State of Emergency and our guns

[Genewarper111 18]

So - we have elsewhere a great thread about the snow (we had 15 inches here btw - sounds like we were lucky) but nothing about the effect , if any, on whether the State of Emergency declared over the snow affects the gun laws in NJ.

 

I have no clue, although I have heard that in some states all bets are off during an SOE. Does anyone know about NJ?

 

best

G

[ianargent 7]

I'd have to double-check, but I believe that sales of firearms and ammo may be suspended during a declared SoE.

 

Other than that, bupkis. NJ's gun laws consist of a glacis of "verboten" with nothing really behind it. Maginot Line of legal language, and if the "forbidden, but for..." language is struck down, it'll be interesting to say the least.

[Bob B 103]

I'd have to double-check, but I believe that sales of firearms and ammo may be suspended during a declared SoE.

 

Other than that, bupkis. NJ's gun laws consist of a glacis of "verboten" with nothing really behind it. Maginot Line of legal language, and if the "forbidden, but for..." language is struck down, it'll be interesting to say the least.

 

That's correct. It's in the Administrative Code. All sales of firearms and ammunition are suspended "upon notification" during a "civil distrubance or other emergency." It's not a criminal statute, but the retailer could lose his license for violating the code.

 

§ 13:54-6.7 Regulations during a civil disturbance or declared emergency period

 

(a) In the interest of the public health, safety and welfare, firearms dealers shall discontinue the sale of firearms and ammunition upon notification by the Superintendent or the chief of police of the municipality where the firearms dealers’ business is located, that a civil disturbance or other emergency exists.

 

( b ) Those businesses affected shall not resume the sale of firearms or ammunition until such time as the Superintendent or the chief of police of the municipality determines that the civil disturbance or other emergency no longer exists.

 

( c ) All dealers located in the area affected by such disturbance or emergency shall be required to comply with one of the following:

 

1. Arrange with the chief of police officer of the municipality for appropriate security of firearms and ammunition; or

 

2. Remove all firearms and ammunition from the business premises to a secure location.

 

(d) Failure of the dealer to comply with any of the above requirements may result in the revocation of the license of such dealer.

[Jon 264]

That's correct. It's in the Administrative Code. All sales of firearms and ammunition are suspended during a State of Emergency. It's not a criminal statute, but the retailer could loose his license for violating the code.

 

This appears to affect only those businesses where the Municipality has declared a State of Emergency, not the State itself.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Would NICS even be open in an SoE?

[Bob B 103]

(a) In the interest of the public health, safety and welfare, firearms dealers shall discontinue the sale of firearms and ammunition upon notification by the Superintendent or the chief of police of the municipality where the firearms dealers’ business is located, that a civil disturbance or other emergency exists.

 

 

This appears to affect only those businesses where the Municipality has declared a State of Emergency, not the State itself.

 

It can be either. Note that it can be a "civil distrubance or other emergency." It does not have to be a declared state of emergency.

[mcbethr 42]

I think this is a non-issue.

 

If it were that bad of an emergency, you wouldn't have to issue an executive order to close gun shops. NJ NICS would be closed for one reason or another, making firearms transactions impossible by default and resulting in a stoppage of transactions for bureaucratic reasons.

 

I also think that the purpose of these "State of Emergency" laws is to prevent mass waves of panicked people from running off to the gun store and buying their first gun just because something Very Bad happened on the news and they suddenly want protection. The merits of this policy can be argued, but that's not the point of this response.

 

Unlike other states, in NJ you have to have a Firearms ID card to purchase weapons or ammunition. I would imagine that most FID holders already own a gun, which was probably purchased the very day they got their permit. There may be some FID holders who have sold all of their guns for financial reasons, but I'd say that for all practical purposes, every FID holder probably owns at least one gun.

 

That being said, I think that the odds of FID holders running out and purchasing weapons in an emergency is very low because they will already be at home with their gun and darned if they are going to leave. In New Jersey, the average person cannot suddenly decide that they want a gun and go get one the very same day unless they have an FID. So closing gun stores would do little or nothing because FID holders won't go out to buy them and non-FID holders probably don't even know where to go to buy a gun, and wouldn't be allowed to buy one anyway if they did.

 

I'd imagine that closing gun stores is far down the priority list for anybody in state government since access is limited anyway.

 

It would be interesting to be working at a gunshop in South Jersey if some sort of emergency happened and all of the wealthy middle-aged men who have something to lose suddenly converge at Dicks to buy a gun to protect their homes. When they are told that they can't buy a gun with out an FID, background check, and 30 day wait... well I'd imagine that Noah probably saw the same kind of looks as he closed up the Arc.

 

 

It can be either. Note that it can be a "civil distrubance or other emergency." It does not have to be a declared state of emergency.

[vladtepes 1,060]

It would be interesting to be working at a gunshop in South Jersey if some sort of emergency happened and all of the wealthy middle-aged men who have something to lose suddenly converge at Dicks to buy a gun to protect their homes. When they are told that they can't buy a gun with out an FID, background check, and 30 day wait... well I'd imagine that Noah probably saw the same kind of looks as he closed up the Arc.

 

 

I do not know the exact statistics per person.. per area.. but what I can tell you is south jersey already has pretty high levels of private gun ownership.. I don't think it would be the rich of south jersey because most of those people already own guns.. granted they are typically hunting type guns.. shotguns.. rifles.. but they are owned.. most people I am friendly with own at least one gun..

[mcbethr 42]

I suppose I should have been more specific. When I think of South Jersey, I think of my friends and neighbors in Cherry Hill and Voorhees. Very Liberal. Very Jewish. Granted I'm a liberal and a Jew as well, but I caught the Skeet bug a number of years ago and I never looked back. But when I think of South Jersey, my little part of the world comes to mind. And of course a town full of hunters like Audubon, Berlin or Atco would be a lot different than Cherry Hill, but it would still be considered South Jersey. My bad.

 

I recall hearing that during the LA Riots, people flocked to gun stores in California to buy a weapon to protect their home - only to find out that they had to wait 10 days. And why did they have to wait 10 days? Because they voted for those laws themselves. If you ever find yourself thinking "boy, I really wish I had a shotgun right now" it too late to get that shotgun.

 

But I could imagine my neighbors driving to Dicks over the objections of their wives to buy a shotgun, only to get a harsh lesson in reality when the employee can't even take it off the shelf for them.

 

I do not know the exact statistics per person.. per area.. but what I can tell you is south jersey already has pretty high levels of private gun ownership.. I don't think it would be the rich of south jersey because most of those people already own guns.. granted they are typically hunting type guns.. shotguns.. rifles.. but they are owned.. most people I am friendly with own at least one gun..

[Parker 213]

I do not know the exact statistics per person.. per area.. but what I can tell you is south jersey already has pretty high levels of private gun ownership.. I don't think it would be the rich of south jersey because most of those people already own guns.. granted they are typically hunting type guns.. shotguns.. rifles.. but they are owned.. most people I am friendly with own at least one gun.

This discussion makes me recall when NICS was down for a few days during the week of 9-11.

 

As for NICS transactions, New Jersey seems to have broken the monthly record for NICS checks this year in the month of November based on FBI data. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/state-totals_1998-2010-2?12

 

Still, for a state of almost 9 million people, this represents a very small percentage.

[Steve_G 51]

This discussion makes me recall when NICS was down for a few days during the week of 9-11.

 

As for NICS transactions, New Jersey seems to have broken the monthly record for NICS checks this year in the month of November based on FBI data. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/state-totals_1998-2010-2?12

 

Still, for a state of almost 9 million people, this represents a very small percentage.

 

Look at the numbers for Kentucky

[Maksim 1,504]

If you want to buy a long gun, just go to PA or NY. Easy.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I suppose I should have been more specific. When I think of South Jersey, I think of my friends and neighbors in Cherry Hill and Voorhees. Very Liberal. Very Jewish. Granted I'm a liberal and a Jew as well, but I caught the Skeet bug a number of years ago and I never looked back. But when I think of South Jersey, my little part of the world comes to mind. And of course a town full of hunters like Audubon, Berlin or Atco would be a lot different than Cherry Hill, but it would still be considered South Jersey. My bad.

 

I recall hearing that during the LA Riots, people flocked to gun stores in California to buy a weapon to protect their home - only to find out that they had to wait 10 days. And why did they have to wait 10 days? Because they voted for those laws themselves. If you ever find yourself thinking "boy, I really wish I had a shotgun right now" it too late to get that shotgun.

 

But I could imagine my neighbors driving to Dicks over the objections of their wives to buy a shotgun, only to get a harsh lesson in reality when the employee can't even take it off the shelf for them.

 

ah fair enough.. I was dancing around the "liberal" type discussion.. as I try to avoid using any political words on this forum.. lol.. but yeah in my neck of the woods (and it is woods)... there are not a ton of liberals.. mostly gun owning hunters.. Leeds Point, Port Republic, etc.. not a ton of anti-gun people there..

[Parker 213]

Look at the numbers for Kentucky

I believe Kentucky SP re-check the "legal fitness" of every past and present CCW license. Past license holders of CCW are run through NICS each month.

[223lover 9]

Martha? Martha! Where are those brass things we put in the gun I bought that time there were those riots in Newark? Guess I'll run down to Dick's and buy a new box. I could have sworn they were right here in my sock drawer........

[Malsua 1,422]

Here's something from North Carolina. These asinine laws need struck from the books. Carry becomes more imperative during a state of emergency because the regular checks on uncivil behavior break down.

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http://nannystateliberationfront.net/2010/12/28/blizzard-strips-gun-owners-of-concealed-carry-privilege/

 

Blizzard Strips Gun Owners of Concealed Carry Privilege

Posted on December 28, 2010 by Nanny State Liberation Front| 4 Comments

Criminals can still pack heat during a state of emergency because they've never allowed the law to stand in the way of victimizing anyone. What's wrong with this picture?

 

 

The recent blizzard that hammered North Carolina is also taking its toll on the state’s law abiding gun owners. Citizens possessing concealed carry permits who are caught packing heat during the “state of emergency” will be subject to criminal charges, per the state’s firearms law.

 

On Christmas Day, Lt. Governor Walter Dalton, in consultation with Governor Bev Perdue, called in the National Guard as snow covered every county in the state. Once a state of emergency is declared, concealed carry permits become null and void, and those who aren’t familiar with this bizarre stipulation in the law are subject to arrest and criminal prosecution:

 

It is also a misdemeanor under North Carolina law for a person to transport or possess, off his or her own premises, a dangerous weapon in an area during a declared state of emergency, or in the vicinity of a riot. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-288.7

 

Can you find any logic in North Carolina’s firearms law for stripping law abiding gun owners of their concealed carry privileges during inclement weather?

[Dan 177]

Here's something from North Carolina. These asinine laws need struck from the books. Carry becomes more imperative during a state of emergency because the regular checks on uncivil behavior break down.

------------

http://nannystateliberationfront.net/2010/12/28/blizzard-strips-gun-owners-of-concealed-carry-privilege/

 

Blizzard Strips Gun Owners of Concealed Carry Privilege

Posted on December 28, 2010 by Nanny State Liberation Front| 4 Comments

Criminals can still pack heat during a state of emergency because they've never allowed the law to stand in the way of victimizing anyone. What's wrong with this picture?

 

 

The recent blizzard that hammered North Carolina is also taking its toll on the state’s law abiding gun owners. Citizens possessing concealed carry permits who are caught packing heat during the “state of emergency” will be subject to criminal charges, per the state’s firearms law.

 

On Christmas Day, Lt. Governor Walter Dalton, in consultation with Governor Bev Perdue, called in the National Guard as snow covered every county in the state. Once a state of emergency is declared, concealed carry permits become null and void, and those who aren’t familiar with this bizarre stipulation in the law are subject to arrest and criminal prosecution:

 

It is also a misdemeanor under North Carolina law for a person to transport or possess, off his or her own premises, a dangerous weapon in an area during a declared state of emergency, or in the vicinity of a riot. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-288.7

 

Can you find any logic in North Carolina’s firearms law for stripping law abiding gun owners of their concealed carry privileges during inclement weather?

 

"State of Emergency" is a broadly used condition, could be blizzards, earthquakes, hurricanes, civil unrest, insurgency, etc. They just chose to put constitutional rights on hold during the general call of State of Emergency without going into specifics into what particular kind or reason the SOE was called for.

 

I know I've heard of a few states specifying that gun confiscations will not happen during SOE's, haven't heard anything regarding limiting CCW's or Carry rights.