Guns for Competitive Shooting?

[RedBowTies88 41]

So I would like to get into some form of competitive shooting (preferably steel). Are any of the guns I currently own acceptiable? I don't want to actually be competitive I just want to have fun. So anyway my list of firearms is as follows.

 

 

Marlin 795 .22 - two ten tound mags.

Marlin xt-22 .22 bolt action - High cap fixed mag

Saiga .223 - two ten round mags

Mosin Nagant

Polish p-64 9x18mm - two six round mags.

S&W model 36 .38spl

 

 

Any of that permissible? And what orginizations could I compete with?

[Jon 264]

Marlin 795 - Pick up a few extra mags and you can shoot static steel. In fact my 795 used to be my dedicated steel gun, and I was quite competitive with it.

 

S&W Model 36 - Get some speed loaders and you can shoot IDPA, USPSA, or steel.

[RedBowTies88 41]

The marlin is a good little gun, what does static steel entail? I would like somethiing where I would be moving around not just shooting from a bench or stand. I'm open to anything though just to get started.

 

Why can i use the model 36 and not the p-64 in the other orginizations? I'm not very good with it but im decently good with the p-64.

[Jon 264]

The marlin is a good little gun, what does static steel entail? I would like somethiing where I would be moving around not just shooting from a bench or stand. I'm open to anything though just to get started.

 

Why can i use the model 36 and not the p-64 in the other orginizations? I'm not very good with it but im decently good with the p-64.

 

This video should give you a good idea for static steel:

 

 

As for the Makarov, unfortunately 9x18 does not meet minimum caliber requirements for most disciplines(which is a shame IMO, as 9x18 is a great round). I could see you possibly participating in an IDPA "mouse gun" match, but those aren't typically true sanctioned matches, and I have yet to see one in this area anyway.

[RedBowTies88 41]

Static steel looks like it would be fun, are there classes for semi and manual action guns or is everything lumped together? Also are there centerfire classes I could possibly use the saiga or the mosin in?

 

That is a shame about 9x18 as im starting to really like the round as well. Was even considering a cz-82 for this type of thing becuase of the higher cap mags.

 

do they allow 7.62x25? thinking of making a tokarev my next handgun.... maybe even find a 9x19 barrel for it. If they would allow it...

[Jon 264]

Static steel looks like it would be fun, are there classes for semi and manual action guns or is everything lumped together? Also are there centerfire classes I could possibly use the saiga or the mosin in?

 

That is a shame about 9x18 as im starting to really like the round as well. Was even considering a cz-82 for this type of thing becuase of the higher cap mags.

 

do they allow 7.62x25? thinking of making that my next handgun.... maybe even find a 9x19 barrel for it. If they would allow it...

 

Static steel breaks the classes down to rimfire, pistol, and revolver, then further broken down into optics and irons. There are no centerfire rifle divisions for static steel. Shongum has a side rifle stage every now and then where you can shoot any centerfire rifle. Here's me shooting my SKS:

 

 

7.62x25 also does not meet minimum caliber requirements.

[RedBowTies88 41]

what do they consider "minimum"? Sounds a lot more like "common" lol

 

7.62 has reasonably more energy then 9mm para. and 9mm mak is technically larger as well

 

Looks like im going to have to start honing my snub nose skill. Or buy a different type of handgun then im really interested in

[Jon 264]

9x19 is considered the minimum cartridge.

[RedBowTies88 41]

9x19 is considered the minimum cartridge.

 

In terms of energy or bullet diamater? as the tok round carries more energy and the mak round is slightly larger lol.

 

Not trying to argue with you of course im just curious about how/why they have the rules set up as they do..

[Jon 264]

In terms of energy or bullet diamater? as the tok round carries more energy and the mak round is slightly larger lol.

 

Not trying to argue with you of course im just curious about how/why they have the rules set up as they do..

 

Not sure. Will wait on someone more knowledgable on the rules.

[RedBowTies88 41]

ok thanks.

 

I saw a video on youtube a little while back of a guy using a lever action in some kind of tatical rifle comoetition. Though that was pretty cool. I could just imagine trying to run around with a 91/30 and hit targets on the move. red army style lol

[alec.mc 180]

The issue with larger rifle calibers during steel events is you are typically shooting sub 20 yards, and at club steel plates. With those 2 things combined you'll be getting all sorts of splatter back at you and possible damaging the clubs plates. Just too much of a round to shoot comp steel.

 

I think above meant use common rounds, with a max.

 

Most people use the basics, 22,9,38spl,38super,44spl, 45 , etc

 

Most also have a no magnum round rule as well.

 

....at least these are the rules at the few clubs I've done steel matches at

[Vlad G 345]

Shooting a real rifle cartridge at a any steel target at less the 100 yards is bad for your health, not to mention it will likely destroy the targets,

 

9mm mak is most definetly NOT in the same class as a 9mm. It is a smaller case with about 10000psi less pressure and a lighter bullet. It fires a 93gr bullet at a maximum of 1350ft per second where 9mm often fires a 115gr bullet at that speed,

 

The 7.62x25 is also not the cartridge people think it to be. For one, the ammunition you can buy is not the ammunition it was designed for. The point of the cartridge was to be reasonably armor piericing my moving a steel core 85gr bullet at around 1650ft/sec, As you can't buy steel core pistol ammunition in the US, you are firing a FMJ 85gr bullet of about 30cal which is not exactly a wining combination as a defensive round.

 

And then there is a issue of "energy" which for these purposes it is meaningless. In fact by raw energy numbers the ball 7.62x25 is a 20% better then 230gr HP .45 ammo and I beg to differ and so does pretty much everyone who cares about these things. Most shooting sports use the idea of "powerfactor" which is mass times speed instead of mass times speed squared.

 

Back to the original questions however. There are a lot of shooting sports and they all have different standards. Most of the pistol "action" shooting sports like IDPA/USPSA/etc tend to mark the 9mm Luger and the 38spl as the bottom of the power curve and require a minimum powerfactor to avoid really light reloads. Steel also has .22 specific divisions.

 

From your list the 795 with a few extra mags will work for the steel .22 rifle division, and the S&W for pretty much anything. I suppose you could shoot your Saiga in action rifle matches, though we don't have that many in NJ because of our laws, lots to chose from in PA if you don't mind driving. You can feel free to shoot action rifle matches with a lever gun, but don't expect to "win", it really doesn't matter how good you are with one, 130 years have passed since that design was cooked up, we've done better since.

 

You mention purchasing a handgun you are not interested, out of curiosity what kind of handguns are you interested in?

[RedBowTies88 41]

I like curio's and relics. More european then anything. (soft spot for tok's and maks) but I think most old autoloaders are cool. I don't really care at all about winning at this point. I just want to have fun. If I can shoot action rifle with a mosin then call me crazy but I think it would be fun to try. Almost kinda like a ww2 throwback.

 

I see what you're sayign with the "power factor" so I can see why they wouldn't allow 9x18 (although probably 90% of the mak guns with the fixed barrel blowback design recoil as bad or worse then similar sized 9x19) but it still doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't allow 7.62 based on that alone. I also don't see how theoretical man stopping power has anything to do with a target match

 

It is their rules though, so I suppose if i wanna play I need to learn to live by them.

 

Maybe a 1911 is in my future. Its an interesting design I just dont care at all for .45acp. Any other caliber just doesn't seem "right though..

[Jon 264]

Sounds like you need a Browning HiPower my friend. Come north and you can shoot mine

[RedBowTies88 41]

I've shot one, I didn't dislike like I've disliked every glock I've ever touched lol but It didn't seem that great or cool to me. At least not enough to justify the pricetag.

[Jon 264]

Blah. BHP's are AWESOME.

[RedBowTies88 41]

whatever you say

 

I'm sure I'll find thing somethat I can use eventually

[Maksim 1,504]

can you use a makarov in the IDPA BUG division?

[Jon 264]

can you use a makarov in the IDPA BUG division?

 

Yes, I'm pretty sure you can. Problem is finding a BUG match. I have yet to see one close by.

[Brian B 2]

 

it still doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't allow 7.62 based on that alone.

 

The minimum bullet diameter allowed is .355

It doesn't matter if it is a more powerful round or not.

[RedBowTies88 41]

The minimum bullet diameter allowed is .355

It doesn't matter if it is a more powerful round or not.

 

So 9mm mak at .364 should be good then correct? Same with .380 as thats .355 as well?

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

...Maybe a 1911 is in my future. Its an interesting design I just dont care at all for .45acp. Any other caliber just doesn't seem "right though..

If you find factory .45's "too much" you should consider some lighter loads.

I load 200gr RNFP in 2 different powers:

4.5 gr Titegroup for easy shooting

and

5.4 gr Titegroup for hot hitting (esp out of my carbines, but it's a hot pistol cartridge!)

 

You're welcome to come up and shoot both of them!

PM me to make arrangements

[2Alpha 6]

So 9mm mak at .364 should be good then correct? Same with .380 as thats .355 as well?

 

Neither round will make the minimum power factor of 125 for USPSA or IDPA, steel it wouldn't be an issue

weight in grains x fps / 1000

[RedBowTies88 41]

Ok that makes perfect sense. So they base minimum off power AND diamater.

 

It's not that I think .45 is too much, my p-64 actually has much greater precieved recoil then a 1911. I just don't realy like the idea of big, heavy, slow rounds. I like light and fast

[RedBowTies88 41]

You guys see any problems with using a p38 or p1?

[RedBowTies88 41]

I think what im going to do is unless I come across a screaming deal on a cz82 or mak if go for a TTC of some sort and do the 9mm conversion.

[Vlad G 345]

I also don't see how theoretical man stopping power has anything to do with a target match

 

They are not target matches, they are practical shooting matches. They may be games, but they are games based on the practical use of firearms suitable for self defense. Yes, you have to draw some rules at various spots that may or may not make sense, but the basics come from requiring a cartridge sufficient for self defense. There is an argument to be made that the 7.62x25 might be awesome at self defense but someone will ask for their favorite 7.8 caliber to be admitted, the .32ACP. Thus the bottom floor is set at 9mm Parabelum and .38 Special.

 

Given your taste in guns I don't see and issue with a P-38, or a Hi Power or even a Luger, right era, right cartridge and a reason to buy one more gun. The P1's (post war P-38s) are like $320.

[gunnyr 17]

I've shot one, I didn't dislike like I've disliked every glock I've ever touched lol but It didn't seem that great or cool to me. At least not enough to justify the pricetag.

 

Take a good hard look at the Arcus98. If you get the compact version it will take the 13rd BHP mag. If you get the full size version, you will need the 17rd BHP mag but with the follower that limits it to 15. This is actually what they sell as the 15rd mag through CAI. Also, it comes standard without a mag safety, unlike the Browning.

 

I have the full size version and it will fit in a Fobus holster designed for a Beretta M9. I freaking love this gun, even with the crappy finish.

[RedBowTies88 41]

I just picked up a 22/45 today, maybe with some moags i can use that for something..