumstances!

 

 

SUPER +1

[BCeagle 12]

Awful tragedy but could have been avoided by better training and gun safety. I have never handed to someone or cleaned a gun that wasnt cleared. At least he was cleaining it so he had to know something but most of us check and double check.

 

Many guns advertise that they will go off without a magazine while some advertise the opposite. My P30 states I can still shoot while the magazine is out and one is in the chamber, so I am not defenseless while reloading.

[KpdPipes 388]

prayers to his family.

 

But it must be said... when fuggin around with his gun, he takes out the magazine... but doesnt clear/check the chamber? And I take it no thumb safety on those glocks?

 

Btw, for the LEO here... Is there a rule or a guideline as to what condition the LEO is to carry their firearm in?

 

Ie, in Israel, it is mandatory for them to carry with a magazine in, however unchambered. They are taught from the beginning to chamber/rack while drawing.

 

Israel also takes training SERIOUSLY. most LE agencies here take training as a necessary evil, and cut the trainig budget as the first line item. SOME departments take it seriously and go above and beyond. Most however do the bare minmum required by the Attorney General's guidelines. Add to that the simple fact that Nj doesnt have a "Gun Culture" and you can see the problem. Since I started i can tell you that out of the 100 or so people that have been hired by my department, 80% or more of them had NEVER touched a Firearm, and out of those who had very few had ever handled a handgun. In some ways its good, because neophytes are easier to train... it's bad however because they also pick up bat attituded towards firearms, and Citizens owning them. MOST of them get to at least be competent and safe, but we just aren't given the resources to REALLY train properly. You wouldnt believe the crap 've taken because i train regularly on my own time and dime.

In this particular case, it;s NOT an uncommon mistake i've seen a dozen or so AD's that happened in this EXACT Manner..and not just from cops. People stop thinking for that split second, or rack out the chamber round, THEN take out the magazine, and this is the kind of thing that happens, Sometimes with just a red face as the result, and sometimes a funeral. All because people get complacent.

[maideneddie 35]

People stop thinking for that split second, or rack out the chamber round, THEN take out the magazine, and this is the kind of thing that happens.

People stop thinking for a second is the biggest point to be made. Humans are by nature to believe that they can master anything. While consistent training can make you better at something, nothing is truly second nature. Complacency is the downfall of man, it gives you a false sense of mastering something. When you think that you know everything your mind shuts down and that is when accidents happen. Safety if the number one thing that should take presidence when handling a firearm. It's to bad that we forget this when we think that we are the best that there is. Human nature is a wicked bi**h!

[rscalzo 3]

the fact that 9/10 NJ policemen can't hit the broadside of a barn with their weapons and it makes them extremely dangerous.

 

And you are basing this on what? Internet lore? I've yet to see any documentation this? Maybe you would like to outline your preformance during an actual deadly force incident?

[Chad 3]

the fact that 9/10 NJ policemen can't hit the broadside of a barn with their weapons and it makes them extremely dangerous.

 

And you are basing this on what? Internet lore? I've yet to see any documentation this? Maybe you would like to outline your preformance during an actual deadly force incident?

 

Yeah really. 9/10?? Thats a bit much. MOST police officers are EXTREMELY proficient with firearms and extremely accurate. There is a VERY small margin of officers that are not good shots (just from my own observations). Lest we forget they must qualify every so often...6 months?

 

My father in law was (retired) the range master and firearms training officer for a large Ocean County police department. I've visited the range with him many times on qualification days. Other departments would also use this range, so I've witnessed many police officers firing their weapons. Again, it is a VERY small number of them that are not accurate. Again, we all have "off" days and our accuracy can diminish drastically. Police officers are in no way exempt from this. It is just unfortunate that off days can be deadly when dealing with safe firearms handling. We all have "oops" moments, it happens to everyone. Sometimes there are just bigger oops. Very sad situation.

[bbk 188]

Well said, Chad. And I agree that most LEOs I've known in person are damn fine shots.