Retired LEOs Targeted

[GRIZ 3,369]

As a Veteran I oppose any legislation that would give me the right to CCW and not the average citizen. Creating a pocket of people that have a right over others is WRONG and will only lead to a "us vs. them" situation eventually. The cops on here feeling that there are guys on here that want to strip the cops of their carry right so they would be equal must be drug units, because you must be high! The general consensus between all the non-LEO's here is that EVERYONE should be able to CCW. No one here is saying it would be ok for non-LEO's to carry, but not LEO's; funny how that works. If you want to support legislation that makes you have more rights than the people whose rights you are supposed to uphold and defend then you need to take a good look in the mirror because you are becoming the lackys for the government, not the protectors of the people. I am American, being a veteran of war does not entitle me to any extra rights than any other citizen of this great nation. As men who have taken the oath to up hold and defend the Constitution we need to stand with the people!

 

Special K, the fact is society has always given certain rights or privileges to specific classes of people for various reasons. There are certain rights or privileges that you have that every citizen doesn't.

 

You are entitled to veteran's preference with civil service jobs. The federal government and all the states have this in one form or another. NJ even lets your spouse use it if you don't. Do you feel that any veteran who used this to take a job away from someone more qualified is a scab of some sorts?

 

I don't have any hidden agenda behind this comment. I'm merely pointing out to you that giving certain groups privilege is nothing new.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

 

but I’m sure that if I look close enough at any occupation, I will find a few ballbags.

 

Funny and so true!

 

The rest of the post was good too.

[johnott 5]

Wow, this thread is still going.

 

I'm relatively new here and I don't have the insight or experience that many of you seem to have when it comes to ammo, guns, knives etc. It surprised me how this topic morphed into something so divisive (speaking of the LEO/civilian issue). I know we all come from different backgrounds and age groups, but we have a lot in common as well... our apparent love and interest in firearms. Let's not forget that people like us are a minority in this state and we need all the friends we can get.

 

As far as the original topic; anything that diminishes or restricts 2A rights is of interest to me. Thanks for the info.

 

(I'm in my fifties. A military veteran (not career). Been around the block a few times. Just thought I'd mention this to give some perspective to my opinions. Also, my avatar is Gen. Philip Sheridan)

[SpecialK 193]

Special K, the fact is society has always given certain rights or privileges to specific classes of people for various reasons. There are certain rights or privileges that you have that every citizen doesn't.

 

You are entitled to veteran's preference with civil service jobs. The federal government and all the states have this in one form or another. NJ even lets your spouse use it if you don't. Do you feel that any veteran who used this to take a job away from someone more qualified is a scab of some sorts?

 

I don't have any hidden agenda behind this comment. I'm merely pointing out to you that giving certain groups privilege is nothing new.

 

Do you even know the difference between a Right and a privilege? PLEASE PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE tell me how veterans preference given is a right or how it is unconstitutional! Do it now or SHUT UP.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Do you even know the difference between a Right and a privilege? PLEASE PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE tell me how veterans preference given is a right or how it is unconstitutional! Do it now or SHUT UP.

 

I do know the difference between a right and a privilege and never said veteran's preference is unconstitutional being that the rest of my response would be off topic I will PM you.

[SpecialK 193]

I do know the difference between a right and a privilege and never said veteran's preference is unconstitutional being that the rest of my response would be off topic I will PM you.

 

I apologize. I re-read your post and realize that you were only talking about privileges and how they are nothing new. Your post did not compare privileges to Rights. If you could clarify what your post has to do with this thread I would appreciate it though.

[SpecialK 193]

Do you feel that any veteran who used this to take a job away from someone more qualified is a scab of some sorts?

 

I didn't even get to answer your question when I went into a rant, when I mistakenly thought you had the audacity to compare our 2nd Amendment right to a privilege.

 

Veterans preference does not guarantee a job to anyone over a more qualified candidate. It is up to the highering agent of what ever department at the time to make the call if the Veteran is better or equally suited for the job, those are the rule laid out by the federal government. As former workers of the Federal government I see no problem for veterans getting jobs from them as they are returning workers. As for the rules laid out by the state, that is for each individual state to decide. Far or unfair the people of each state get to decide who hey want to give their government jobs to and how.

 

This still has nothing to do with the Right to carry, but since you are pointing out random history facts I might as well too.

 

Those given special privileges always end up getting their heads cut off by those that do not in the past.

[Stuntman22 16]

Kevin Says: Veterans preference does not guarantee a job to anyone over a more qualified candidate.

 

Wrong.

 

Civil Service Rules: Veterans preference. A veteran returning from ACTIVE Duty Conflict just has to get a passing grade to go to the top of the list.

 

I agree with the rule, but it is a "Special Privilege" and I hope they don’t get their heads cut off as you say.

 

Also can't be skipped on a promotional exam. On my list, there were some Beirut guys. One got a passing score of 70% and went to the top of the list. I scored a 96 and the Vet was hired ahead of me (Same Academy Class) lower badge number also higher seniority and could pick vacation before me.

 

Sour grapes? Not at all. I was honored to work with him and if he is gonna risk his Azz for me in the sandbox, it’s the least the State could do for the returning guys or girls.

[MrSurfboard 1]

Kevin Says: Veterans preference does not guarantee a job to anyone over a more qualified candidate.

 

Wrong.

 

Civil Service Rules: Veterans preference. A veteran returning from ACTIVE Duty Conflict just has to get a passing grade to go to the top of the list.

 

I agree with the rule, but it is a "Special Privilege" and I hope they don’t get their heads cut off as you say.

 

Also can't be skipped on a promotional exam. On my list, there were some Beirut guys. One got a passing score of 70% and went to the top of the list. I scored a 96 and the Vet was hired ahead of me (Same Academy Class) lower badge number also higher seniority and could pick vacation before me.

 

Sour grapes? Not at all. I was honored to work with him and if he is gonna risk his Azz for me in the sandbox, it’s the least the State could do for the returning guys or girls.

Sorry but i don't agree with current NJ civil service rules. If I study hard and score a 99 and a vet passes with a 70 he goes to the top of the list, ridiculous. While he should get additional points for his service, an automatic top of the list is absurd. Police work is a thinking mans job now a days and to be blunt, many who go into military service do so because they aren't smart enough to get any other job. Those who are intelligent will get a good a score and get the job, those who aren't, shouldn't be cops no matter what they did prior.

Waiting for all the flag waivers to attack me for this, but it's my opinion.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I know a lot of people who scored well on the test who should not be cops. Book smarts aren't everything. Handling stress, situational awareness and street smarts are just a few things that make a good cop. You can't score that. The military can prepare you for that. Don't think I am biased,I am not prior military. a lot of veterans got hired before me and I am ok with that

[SpecialK 193]

Sorry but i don't agree with current NJ civil service rules. If I study hard and score a 99 and a vet passes with a 70 he goes to the top of the list, ridiculous. While he should get additional points for his service, an automatic top of the list is absurd. Police work is a thinking mans job now a days and to be blunt, many who go into military service do so because they aren't smart enough to get any other job. Those who are intelligent will get a good a score and get the job, those who aren't, shouldn't be cops no matter what they did prior.

Waiting for all the flag waivers to attack me for this, but it's my opinion.

 

wrong as a vet you 10 more points on a test in NJ.

[SpecialK 193]

Kevin Says: Veterans preference does not guarantee a job to anyone over a more qualified candidate.

 

Wrong.

 

Civil Service Rules: Veterans preference. A veteran returning from ACTIVE Duty Conflict just has to get a passing grade to go to the top of the list.

 

I agree with the rule, but it is a "Special Privilege" and I hope they don’t get their heads cut off as you say.

 

Also can't be skipped on a promotional exam. On my list, there were some Beirut guys. One got a passing score of 70% and went to the top of the list. I scored a 96 and the Vet was hired ahead of me (Same Academy Class) lower badge number also higher seniority and could pick vacation before me.

 

Sour grapes? Not at all. I was honored to work with him and if he is gonna risk his Azz for me in the sandbox, it’s the least the State could do for the returning guys or girls.

 

Are you talking about state or federal preferences, because in federal preferences it dose not and I sated federal is different than state. Federal rules "

Veterans’ Preference gives eligible veterans preference in appointment over many other applicants. Veterans’ Preference applies to virtually all new appointments in the Competitive Service and many in the Excepted Service. Veterans’ Preference does not guarantee veterans a job and it does not apply to internal agency actions such as promotions, transfers, reassignments, and reinstatements.

Not all veterans receive preference for federal civilian employment, and not all active duty service qualifies for Veterans’ Preference. Only veterans discharged or released from active duty in the Armed Forces under honorable conditions are eligible for Veterans’ Preference."

 

State rules n NJ is it adds 10 points to your test now, that is all. That is the states decision to give privileges to veterans over others in their highering process.

 

The state has no wiggle room to deny or give rights only to certain group of people anymore than the federal government does. Those that choose to deny our rights are our enemies and deserve treatment accordingly.

[mipafox 438]

Honestly .. good. Equal protection and all that. We are either all citizens or we are not. Maybe this will make some of the various LEO groups rethink their position on concealed carry permits.

 

I got my shit jumped for saying that about a year ago. I'm glad to see the change in culture. Without it, we would get nowhere.

[bulpup 98]

Police work is a thinking mans job now a days and to be blunt, many who go into military service do so because they aren't smart enough to get any other job.

 

Hey dumb a**, some of us took a pay cut to do the "fighting for your freedom" thing.

 

Lick my balls.

[Old School 611]

Police work is a thinking mans job now a days and to be blunt, many who go into military service do so because they aren't smart enough to get any other job.

 

To MrSurfboard

 

You can lick my balls too a$$ hole.

[PeteF 1,044]

Well this thread has really gone from bad to worse.

 

Someone please lock/delete/remove from all recorded history this thread.

[Jon 264]