"Arsenal" of Weapons - Police stop in FL

[Dan 177]

IMO way more to this then we know. As for the seizure of weapons by the ATF... there are so many federal gun laws on the books that I'm sure they found some legal reason that enables them to do so. That's how the govt likes their laws... huge, complex, and ambiguous; so at anytime they can justify their actions as "legal". Just like the example above about any LEO can find a legal reason to stop any driver for a MV violation if they follow them long enough.

[Duppie 73]

This is all supposition and in no way indicates what actually happened in this case. ATF asks local PD to keep their eye open for these guys. Any patrol officer worth their salt can follow someone for about 5 minutes and come up with a legitimate reason to stop them. They swerved, driving too fast, driving too slow, failed to come to a complete stop, etc. This is important as the initial justification for the stop has to be legal or anything they get can be inadmissible. As long as the polioce can justify reasons for detaining them (legal reasons not made up ones) keeping them for two hours is nothing. I've seen people legally detained for two days. Everything is done and there is no reason to seize the guns and arrest anyone. They're released. LEOs and yes even Feds just don't just work 9-5. Sometime after the release ATF found a reason to seize the guns and did so the next day. The guys may be charged with something later but maybe ATF findsit better to leave them out on the street for right now.

 

There are a bunch of reasons for stops, detention, and seizures that many people don't understand but they are legal.

Is this similar to the case of the men carrying all that cash in a hidden hydraulically operated compartment stopped for "a minor traffic violation" at I believe the George Washington Bridge last week?

[Tosser 61]

It smells fishy on the LEO side.

 

Sounds like a case of sick the FEDS on someone who the locals couldn't pinch.

 

 

The ATFe has the WORST track record of any federal agency. Anything they do should be scrutinized by the public.

 

 

 

For what reason can anyone come up with that the weapons would be seized but an arrest not made????

[HarryLee 0]

Can't imagine anyone committing crimes with firearms registered directly to themselves. Unless they were desperate or something....

[GRIZ 3,369]

It smells fishy on the LEO side.

 

Sounds like a case of sick the FEDS on someone who the locals couldn't pinch.

 

 

The ATFe has the WORST track record of any federal agency. Anything they do should be scrutinized by the public.

 

 

 

For what reason can anyone come up with that the weapons would be seized but an arrest not made????

 

It may be fishy or it may be good police work. Without the rest of the story you can't tell.

 

I said previously there are laws unique to the feds. I suppose you don't think local LEOs should report illegal aliens as most states have no laws regarding illegals.

 

I agree ATF has a bad rep as an agency. However there are a lot of ATF agents catching real criminals. I worked with a lot of them over 30 years.

 

There are a variety of reasons there is a seizure and no arrest. Here's an example that's closer to home. I live in AZ and unbeknowst to me buy a stolen handgun from someone. I move to NJ and sell it to you on a permit. All legit. NJSP gets their copy of the permit and finds the gun reported stolen. They seize the gun from you but don't arrest you.

 

There is more to this story. Too many people on gun forums jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story.

[raz-0 1,259]

It smells fishy on the LEO side.

 

Sounds like a case of sick the FEDS on someone who the locals couldn't pinch.

 

 

The ATFe has the WORST track record of any federal agency. Anything they do should be scrutinized by the public.

 

 

 

For what reason can anyone come up with that the weapons would be seized but an arrest not made????

 

I can think of a couple scenarios. Batfe does the footwork on the 4473s to determine the firearms were not purchased from an ffl by the two guys. Two guys say it was a legal face to face, but can't produce a receipt or other record on the spot. Guns a seized as evidence for a straw purchase investigation, guys are let to walk because they probably weren't a straw purchase.

 

Or because you have people stealing inventory from ffl A, and selling them under ffl B's license. Seized as stolen goods, but not previously reported, as they only came up as missing due to batfe compliance audit. The guys had no knowledge they were in receipt of stolen goods having made a legit purchase with 4473s and the batfe knows it so they walk.

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Is this similar to the case of the men carrying all that cash in a hidden hydraulically operated compartment stopped for "a minor traffic violation" at I believe the George Washington Bridge last week?

I could be wrong but i believe those types of hidden compartments are not legal in vehicles, again how they wound up searching the vehicle and finding it is pretty intriguing.

[Duppie 73]

I could be wrong but i believe those types of hidden compartments are not legal in vehicles

I believe it is also but my question is, what is the viability of such a compartment being discovered in a "routine traffic stop" without another agency tipping off the local LEO's of the existence of said compartment and the fact that a large amount of cash would be crossing the bridge.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I believe it is also but my question is, what is the viability of such a compartment being discovered in a "routine traffic stop" without another agency tipping off the local LEO's of the existence of said compartment and the fact that a large amount of cash would be crossing the bridge.

 

What difference does it make if one agency tips another and they catch criminals?

[tony357 386]

ATF involved of them driving through diffrent states..

 

Biggest crime here is carrying alot of cash..

[Duppie 73]

What difference does it make if one agency tips another and they catch criminals?

None what so ever..... I didn't frame my question as a hit against LEO's but I was wondering if the the two incidents was somewhat parallel. If you don't know then say so, but I didn't mean to offend.

[Murphy4570 15]

ATF involved of them driving through diffrent states..

 

Biggest crime here is carrying alot of cash..

 

That is not a crime.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

he was being sarcastic.... since it's not very smart to carry around thousands of dollars unless you absolutely have to.

[GRIZ 3,369]

None what so ever..... I didn't frame my question as a hit against LEO's but I was wondering if the the two incidents was somewhat parallel. If you don't know then say so, but I didn't mean to offend.

 

Finding a large amount of cash in itself doe not constitute sufficient probable cause for a charge of money laundering under federal law. I am not that familiar with NJ noney laundering statutes but I am sure they parallel the federal laws. Not being privy to the details of either case I can't say one way or the other. They could have been based on prior information or just good police work.

 

You probably don't remember when the NJSP was making significant drug seizures on the Turnpike on a regular basis. Nearly all of them were the result of good police work with no prior information. However the stops they made were based on profiling and this was deemed illegal because race was one of the factors. The FBI prosecuted a lot of cops because of profiling as a civil rights violation. This put an end to profiling and an end to the frequent significant drug arrests on the Turnpike.

 

This has come to bite us in the butt after 9/11 and one of the reasons we all have to take our shoes off to get on a plane.