NJ LEGAL M1 CARBINE

[FFDP82 4]

 

Exactly, and because so many people called in, it opened up that can of worms. But as far as the M1's... the ones I saw out of state, that looked like the ones coming here.. said M1.

 

Yeah, change the name of the forums IMO. Last thing we need is 30 days to render them inoperable or remove them from state because they decided to click on this website and see people saying AK and AR.

 

Absolutely ridiculous God I can't wait to move!

[joejaxx 38]

From what I have been researching the only reason I can see so far for the M1 Carbine being banned is because of their use in the 1967 Plainfield Riots. But this is only a guess of course:

 

From the Assault Weapon Ban Blacklist:

 

...

M1 carbine type

...

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

...

 

From wikipedia:

The Plainfield Riots were a series of racially-charged violent disturbances that occurred in Plainfield, New Jersey during the summer of 1967, which mirrored the (1967 Newark riots) in nearby Newark, New Jersey.

 

...

 

That same night in nearby Middlesex an arms factory was broken into and 46 carbines were stolen. The Plainfield Machine Company was a small manufacturing company owned by William Haas and William Stork that, among other things, produced military style M1 carbines for the civilian market. The stolen guns were passed out to the men on the streets of Plainfield that very night.

 

...

 

Even several weeks after the riot, the local police and FBI were still looking for the stolen weapons. No arrests had been made in the theft and only a few of the guns had been recovered.

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plainfield_Riots

[SafetyHit 1]

But as far as the M1's... the ones I saw out of state, that looked like the ones coming here.. said M1.

 

 

 

 

Unless they produced a line of "properly" marked ones to be sent here to NJ, this brings us right back where we started.

 

No different than a MT6400 instead having AR15 on the receiver.

[SafetyHit 1]

From what I have been researching the only reason I can see so far for the M1 Carbine being banned is because of complete and utter shortsightedness.

 

 

 

Fixed it for you.

[FFDP82 4]

From what I have been researching the only reason I can see so far for the M1 Carbine being banned is because of complete and utter shortsightedness.

 

 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

I like you.

[PK90 3,573]

AGAIN, as far as I know, all USGI and commercial variants were marked "US CARBINE" and "CAL. 30 M1". Now we have Auto-Ordnance marking them "US Carbine" and "CAL 30 ML". I am not totally convinced that it was done on purpose. Why change the caliber and not the model name? I think it was a screw up and they went with it, but I may be wrong.

 

ANYWHO, the "M1 carbine type" is what is on the NJ banned list. So, any variation must comply with the 1996 NJAG Guideline. Just like the "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms". I don't see the problem. :roll:

 

IMO, the carbine was placed on the list because of this:

 

[KpdPipes 388]

Here's what happened. Someone who is on OUR SIDE (i know, god forbid there might actually be somone in NJSP who is..according to some here that is an impossibility) Made a judgement call, that would have FINALLY allowed carbines in NJ again. The 50-odd calls per day of people saying "Hey I heard we can have carbines now, is this true???" Brought the letter to the attention of HIS bosses, including the F^^$%$#&$%^ Goddamned Anti-gun AG..who promptly put the Kibosh on it. What WOULD have happened, is that the carbines would have been brought in, people would have bought them and by the time it came to someone's attention, there would have been a couple of hundred of them out there already. At which point, the Ag would have been presnted with a Fait accompli..and POSSIBLY opened us up to relaxing standards on some of the other Non-Military Carbines out there. Oh, and what this ALSO did is ABSOLUTELY Kill the chances of anything like it ever happening again...Nobody will stick their neck out to try and help us anymore since they'll get it broken off in their asses.

[joejaxx 38]

Here's what happened. Someone who is on OUR SIDE (i know, god forbid there might actually be somone in NJSP who is..according to some here that is an impossibility) Made a judgement call, that would have FINALLY allowed carbines in NJ again. The 50-odd calls per day of people saying "Hey I heard we can have carbines now, is this true???" Brought the letter to the attention of HIS bosses, including the F^^$%$#&$%^ Goddamned Anti-gun AG..who promptly put the Kibosh on it. What WOULD have happened, is that the carbines would have been brought in, people would have bought them and by the time it came to someone's attention, there would have been a couple of hundred of them out there already. At which point, the Ag would have been presnted with a Fait accompli..and POSSIBLY opened us up to relaxing standards on some of the other Non-Military Carbines out there. Oh, and what this ALSO did is ABSOLUTELY Kill the chances of anything like it ever happening again...Nobody will stick their neck out to try and help us anymore since they'll get it broken off in their asses.

 

I do not know why everyone is blaming NJSP all the time lol. I heard politicians are implementing laws without asking the police about anything.

 

Examples:

 

1. Smart Guns

2. One Gun a Month etc

[SafetyHit 1]

AGAIN, as far as I know, all USGI and commercial variants were marked "US CARBINE" and "CAL. 30 M1". Now we have Auto-Ordnance marking them "US Carbine" and "CAL 30 ML". I am not totally convinced that it was done on purpose. Why change the caliber and not the model name? I think it was a screw up and they went with it, but I may be wrong.

 

I think it must have been deliberate wording, this because there's just not enough etched on there to screw it up unless they were extremely negligent. But either way, I still don't get it. Does the variation "CAL 30 ML" comply to the NJAG guideline or does it not?

 

ANYWHO, the "M1 carbine type" is what is on the NJ banned list. So, any variation must comply with the 1996 NJAG Guideline. Just like the "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms". I don't see the problem. :roll:

 

I figured you must think they are still OK since you have them marked as "Now NJ legal" on your site. Wow, am I confused.

[matty 810]

Meh. You can't control what people will do, if it was messed up by people calling in 50,000 time a day, I can't say as I really blame some of them, after all who wants to be the test case for some anti-gun prosecutor? Also perhaps a few of those calls were from Anti-Gunners (NJ Ceasefire, et. al perhaps?)

 

Anyway the poor LT in the NJSP that may have had some leeway delegated to him/her to determine if a particular product was legal under the dopey 91 AW ban, now will surely not go out on a limb at all. Nor will his successors. I agree on that.

[KpdPipes 388]

Here's what happened. Someone who is on OUR SIDE (i know, god forbid there might actually be somone in NJSP who is..according to some here that is an impossibility) Made a judgement call, that would have FINALLY allowed carbines in NJ again. The 50-odd calls per day of people saying "Hey I heard we can have carbines now, is this true???" Brought the letter to the attention of HIS bosses, including the F^^$%$#&$%^ Goddamned Anti-gun AG..who promptly put the Kibosh on it. What WOULD have happened, is that the carbines would have been brought in, people would have bought them and by the time it came to someone's attention, there would have been a couple of hundred of them out there already. At which point, the Ag would have been presnted with a Fait accompli..and POSSIBLY opened us up to relaxing standards on some of the other Non-Military Carbines out there. Oh, and what this ALSO did is ABSOLUTELY Kill the chances of anything like it ever happening again...Nobody will stick their neck out to try and help us anymore since they'll get it broken off in their asses.

 

I do not know why everyone is blaming NJSP all the time lol. I heard politicians are implementing laws without asking the police about anything.

 

Examples:

 

1. Smart Guns

2. One Gun a Month etc

In this particular case, as in the CMP issue. NJSP Firearms Unit is the Information Clearinghouse as it were, for questions about legality. they are the same source local departments, NJ FFL's, and Citizens call for information regarding Firearms legality... While the Politicians implemented the law, the Interpreatation comes down to the Firearms Unit.

[ChrisJM981 924]

In this particular case, as in the CMP issue. NJSP Firearms Unit is the Information Clearinghouse as it were, for questions about legality. they are the same source local departments, NJ FFL's, and Citizens call for information regarding Firearms legality... While the Politicians implemented the law, the Interpretation comes down to the Firearms Unit.

 

So whose office do we all show up at the same time to have a gentleman's discussion about the interpretation?

[Babaganoosh 192]

In this particular case, as in the CMP issue. NJSP Firearms Unit is the Information Clearinghouse as it were, for questions about legality. they are the same source local departments, NJ FFL's, and Citizens call for information regarding Firearms legality... While the Politicians implemented the law, the Interpretation comes down to the Firearms Unit.

 

So whose office do we all show up at the same time to have a gentleman's discussion about the interpretation?

 

Thats what I am wondering. Lets say a group of people wanted to try and repeal the banning of the m1 carbine. How would it be approached?

[BRN169 6]

AGAIN, as far as I know, all USGI and commercial variants were marked "US CARBINE" and "CAL. 30 M1". Now we have Auto-Ordnance marking them "US Carbine" and "CAL 30 ML". I am not totally convinced that it was done on purpose. Why change the caliber and not the model name? I think it was a screw up and they went with it, but I may be wrong.

 

ANYWHO, the "M1 carbine type" is what is on the NJ banned list. So, any variation must comply with the 1996 NJAG Guideline. Just like the "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms". I don't see the problem. :roll:

 

IMO, the carbine was placed on the list because of this:

 

 

Don't forget that the "ML" history predates Auto Ordnance's M1 Carbine, the IAI M1 carbines which went into production in 1996 (2 years after the federal ban and the same year people were chincing away at both the NJ and CA AW bans) was stamped with "ML"

 

 

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_iai.html

[Caine 147]

And since AO is using the same mold as IAI was using, we have the AO "ML"...

 

I don't see an M1... do you?

[PK90 3,573]

Don't forget that the "ML" history predates Auto Ordnance's M1 Carbine, the IAI M1 carbines which went into production in 1996 (2 years after the federal ban and the same year people were chincing away at both the NJ and CA AW bans) was stamped with "ML"

Interesting. I did not know that.

 

I guess I should have looked closer at this one that i acquired over 4 years ago.

 

v

[Maksim 1,504]

What does ML stand for?

[PK90 3,573]

What does ML stand for?

1,050

[SafetyHit 1]

What does ML stand for?

 

 

My money would be on "military".

 

Either way, the basis for this conversation is beyond asinine. To think that these fools in the state have us law abiding folks working so hard to decipher such irrelevant minutia is simply pathetic.

[BRN169 6]

Pardon my ignorance here, but why is the State Police determining what is legal or illegal? Isn't that the job of the courts? I thought the courts interpret the law and the police just enforce it. Or, when I got a ticket way back when and the cop told me, "I don't make the laws I just enforce them." he was full of ****.

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping this concept as well.

 

According to my 8th grade civics teacher:

 

The legislature makes the laws

The judicial branch interprets them

The police enforce them*

 

*Except in NJ, the police also get to decide what is legal or not?

 

 

This is the problem with people making laws that effect things they know absolutely nothing about... Basically a 51% majority of hoplophobes passed a law banning these evil things they had seen in movies and books without any basic knowledge of them what so ever. So at this point everyone is trying to interpret the law; the AG, the cops, the manufacturers, distributors, the dealers and ultimately the pee-ons like us that would inevitably pay the price for running afoul of the intentionally vague and poorly written law. Is it a wonder hundreds of people inundated the NJSP with calls about the legality of the damned thing?

[BRN169 6]

Don't forget that the "ML" history predates Auto Ordnance's M1 Carbine, the IAI M1 carbines which went into production in 1996 (2 years after the federal ban and the same year people were chincing away at both the NJ and CA AW bans) was stamped with "ML"

Interesting. I did not know that.

 

I guess I should have looked closer at this one that i acquired over 4 years ago.

 

v

 

I told you I've been fighting over these damned things for 12 years...

 

That looks like one of the second or third gen investment cast receivers...

[PK90 3,573]

That looks like one of the second or third gen investment cast receivers...

I'm going to get around to building it someday with the complete USGI kit i also picked up. :mrgreen:

[BRN169 6]

That looks like one of the second or third gen investment cast receivers...

I'm going to get around to building it someday with the complete USGI kit i also picked up. :mrgreen:

 

I never thought to check but indeed the Auto Ordnance receiver is manufactured by Khar from the old IAI receiver mold... Apparently Khar aquired the euipment when IAI went belly up in 2003...

 

 

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_kahr.html

[KpdPipes 388]

Pardon my ignorance here, but why is the State Police determining what is legal or illegal? Isn't that the job of the courts? I thought the courts interpret the law and the police just enforce it. Or, when I got a ticket way back when and the cop told me, "I don't make the laws I just enforce them." he was full of ****.

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping this concept as well.

 

According to my 8th grade civics teacher:

 

The legislature makes the laws

The judicial branch interprets them

The police enforce them*

 

*Except in NJ, the police also get to decide what is legal or not?

 

 

This is the problem with people making laws that effect things they know absolutely nothing about... Basically a 51% majority of hoplophobes passed a law banning these evil things they had seen in movies and books without any basic knowledge of them what so ever. So at this point everyone is trying to interpret the law; the AG, the cops, the manufacturers, distributors, the dealers and ultimately the pee-ons like us that would inevitably pay the price for running afoul of the intentionally vague and poorly written law. Is it a wonder hundreds of people inundated the NJSP with calls about the legality of the damned thing?

ROFLMAO 51%??? More like 90% This is NJ, where even the "Republicans" are anti-gun.

[BRN169 6]

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping this concept as well.

 

According to my 8th grade civics teacher:

 

The legislature makes the laws

The judicial branch interprets them

The police enforce them*

 

*Except in NJ, the police also get to decide what is legal or not?

 

 

This is the problem with people making laws that effect things they know absolutely nothing about... Basically a 51% majority of hoplophobes passed a law banning these evil things they had seen in movies and books without any basic knowledge of them what so ever. So at this point everyone is trying to interpret the law; the AG, the cops, the manufacturers, distributors, the dealers and ultimately the pee-ons like us that would inevitably pay the price for running afoul of the intentionally vague and poorly written law. Is it a wonder hundreds of people inundated the NJSP with calls about the legality of the damned thing?

ROFLMAO 51%??? More like 90% This is NJ, where even the "Republicans" are anti-gun.

 

It was more like 21/17 Senate 43/33 Assembly... They weren't all complete idiots back then. The Senate approved the bill with the minimum number of 21 votes required. One of which was a Republican, Bill Gormley.

 

Bill Gormley - ''I had the opportunity as a United States marine to fire an M-16, and I know what damage they can do.'' ''We need to send a message to the N.R.A., and the special interest groups who don't care about our children and don't care about the future of our state, to tell them we're not going to stand for it.''

- Tool

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/20/nyregion/votes-on-new-jersey-s-gun-bill.html?scp=4&sq=New+Jersey+Assault+Weapons&st=nyt

[joejaxx 38]

They got one thing right LMFAO The N.R.A. still does not care about the future of New Jersey

[Mauser88 0]

Good luck with that.

 

No way this will ever be NJ legal.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Pk has them on his site for 750 and in red letters it says...NOW NJ LEGAL.

 

Might wanna update that unless he knows something he isn't sharing!!

[PK90 3,573]

Pk has them on his site for 750 and in red letters it says...NOW NJ LEGAL.

 

Might wanna update that unless he knows something he isn't sharing!!

DONE

[Babaganoosh 192]

Pk has them on his site for 750 and in red letters it says...NOW NJ LEGAL.

 

Might wanna update that unless he knows something he isn't sharing!!

DONE