Can a company buy a gun?

[Nilzlofgren 0]

Hello. I apologize, for this long post, but I just want to give all the details I can, so I get the best possible answer. I work near an airport, And our line of work attracts seagulls. We have to keep the seagulls off of our property, to avoid accidents between them and aircraft. We have a NJDEP permit to shoot a certain amount of gulls per day. The way this worked in the past, was that when it was needed, an employee would bring their personal firearm to the site, and eliminate the gulls. This has changed. Our company wants a certain employee, who does not own a firearm to go through the permitting process, and buy a shotgun. This employee would be the only one allowed to shoot seagulls. Our company than wants to reimburse this employee for the shotgun, and keep it on the premises. I believe the company and the employee would unknowingly be committing a straw purchase. Am I correct? Is there a provision in the New Jersey firearms laws that allow for a company to purchase a firearm? Thank you in advance for your answers. John.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Amazing question

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'd love to hear the answer on this.

 

On a side note, if I'm the guy that the gun is registered to than there is no way in hell I'm leaving it behind. If someone steals it or it ends up missing it's my @$$ on the line, not the company's.

[SJ Shooter 10]

How can I apply for that job? ...and btw how many can you shoot a day?

[Anselmo 87]

How is it a straw purchase? A straw purchase is when eligible person A buys a gun and sells it to person B who did not go through the background checks.

 

In your case Person A is getting an FID and buying a shotgun. All perfectly legal. As the shotgun and permitting process is a business expense, his company is reimbursing him. That is fine.

 

The company does not own the gun, the employee owns the gun and as you say, he is the only one allowed to use it.

 

Keeping it on the premises is the only thing I'm not clear on but if it's legal for Person A to drive around with shotgun in his car, I'd assume it's legal to keep at work.

[SpecialK 193]

are you accepting applications for this position? I really could use a new shotgun.

 

Why would it have to remain on the premise? If only the one employee is going to be allowed to shoot it then why is it not just kept in that employees possession?

 

I remember being in a conversation on THR about this a long time ago. The end decision was that a company cannot own a firearm I believe. Here's the thread http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-447374.html

 

If we weren't in NJ my same offer to the guy in that thread of buying it and loaning it to you would stand, but not an option here as New Jersey is a terrible terrible place.

[e80hydro 120]

Most of the people on this forum would do it for free.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Most of the people on this forum would do it for free.

 

I'd pay to shoot Canadian Geese. They make the parks a mine field with their nasty droppings.

[KpdPipes 388]

are you accepting applications for this position? I really could use a new shotgun.

 

Why would it have to remain on the premise? If only the one employee is going to be allowed to shoot it then why is it not just kept in that employees possession?

 

I remember being in a conversation on THR about this a long time ago. The end decision was that a company cannot own a firearm I believe. Here's the thread http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-447374.html

 

If we weren't in NJ my same offer to the guy in that thread of buying it and loaning it to you would stand, but not an option here as New Jersey is a terrible terrible place.

 

many security companies own the firearms their employees carry on duty.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

many security companies own the firearms their employees carry on duty.

 

My brother-in-law works for a Nuclear power plant in California and he turns in his side arm after every shift.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I can't speak for NJ, but in the free parts of this country companies and trusts buy full autos for investment purposes. This is one way some people get around the ATF fingerprinting requirement when applying for class 3 or DD tax stamps, they start a company and have the company own them.

[Nilzlofgren 0]

How can I apply for that job? ...and btw how many can you shoot a day?

I believe it is 15 per day.

 

 

How is it a straw purchase? A straw purchase is when eligible person A buys a gun and sells it to person B who did not go through the background checks.

 

In your case Person A is getting an FID and buying a shotgun. All perfectly legal. As the shotgun and permitting process is a business expense, his company is reimbursing him. That is fine.

 

The company does not own the gun, the employee owns the gun and as you say, he is the only one allowed to use it.

 

Keeping it on the premises is the only thing I'm not clear on but if it's legal for Person A to drive around with shotgun in his car, I'd assume it's legal to keep at work.

I never said it was. I am posting the question to find out if it is.

 

 

are you accepting applications for this position? I really could use a new shotgun.

 

Why would it have to remain on the premise? If only the one employee is going to be allowed to shoot it then why is it not just kept in that employees possession?

 

I remember being in a conversation on THR about this a long time ago. The end decision was that a company cannot own a firearm I believe. Here's the thread http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-447374.html

 

If we weren't in NJ my same offer to the guy in that thread of buying it and loaning it to you would stand, but not an option here as New Jersey is a terrible terrible place.

Not sure why it has to remain on location.

 

 

I'd pay to shoot Canadian Geese. They make the parks a mine field with their nasty droppings.

You can shoot all the Canadian geese you want, they are not protected under the migratory bird treaty act of 1918. Same with Cowbirds, House Sparrows, European starlings, and Mute swans.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Okay, I'm in. Where do I sign up?

[KpdPipes 388]

I can't speak for NJ, but in the free parts of this country companies and trusts buy full autos for investment purposes. This is one way some people get around the ATF fingerprinting requirement when applying for class 3 or DD tax stamps, they start a company and have the company own them.

 

 

Actually there is also a company here in NJ that has managed to get an NFA authorization (Supressors) that contracts to State F&G to cull deer herds at night.

 

As far as Free America, you can go 3 ways when it comes to NFA, Corporate, Trust, or Individual.

[SpecialK 193]

many security companies own the firearms their employees carry on duty.

 

so that automatically makes it legal? Just saying I can't find anything that exempts private security companies and allows them to purchase firearms. I'm not saying it is or isn't legal, just saying there is no written law that I can find that makes it legal.

[ChrisJM981 924]

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions

 

"Person" means any natural person, corporation, partnership, firm or association of any kind or

nature whatsoever; any public entity of any kind or nature; the plural, as well as the singular and any

gender.

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-3.6 Exceptions for corporations

(a) A public corporation whose stock is listed on a major stock exchange at the time of filing of

an application for a retail dealer license shall not be required to furnish the personal data as set

forth in the application form for officers or directors of such corporation or for the stockholders

of such corporation unless such officers, directors or stockholders directly engage in the sale or

purchase of firearms for the corporation or such officers, directors or stockholders hold or

possess the actual or equitable controlling interest in such corporation.

(b) A certification shall be filed by the member or members holding an actual or equitable

controlling interest in each corporation or partnership certifying that such member(s) shall take

the appropriate action to inform all employees directly engaged in the sale, purchase or

manufacture of firearms or ammunition of the pertinent laws and regulations governing the sale,

purchase and manufacture of such firearms or ammunition.

[hmmjak 2]

now i'm not sure cause i've never been to a range that has this but aren't there ranges that have guns in their inventory which they can rent out to people? does the range own the firearm? and then wouldn't that fall under the same category? instead of shooting birds people are shooting paper?

 

just came into my head while reading this.

[Soju 153]

now i'm not sure cause i've never been to a range that has this but aren't there ranges that have guns in their inventory which they can rent out to people? does the range own the firearm? and then wouldn't that fall under the same category? instead of shooting birds people are shooting paper?

 

just came into my head while reading this.

 

That seems like a very fair comparison to me.

[BigHayden 77]

That seems like a very fair comparison to me.

 

Not necessarily. Those ranges are FFLs and NJ licensed dealers. They have their own set of rules.

[Dan 177]

Pretty sure a company cannot own a gun (except for dealers/ffl, etc). You can't give a FID to a company, and you can't run a NICS check on a company. Ultimately the gun has to be purchased and owned by a person.

 

My cousin worked for an armed guard company here in NJ. He had get his FID/PP, buy his own gun, then use the company letter to obtain a provisional NJ carry permit. He kept the gun at home, and brought it to work with him under typical travel exemptions, and carried it only while on the clock.

 

The easiest way would be for the worker to get a FID and purchase the shotgun them self, then they can submit an expense form to get reimbursed by the company. I can't see how that is a straw purchase as the purchaser did all the paperwork, and ultimately owns the gun. If my wife gave me $500 and I went a bought a gun with that money it is fine. It is a straw purchase if he then gave the gun to someone else, or his intentions were to purchase it for someone else.

 

If they want to keep it at work, the exemptions allow for this. I would have it locked up with only the owner knowing the code to be on the safe side.

 

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

I do know the laws governing the behavior of corporations are very, very, very different than the laws "governing" the behavior of ordinary citizens. Past that, I'm not a lawyer. How big is your company - 5 employees or 5,000 employees? Do you have a legal department, or did you just Google "NJ gun laws" like I did when I moved here?

 

This is interesting and I'd like to know like to know how it works out.

[LorenzoS 100]

I would direct the question to Anthony Colandro at Gun for Hire. They provide training for security officers and I believe might actually be a security company, so they should know the process or definitely point you to someone who does. www.gunforhire.com

[The_Matrix 105]

Get a hawk/eagle to rip their heads off. More entertaining than a shotgun blast and I bet you that they will never fly back again.

[Nilzlofgren 0]

Get a hawk/eagle to rip their heads off. More entertaining than a shotgun blast and I bet you that they will never fly back again.

Our site is full of Red Tail Hawks. There are also occasional Bald eagles, and Peregrine Falcons. No bird will to eat a seagull, especially when they have rabbits, squirrels, and better things to eat.

 

Since no one knows for sure, I think its best to tell my friend, to either not take the reimbursement, or just not get involved at all.

[mipafox 438]

I don't know about NJ, but in America it's pretty obvious that companies can own guns. And by "companies," I mean companies that have no permits or licenses for possession or dealing or owning or transporting or anything for the firearms.

[gunforhire 826]

In Nj a corporation cannot own guns. Unless you are an FFL.

[hmmjak 2]

Our site is full of Red Tail Hawks. There are also occasional Bald eagles, and Peregrine Falcons. No bird will to eat a seagull, especially when they have rabbits, squirrels, and better things to eat.Since no one knows for sure, I think its best to tell my friend, to either not take the reimbursement, or just not get involved at all.

 

I think he's talking about falconry. Hire a falconer and have his trained falcon/hawk/eagle hunt those seagulls down.

 

 

but i guess you have your answer now. your company would have to look into becoming an FFL if they want the firearm themselves. or maybe just hire that person for that position? if that's a possibility.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I don't know about NJ, but in America it's pretty obvious that companies can own guns. And by "companies," I mean companies that have no permits or licenses for possession or dealing or owning or transporting or anything for the firearms.

 

Any proof to back this up Ed? And why do you like to bash us residents every chance you get?

[vjf915 456]

just saying there is no written law that I can find that makes it legal.

Are there written laws stating that wearing purple sneakers is legal? No. Is wearing purple sneakers legal? Yes. My point is, laws aren't made to tell you what is LEGAL, laws are made to tell you what is ILLEGAL. If there is no law on the books that say you CANNOT do something, or there is no written penalty for that act, then you cannot be charged with a crime for that act.

[mipafox 438]

Any proof to back this up Ed? And why do you like to bash us residents every chance you get?

 

I'm confused by this in two ways. First, I wasn't bashing NJ residents. I pointed out that I don't know the details of the laws in NJ. And, yes, I like to compare NJ, MD, NY etc. to "America" because they are shitty police states. If I lived in NJ I certainly would not take that as an insult, and I CERTAINLY did not mean it that way towards you.

 

Second, you need proof that companies can own guns? I said "obviously," because I thought it was pretty obvious that companies own guns. All sorts of businesses routinely own guns. I'm curious why you are suspicious of that. Conincidentally, I happen to own a company that owns guns, but I will only show you proof in person for obvious reasons. Remind me in advance next time I see you and I will bring proof.