Wearing a Holstered Gun on Property.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Carry for your protection, but be discreet.

 

So no 5-man sniper team on the roof of my house while shoveling snow?

[Malsua 1,422]

do you have a duty to retreat when you are on your property OUTSIDE your home?

 

If you don't intend to use force, you have no duty to retreat. The law allows you to take the beating or the shooting. If you intend to use force and you can retreat in safety then you must retreat unless you are in your dwelling.

 

(B) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor

[georgemc 18]

How about having it holstered inside your house, and leave the blinds open. Maybe he would see what you're carrying. Could make him think twice about next time.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I think the problem is.. if the neighbor sees the gun period.. he MAY say "that guy threatened me with this big black handgun.." and then the police say.. sir did you threaten him? do you own a gun? and next thing you know the OP shows the LEO his Glock.. and they say to themselves.. hmm.. if you didn't threaten him.. how exactly could this guy who you hate KNOW that you have a black handgun..

 

I think the guy thinking that the OP is unarmed is likely in his best interest.. carrying legally ON his property concealed as recommended might be a good idea.. I just don't know the legal repercussions if something happens to happen outside the home..

[Wojo 98]

Just throwing this out there.

 

If you are in your yard doing whatever and some perp comes onto your property carrying a pointed stick or something, are you supposed to run away from your property? What if the perp is between you and your door to get back into your house to call for help? How far does our legal system think is reasonable to flee in your own yard? If your wife and kids are in the house and a perp tries to enter your house, are you supposed to stay safety outside?

[Babaganoosh 192]

This situation shows just how bad NJ laws are. This guy started out with the 4 foot ice chipper and was pointing it at me and pretty much threatening me with it. At this point it is borderline if I can do anything. What would the cops have done? The thing is a deadly weapon for sure. If he smashed me with it Im gonna be hurt bad for sure.

 

Now imagine if he stepped on my property and hit me with it. Its terrible that I still would not be able to shoot him (If I was carrying legally on my property)due to the laws. I know at this point the police would def have shot him.

 

Once he took his jacket off, threw it down and started advancing on me I thought we would be fighting. I think the only thing that stopped him was the 2 foot snow bank and me telling him that I was calling the cops. Guarantee if I pushed his buttons a little he would have swung on me. However I would have stayed on my property and waited for him to cross the property line. The second he touched foot on my driveway I would have rushed him and tackled him.

 

Its just appalling that he could walk 3 feet, smash me with a 4 foot wood and metal tool yet I am still not justified if I shoot him.

[e80hydro 120]

Like a few others have said, I'd avoid this guy. The last thing you want is him capturing something your doing wrong on his cell phone and turning you into the cops. The good thing is it's a rental and you can get out of there pretty easily if you have too.

 

That being said, I'd carpet bomb the hell out of his next picnic with liquid a**.

[Dan 177]

(B) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

This is key here. If you are not in your "dwelling". You would not be justified in using deadly force if there is any reason to believe that you knew you could get away safely instead of using deadly force.

 

Its a preponderance of the evidence in each situation that determines this. Sometimes the cops/prosecutor will see there is obviously no case(i.e. they would look like fools dragging you into court). Or there will be questions, and its not so clear cut that you were justified in using deadly force.

 

So many variables could determine if you could retreat safely. Common sense multiplied by 5 for living in NJ.

 

More than "It's coming right for us!" http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149674/its-coming-right-for-us

[vladtepes 1,060]

This situation shows just how bad NJ laws are. This guy started out with the 4 foot ice chipper and was pointing it at me and pretty much threatening me with it. At this point it is borderline if I can do anything. What would the cops have done? The thing is a deadly weapon for sure. If he smashed me with it Im gonna be hurt bad for sure.

 

Now imagine if he stepped on my property and hit me with it. Its terrible that I still would not be able to shoot him (If I was carrying legally on my property)due to the laws. I know at this point the police would def have shot him.

 

Once he took his jacket off, threw it down and started advancing on me I thought we would be fighting. I think the only thing that stopped him was the 2 foot snow bank and me telling him that I was calling the cops. Guarantee if I pushed his buttons a little he would have swung on me. However I would have stayed on my property and waited for him to cross the property line. The second he touched foot on my driveway I would have rushed him and tackled him.

 

Its just appalling that he could walk 3 feet, smash me with a 4 foot wood and metal tool yet I am still not justified if I shoot him.

 

I have felt first hand how the state views people who defend themselves...

 

I used to work at a grocery store and was friendly with this girl.. her boyfriend worked there as well..

he turned out to be a real scumbag so she used to talk to me about it...

one thing lead to another..

he finds out.. quits over something unrelated...

one day I am working outside the grocery store and him and his friend are sitting there smoking and talking (which was odd since he quit working there)

he talks and chit chats as if nothing is wrong says he had to stop for paperwork or something...

the second I turn my back they jump me.. we fight it out and I get hold of him hitting him and wont let go.. his friend picks up the cigarette and starts to burn my back with it telling me he has a knife and is going to stab me if I don't let his friend go..

I eventually let him go and they leave.. police come I press charges because my work encouraged me to.. he is arrested charged and so on..

before the court date he retains a lawyer and he signs a counter complaint for the same thing..

I show up at court the entire situation is viewed as mutual combat and I am encouraged to dismiss my charges and settle it.. I do because I am young and stupid and don't want the potential blemish on my record...

 

but it taught me a valuable lesson.. in NJ.. the law.. it just doesn't care.. right and wrong doesn't matter.. the speed and cleanliness in which matters can be dealt with is king.. to the judge that day.. we looked like a couple of young guys who got in a fight.. luckily I was able to defend myself.. but the law didn't care who started it, who was the aggresor.. they didn't care that these individuals thought things out.. planned to attack me..

 

I would shoot someone in NJ if they forced themselves in my house.. if I had no other option.. and was backed in a corner.. I would shoot if I were %100 sure that there was no other way around it...

 

don't assume just because someone steps on your property you are in the right to confront and fight them.. with the way NJ is.. who knows..

 

mind your business... ignore the idiot.. and move on with your life.. and ideally move.. PA is close enough.. and NJ is really not all that great.. people like the guy you live next to just make it worse..

[KpdPipes 388]

you can carry at the place you rent...

you can carry on your property (unless there are some strange laws I am not aware of.. and maybe even certain municipalities..)

 

but as far as I am aware... if someone represents a threat OUTSIDE your home.. you are not protected by the same laws that you are protected by IN the home... again just my understanding I may be wrong.. it is my understanding that if someone ENTERS your home (rented or owned) and presents a threat you can shoot them if you feel you are in immediate danger.. but outside? don't think the law protects you in the same way... so carrying a gun outside is not really going to help you..

 

if he sees the gun... he will claim you threatened him...

if you get in a physical fight you need to focus on retaining the weapon...

if you get attacked and USE the gun (outside) I am pretty sure you are in a world of trouble...so in this situation.. carrying concealed outside might be ok.. providing you are prepared to deal with the worst... but I would just leave the gun inside given this specific situation..

That the Targets however are NOT a Bad idea.... I have some cardboard FBI "Q" targets if you want them.. maybe a couple next to your garbage cans in view with some nice CoM groups will make him think a bet before running his suck-hole.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Ok on the complaint form it says I have to put down what I want to charge him with. It says list statutes/ordinances.

 

What should I put for that? Anyone have any ideas?

 

He threatened me verbally, he pointed and slammed around the 4 foot ice chipper at me(looks like a shovel with a different blade). He made about 5 steps towards me both when he was ripping his jacket off and after. While he was yelling "Ill show you who the fugg I am, Lets do this, Lets do this"

 

The form says that the court cant advise on what to put down.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ok on the complaint form it says I have to put down what I want to charge him with. It says list statutes/ordinances.

 

is being an asshole one of the options?

 

all kidding aside it must have some kind of choices?

[Babaganoosh 192]

That the Targets however are NOT a Bad idea.... I have some cardboard FBI "Q" targets if you want them.. maybe a couple next to your garbage cans in view with some nice CoM groups will make him think a bet before running his suck-hole.

 

 

Thanks for the offer but I happen to have a bunch of the ones that they use for USPSA and a bunch of silhoutte targets stapled onto 36" by 36" pieces of cardboard. Mostly center mass and headshots. Im gonna make sure I pull them out of my trunk and put them in the garbage next time I see him outside.

[Babaganoosh 192]

is being an asshole one of the options?

 

all kidding aside it must have some kind of choices?

 

 

No choices. Its blank. just says list ordinances/statutes that I would want to charge him with

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks for the offer but I happen to have a bunch of the ones that they use for USPSA and a bunch of silhoutte targets stapled onto 36" by 36" pieces of cardboard. Mostly center mass and headshots. Im gonna make sure I pull them out of my trunk and put them in the garbage next time I see him outside.

 

 

why not paint in giant red letters on the front lawn

 

"Burglarize me I have a stash of expensive guns that you can sell on the street!"

 

no offense or anything.. I am just as much a proud gun owner as the next guy.. but I fail to see the positive of advertising that you own firearms..

 

it is NOT going to make that guy scared... anyone who would act the way he did to you indicates that he is not really concerned with you or your reaction.. for all he knew you could have been a cop with a gun on you.. he obviously has no regard for anything...

[bry@n 195]

I would say terroristic threats. Do you know his name? Ask the mailman if you don't.

 

I am a loud mouth ex Ny'er but that whole I'll show you bs is for the birds. He was just trying to intimidate you. I would have pushed his buttons tho. Thats just me.

 

 

Also, a huge delivery of sh!t or dirt in his driveway is also a warning shot for him. Next would be a concrete truck.

 

I'd be laughing my a** off when he came home to horse sh!t all over his driveway. haha

[vladtepes 1,060]

No choices. Its blank. just says list ordinances/statutes that I would want to charge him with

 

 

just write "hate crime" that normally gets some attention.. what a ridiculous form.. "oh you want to press charges against someone who wronged you? ok here go ahead.. charge him.. we will NOT tell you the laws you just have to make it up" where exactly does the tax money go?

[PK90 3,570]

2C:12-1a(3) Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.

Simple assault is a disorderly persons offense unless committed in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense.

Ask for a court hearing, not a Community Dispute Resolution Committee hand-slapping.

[Babaganoosh 192]

2C:12-1a(3) Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.

Simple assault is a disorderly persons offense unless committed in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense.

Ask for a court hearing, not a Community Dispute Resolution Committee hand-slapping.

 

That looks about right to me. I was looking over the laws and that seems to fit the best. Im thinking harassment as well, not sure if I should stick to just one though.

[vladtepes 1,060]

2C:12-1a(3) Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.

Simple assault is a disorderly persons offense unless committed in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense.

Ask for a court hearing, not a Community Dispute Resolution Committee hand-slapping.

 

 

is that normal to have someone ask to sign a complaint and make THEM figure out the exact charge? seems like a ridiculous system..

[Babaganoosh 192]

is that normal to have someone ask to sign a complaint and make THEM figure out the exact charge? seems like a ridiculous system..

 

Looks like a standard form. It doesnt look Belmar specific.

[PK90 3,570]

You will be acting as your own prosecutor. You should know the laws and be prepared to try the case. The State isn't going to help you. You'll have to prove probable cause and show evidence. Not your word against his word. GOOD LUCK.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Looks like a standard form. It doesnt look Belmar specific.

 

I am sure the form is standard.. but it seems like an odd practice to have a lay person fill out something they do not specialize in..

 

imagine if when you went to the doctor they handed you a form and said fill out EXACTLY what procedure you need done, and EXACTLY what medication you will need following the surgery.. we will be right with you.. WTH would you do? lol

[vladtepes 1,060]

You will be acting as your own prosecutor. You should know the laws and be prepared to try the case. The State isn't going to help you. You'll have to prove probable cause and show evidence. Not your word against his word. GOOD LUCK.

 

 

without over reading into this.. are you telling him not to waste his time?

 

because he will NEVER prove that case..

[PK90 3,570]

Got witnesses? Got evidence? You decide.

 

 

[Babaganoosh 192]

You will be acting as your own prosecutor. You should know the laws and be prepared to try the case. The State isn't going to help you. You'll have to prove probable cause and show evidence. Not your word against his word. GOOD LUCK.

 

 

Im figuring it might be more trouble then its worth. Im gonna follow thru for a few reasons. #1. I wouldn't mind seeing how this whole system works. #2 If it does work, it's gonna jam him up enough to inconvienence him. I live and work locally. His work truck has NY plates, a NY address, and his primary residence is 40 minutes away.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Got witnesses? Got evidence? You decide.

 

Well when the cops came he was still outside with the ice chipper, and he started with my upstairs neighbor a few days beforehand. when I told her the story she said she would make a statement about that if needed. The investigating officers said they didn't think he was telling the truth. Yup, thats all I got but it's better than nothing.

[e80hydro 120]

Let's say you succesfuly prosecute this guy. He's found guilty of harrasment or whatever. What will his penalty be? Will he go to jail? A $300.00 fine? PTI? You still have to live next to this guy. Will you wake up one morning and find a street sign through your windshield?

[bulpup 98]

So no 5-man sniper team on the roof of my house while shoveling snow?

 

snipers are pretty discrete. Go for it.

 

Is "menacing" a misdomeanor in NJ like in NY?

The cops were aleedy there so if nothing happens past that he gets away with it. In my experience people like that

already have a few knocks against them so shake it out and see. The neighbors willing to sign a complaint has me sold. If they refuse i wouldn't touch it again.

 

In the meantime, this situations well taken care of with some high grade OC spray. It may not be entirely legal but it is not a pistol. It has range outside of his 4 foot picker and is generally seen as the weapon of a victim. People carry it when they fear dogs, who is to say?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Let's say you succesfuly prosecute this guy. He's found guilty of harrasment or whatever. What will his penalty be? Will he go to jail? A $300.00 fine? PTI? You still have to live next to this guy. Will you wake up one morning and find a street sign through your windshield?

 

+1

I would follow his advice..

 

any quantifiable harm done? no

did you feel scared for your life? since you said you were ready to fight him I would say no

is pressing charges going to fix it? my guess no it may likely make it worse..

 

like I was saying earlier.. you called the police.. I guess they took a report? so if anything happens later you can point back to that..

 

let just be real.. this is likely some cocky asshole (NY style) who lives his life intimidating people.. being loud.. and being annoying.. you really can't fix people like that.. there is something wrong with them.. anyone over lets say 22 who seeks conflict on a regular basis is too dumb to teach.. if by your early 20s you have not learned that getting in fights more of a hassle than anything else, you are dumb.. like dumb as a rock.. go find a big rock in your back yard and reason with it.. that is the equivalent to what you are seeking here..

 

to jump through 8 million hoops.. waste time.. effort.. to accomplish next to nothing.. seems like a poor investment to me..