Secaucus FID & PP for non-citizen?

[TheWombat 67]

Congrats & Good Luck. Isn't SWMBO getting one too?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Yes, she received her green card as well today.

 

My week felt like :thsmiley_deadhorse: however ended as a

 

:-)

 

TheWombat

[djg0770 481]

Wholy cow...are there any ranges IN Secaucus?

 

Not anymore.

[aguilar64 9]

Congratulations....

[HINCHMAN 4]

Thank you (almost ) everyone for such a warm welcome - I am touched! I'll take the advice and pop down the local PD to see what they say about the FID.

 

My wife and I are busy for the next couple of weekends however we will definitely be in touch to take up the offers for going to the shooting ranges and trying some handguns/rifles.

 

Once again - thank you - you have made us feel very welcome to this country. We had reservations about relocating the family to the other side of the world however I can honestly say that the responses today have been one of the biggest (positive) surprises of the 20 months we have been in the US.

 

thank you

 

TheWombat aka Alex

 

 

Welcome to the USA. We are a warm people. Not idiots like the xenophobe would have you think.

[Leth 8]

Congratulations!

[Genewarper111 18]

Having a green card and being a legal resident alien are 2 different things and unless something has changed legal resident aliens are allowed the rights of the 2nd amendment.

 

 

Harry

 

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The "Green Card" is the colloquial name for the old "Permanent Resident Alien" card, which was actually green.

 

The modern card is a neutral beige colour, but nonetheless it denotes that the foreign bon person has been granted an "immigrant visa" and has leave to reside in the United States permanently; hence the term "Permanent Resident Alien".

 

PRAs are considered to be US citizens in waiting. They are unable to apply for US citizenship until they have held the card for 5 years. However they enjoy the rights and privileges of US citizens (for the finicky amongst us - yes, there has been debate about their rights under the 4th amendment).

 

Regarding the 2nd however, PRAs are covered. For those PRAs on the forum who are GOA members, note that GOA is against any non-citizen, including PRAs, from having carry permits.

 

best

G

[Genewarper111 18]

CONGRATS on the CARD, Alex!!!

 

G

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Harry

[Downr@nge 22]

TheWombat, CONGRATULATIONS fellow AMERICAN!!! Hope you enjoy life here and our beloved 2nd amendment! Like someone else said, we are not all xenophobes here! I welcome ANYONE here legally!

 

The P226 is an AWESOME gun! You can rent one at Shore Shot as others here have mentioned.

[TheWombat 67]

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The "Green Card" is the colloquial name for the old "Permanent Resident Alien" card, which was actually green.

 

The modern card is a neutral beige colour, but nonetheless it denotes that the foreign bon person has been granted an "immigrant visa" and has leave to reside in the United States permanently; hence the term "Permanent Resident Alien".

 

PRAs are considered to be US citizens in waiting. They are unable to apply for US citizenship until they have held the card for 5 years. However they enjoy the rights and privileges of US citizens (for the finicky amongst us - yes, there has been debate about their rights under the 4th amendment).

 

Regarding the 2nd however, PRAs are covered. For those PRAs on the forum who are GOA members, note that GOA is against any non-citizen, including PRAs, from having carry permits.

 

best

G

 

Just to add to this, the "Green Card" or "Permanent Resident Alien" card has switched back to being green again since May 2010 and also now includes an RFID chip. Our cards look like the picture on the top right of this Wikipedia page: Green Card (Wikipedia)

 

Anyway, the summary is we're here at the request of my organization who relocated me. Since we're here we have decided to treat the USA as if it were our home.

 

Thanks to all for their congrats, we'll be in touch soon and am looking forward to meeting you at the shooting ranges.

 

NRA Basic Pistol is today!

 

:-)

 

Alex

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Congrats on the green card! Enjoy the NRA First Steps course.

[djg0770 481]

Ahh sore this terday and I herd to repast it for y'all...

 

[TheWombat 67]

My wife and I went to the Police Station today and submitted our FID application and 3 PPs each. So far I can say a positive experience, the detective was helpful and professional.

 

Now we just wait....

 

My shortlist currently includes:

• Sig P226 9mm - shot one at the NRA Basic Pistol course and liked it... a lot.
  
• Springfield Armory XD 9mm or XDm 9mm - have shot the XD a couple of times and had tight groupings.
  
• H&K USP 9mm - never shot
  
• H&K P30/P30L - never shot
  
• M&P 9/Pro - never shot
  

 

I've also shot the Glock 17/19/21, however they are not on my short list (for now), although my wife liked the Glock 19. Then again until we've tried more semis the short list is just a list.... Also possibly a 1911 or a .22.. so many choices! I liked the GSG .22 1911 so maybe that's a good practice gun.

 

In the interim we'll pop to Shore Shot and also take up some of the offers from forum members to come along.

 

thanks to you all for making us feel welcome.

 

:-)

 

TheWombat

[mipafox 438]

I'm kind of surprised that more than one of you have experience with people on H-1Bs or school visas (no green card) that got NJ FIDs.

 

Under federal law, people who are not permanent residents (green card or citizen) cannot posses firearms. If you get a hunting license the State Department will supposedly supply some form of waiver, although I've never seen one. But they say it goes something like that.

 

The people who have done it probably know better.

[mipafox 438]

First off

 

I think you all took this the wrong way....

 

I simply believe that some things should happen in a certain order, especially owning a firearm. Not that this pertains to the original poster, but there are plent of people who are in our county legally and illegally that are not here for the right reasons. I am sure many are here for the right reasons but it only takes one bad apple.

 

I believe that once a person goes through the process of becoming a citizen then they should be granted this right...PERIOD

 

The OP even said that he was PRE-GREEN CARD so if you are all ok with even a pre-green card person taking up arms than so be it. I do not.

 

As for Aguilar64 all I can do is praise you for serving our country, but before you were able to enlist, you did have a green card and had residency in the US.

 

 

I believe the order should be that you give someone cash and you get the firearm. Fortunately, that is the way it works. But non-residents are generally prohibitted under law.

[Malsua 1,422]

My wife and I went to the Police Station today and submitted our FID application and 3 PPs each. So far I can say a positive experience, the detective was helpful and professional.

 

Now we just wait....

 

My shortlist currently includes:

• Sig P226 9mm - shot one at the NRA Basic Pistol course and liked it... a lot.
  
• Springfield Armory XD 9mm or XDm 9mm - have shot the XD a couple of times and had tight groupings.
  
• H&K USP 9mm - never shot
  
• H&K P30/P30L - never shot
  
• M&P 9/Pro - never shot
  

 

I've also shot the Glock 17/19/21, however they are not on my short list (for now), although my wife liked the Glock 19. Then again until we've tried more semis the short list is just a list.... Also possibly a 1911 or a .22.. so many choices! I liked the GSG .22 1911 so maybe that's a good practice gun.

 

In the interim we'll pop to Shore Shot and also take up some of the offers from forum members to come along.

 

thanks to you all for making us feel welcome.

 

:-)

 

TheWombat

 

You're welcome to shoot my H&K P30. I think I'm going to sneak down to Cherry Ridge on Sunday.

[TheWombat 67]

Quick update. My wife and I applied for the FID/PPs 18th August 2011. The detective was professional and helpful. We're using out of state references who have already received the reference letters. Due to overseas work trip our finger prints are not until 9th Sept.

 

So far a positive experience

 

TheWombat

[TheWombat 67]

Just to bring this thread to a close. We've just been told by Secaucus PD that our FID and permits are approved and ready for collection on Tuesday. The entire process has taken 5 weeks, and this includes me having to delay the finger prints by a week and a half due to being overseas. In the end it was the mental health response from wherever the PD have to wait for a response from that was the last item to be completed.

 

The process was painless, there were no issues with us only having been in the country for 20 months and only just having received our Green Cards. The detective at Secaucus PD was professional, courteous and helpful.

 

We'll be seeing you at Shore Shot, Bullet Hole and Bayonne during October :-)

 

 

TheWombat

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Dang that was fast. Congrats!

[TheWombat 67]

Bump for RayRay

 

TheWombat

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Now that you've gone through more ringers than becoming a citizen of this great country, what are your feelings about owning firearms and shooting them. Are you still apprehensive about keeping a firearm loaded or are you a full-blown gun lover. Just curious as your story is similar to my wifes. Thanks for the bump Alex.

[TheWombat 67]

Now that you've gone through more ringers than becoming a citizen of this great country, what are your feelings about owning firearms and shooting them. Are you still apprehensive about keeping a firearm loaded or are you a full-blown gun lover. Just curious as your story is similar to my wifes. Thanks for the bump Alex.

 

This is not a simple question to answer! I would ask that everyone reading this accept that differing points of view are acceptable and that having only been in the US for 2 years, I lack the full comprehension of the culture and history.

 

In the last 3 months MrsWombat and I have received our FIDs, Florida CCW, Utah CCW and have each purchased 3 firearms. So from that perspective I would say we are enjoying firearms as a 'hobby'. I have shot 1482 rounds through my own firearms, have rented firearms at ShoreShot where I shot anouther ~150-200 rounds, have been to Sunset Hill 3 times so in total I'm probably break the 2000 to 2500 rounds by the end of this month (which would be over a duration of about 4 months).

 

I still see my firearms as primarily something to take to the range or shoot in competitions, albeit I am currently wearing a CompTac Minotaur IWB hybrid holster, and wore it to ShoreShot, HomeDepot and Stop & Shop and I have also bought a number of other holsters to try:

 

• 
   
  
• 1911 Commander - MiltSparks VM2, MiltSparks Summer Special, CompTac Minotaur IWB
  
• P226 - CompTac Paddle holster
  
• PPQ - DeSantis Speed Scabbard (I do not like it) so I am having a custom IWB leather holster and a custom Kydex OWB holster made for the PPQ.
   
  

 

I am also undertaking DOT drills, holster draws, reload training etc, at home, at the range and through more formal training with Gun For Hire, Shoot NJ, and GAPP. This training and practice gives me a basic understanding of how to shoot better, and hopefully improves my muscle memory, however it doesn't guarantee that when confronted with an encounter that I will do 'the right thing'. I am however working to improve my chances. I do expect that when we head over to PA over the Christmas Period that I will take the 1911 Commander with me as a carry firearm. So I am beginning to see this 'hobby' as more than just something for at a range.

 

Do I believe 'an armed society is a safe society'? My response would be that 'an armed society, trained in the appropriate use of force and restraint is a safer society'. In theory I believe there should be no need for civilians to walk around armed, and in previous threads we've touched on some of the cultural and historical differences between the US and Europe. I never felt afraid not owning a firearm in Europe or Australia and I believe that view is shared by the majority of the residents there. Do I feel afraid in the US walking around without a firearm on my hip. Currently I don't, however I probably frequent the safer areas (albeit that is not a justification since crime can happen anywhere)

 

I can't comment too much on the 2nd amendment, if it is a legal right then it is a legal right and I will always try to live by the laws of the country I live in. I do however, as discussed on other threads, believe that with a right comes 'responsibility and restraint', and hence I am in favor of formal training as a requirement to own and/or carry firearms. The challenge is how to implement it in a consistent manner that actually achieves the purpose. I think that the Federal Government is viewed with suspicion, and there is undoubtedly validity to this feeling.

 

Do I feel uneasy with the public carrying firearms around me in shopping malls etc. Yes, because I don't know if they are actually safe and competent to use them or whether they will do more harm in a situation. Even on this forum some of the threads on concealed carry and how to react to a situation with a criminal walking/running away concern me, as some have stated they would shoot still. However given the choice I think concealed carry is far more preferable to open carry, which I struggle with, as it increases the chance that someone could take the firearm and can act as a destabilizing influence for those in the vicinity.

 

Having come from the UK (with a brief 3 year stay in Australia) I still perceive a country as a nation with a stronger Federal/National type government/laws, hence the significant differences in State Laws with respect to firearms is mind-blowing, albeit the ability for a State to decide their own fate is inherent in the original founding of the US. For example, I currently don't have an issue with handgun magazines for civilian use being limited to 15 rounds IF it was a Federal law. I can understand a view that civilians don't actually need 30+ round magazines, however with California at 10 rounds, NJ at 15 rounds and most other places unlimited it just makes no sense. The question then is where do you draw the line and our the laws being put in place for the right reasons...

 

I am very pleased and proud that MrsWombat is enjoying the hobby as well. She selected her 3 firearms and has been enjoying the training and range visits. I hope that where permitted, she will carry if we decide that we are carrying, assuming that we both feel we are suitably training, responsible and able to apply appropriate restraint as required.

 

In closing, I DO keep a loaded firearm (PPQ) in the house with Hollow Points. I am constrantly training myself to ensure my finger remains of the trigger until appropriate. Do I expect I'll ever need to use my home defense or carry firearm? No I do not however it would be foolish of me to have firearms and then find myself in a situation where they are all locked in a safe and unloaded and I am a recipient of a home invasion etc.

 

Hope my rambling response answers the question!

 

TheWombat

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Good read. Interesting point of view. Thanks for the response.

[TheWombat 67]

Good read. Interesting point of view. Thanks for the response.

 

The short version would be 'I am not apprehensive about keeping a firearm loaded on me or near me, I am a full-blown gun lover albeit I have a different perspective on some of the rights/laws/responsibilities etc'. I guess buying the Ed Brown sealed the deal :-)

 

MrsWombat I believe is more apprehensive, although no doubt she will correct me if I am wrong

 

:-)

 

TheWombat

[Ray Ray 3,566]

The "training" issue is the one thing that seems to bother me about gun ownership. Even on this board there are many who believe a class or certification makes you safer or smarter in regards to handling and operating a gun. IT DOESN'T. The only training or class or certification you need is to go to the range with like-minded people and shoot. Thanks my man, hope to see you at the range as we are neighbors in this great county of ours.

[TheWombat 67]

The "training" issue is the one thing that seems to bother me about gun ownership. Even on this board there are many who believe a class or certification makes you safer or smarter in regards to handling and operating a gun. IT DOESN'T. The only training or class or certification you need is to go to the range with like-minded people and shoot. Thanks my man, hope to see you at the range as we are neighbors in this great county of ours.

 

And I'm one of those (sort of). I believe that training is an important part of becoming safe with gun ownership. Training should teach you some of the theory that the range visits put into practice. I can honestly say that for me I learnt some valuable information on the NRA Basic Pistol and even more in the GunForHire 2nd Steps Pistol that has helped make me safer and more competent. I am now backing up that theory with range visits.

 

I can see some different perspectives:

1. people who believe that training should not be mandatory as gun ownership is a right (I don't share the view that a right means no training (for this particular right)),
   
2. training should not be mandatory as it doesn't make you safer (I strongly disagree with this view),
   
3. training should be part of a overall approach to make you safer (I agree with this)
   
4. training should be mandatory assuming it can be managed effectively and achieve the result required (I agree with this)
   

For those who are in belief 1) then I politely agree to differ. For those in belief 2) then I'm more likely to object as we can take the analogy as to why doesn't the USA therefore just allow untrained people to get into a car and drive (as the driver), or into an aeroplane and fly (as the pilot) etc.

 

At ShoreShot yesterday I saw (I assume father and son) shooting with the father showing the son how to shoot. The son, who would have been in mid teens was leaning backwards while aiming/shooting which may work but I don't believe is recommended. I've learnt from other sports that it is often more successful to have someone else teach a family member the basics of a sport than to teach them yourself as they will hopefully pay more attention and be more receptive to the feedback. I know from other posts that most people who go to ranges will see things that are 'not safe' at some point.

 

I do agree though that just going on a course, whether CCW or NRA Basic Pistol, is not going to make you a competent shooting, it should however ensure (if you paid attention) that you are safer handling firearms which is important.

 

I'm currently going to RTSP and ShoreShot although I think we'll take a look at OBPRC and Cherry Ridge sometime soon as I want to start competition shooting in the new year. I did try Bayonne and found I didn't like the environment (i.e. air, cleanliness, ventilation etc) so while it is close by, I'm not sure I'll be making it a regular place to go.

 

Enjoy and I do hope we catch up!

 

TheWombat

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I do have a slightly different take on the whole safety issue. Going to 1 class and thinking you know everything can be bad as well. The only really good way to practice safety is to do it... a lot

[TheWombat 67]

I do have a slightly different take on the whole safety issue. Going to 1 class and thinking you know everything can be bad as well. The only really good way to practice safety is to do it... a lot

 

Agreed, however I never claimed that going to 1 class would/should result in someone thinking they know everything. I do believe it should make you 'safer' (that is not the same as 'safe' not is it meaning that you know everything)

 

Hence my viewpoint that formal training mixed with plenty of practice is the way to go.

 

TheWombat

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I understand what your trying to say, and it's all in the name of safety. But I've seen plenty of people that have gone through alot safety courses and do stupid things all the time. There really isn't much to it. Learn Col. Jeff Cooper's 4 rules of firearm safety, shoot as much as you can, and have fun.

Now, you can recommend a class or maybe a 1st steps pistol class but to make it a requirement won't help.

One last thing. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and it can be revoked and severely restricted. The second amendment is a right that can't be taken away (but living in this state is severely restricted)

[Twospot 38]

I don't remember if it was yesterday or the day before but I was reading a thread on here debating the training issue. Before I get into that I just wanted to congratulate Alex on all of his big wins. Welcome home and enjoy the show!! You have replied to numerous posts of mine and its very cool to have read your story and how you got to this point.

 

Now back to the thread... I agree with Ray Ray that mandatory training is probably worthless. I am new to all of this. I am very passionate about it and WANT TO take some training. If you don't have that thirst none of that will stick any way. People we'll go, get through the class just to get the ID and go shoot like an idiot and make us less safe at the range. It is an absolute shame its like that but its no different than school, if you hate the class you'll do the bare minimum then move on and not think twice about it.

 

I love reading these threads and I appreciate everyone's input as I'm just absorbing like a sponge!!