Ran across this FBI data regarding murder. I want to live in Vermont now.

[SgtToadette 59]

In my internet escapades I came across this link to the FBI's website with the breakdown of murders by weapon on a state to state basis. I found Vermont to be particularly interesting. I'll let you guys look at the stat but WOW!

 

A quick look on Wikipedia tell me that Vermont has no permit necessary carry laws, open or concealed. I think I found heaven on earth. Anyone here care to shatter that dream and bring me back to reality or is that state really just that friggin' awesome?

[RubberBullets 65]

It's COLD in Vermont but other than that.... Awesome.

[mipafox 438]

In my internet escapades I came across this link to the FBI's website with the breakdown of murders by weapon on a state to state basis. I found Vermont to be particularly interesting. I'll let you guys look at the stat but WOW!

 

A quick look on Wikipedia tell me that Vermont has no permit necessary carry laws, open or concealed. I think I found heaven on earth. Anyone here care to shatter that dream and bring me back to reality or is that state really just that friggin' awesome?

 

No Cans (silencers) Allowed.

 

And lots of smelly hippies.

 

And, when November comes, you need to decide if you want to stay or you want to leave. Through April. Because of a lot of friggin snow.

 

I would deal with the Libs and smelly hippies and being snowed in but the "No Cans!" is a complete deal killer.

[SgtToadette 59]

No Cans (silencers) Allowed.

 

And lots of smelly hippies.

 

And, when November comes, you need to decide if you want to stay or you want to leave. Through April. Because of a lot of friggin snow.

 

I would deal with the Libs and smelly hippies and being snowed in but the "No Cans!" is a complete deal killer.

 

I do like myself some nice cans.

 

I'm generally left-leaning so the hippies won't bother me too too much.

 

My jury is still out on that whole cold thing.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

The Wife and I took a trip to Vt. several years ago. We stayed at a B and B near Stowe. Went for a drive into town, and parked the car. Walked past the Courthouse and noticed a single sheet of 8.5x11 paper tacked onto the front door, which reads, "Please, no Firearms in the Courthouse". As a Jersey resident, I don't need to apply for an out-of-state permit to CCW. As long as I'm not a prohibited person, I can carry w/o any permit at all.

 

Too bad it gets so damn cold in Free America, lol!

[mipafox 438]

The Wife and I took a trip to Vt. several years ago. We stayed at a B and B near Stowe. Went for a drive into town, and parked the car. Walked past the Courthouse and noticed a single sheet of 8.5x11 paper tacked onto the front door, which reads, "Please, no Firearms in the Courthouse". As a Jersey resident, I don't need to apply for an out-of-state permit to CCW. As long as I'm not a prohibited person, I can carry w/o any permit at all.

 

Too bad it gets so damn cold in Free America, lol!

 

Vermont is definitely great (except for the cans).

 

But they do not have gun lockers at their Courthouse. Every courthouse in PA is required to have gun lockers under Commonwealth law.

[halbautomatisch 60]

The interesting fact on that chart, is the fact that in many states more people are killed using hands, fists and feet than with rifles and shotguns (of any type) combined. That proves that the NJ AWB is totally useless at preventing crime.......... If only we could get some politicians to use common sense instead of playing on people's emotions.

[Soju 153]

Well based on that data, there are 3 other states that are comparable. North Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont's better neighbor, New Hampshire. All 4 states though have nice fun cold winters.

[vjf915 456]

Just keep in mind that it's not the location you live in, but yourself that can determine if someone targets you for a crime. I had this discussion with a friend a couple days ago. Criminals are attracted to opportunity. If you don't give a criminal an opportunity to target you for a crime, you'll be safer. Making your place of residence less of a target is pretty easy, this can be found online. It can be a bit harder in public in NJ though, but being aware of your surroundings can go quite a long way.

[SgtToadette 59]

Just keep in mind that it's not the location you live in, but yourself that can determine if someone targets you for a crime. I had this discussion with a friend a couple days ago. Criminals are attracted to opportunity. If you don't give a criminal an opportunity to target you for a crime, you'll be safer. Making your place of residence less of a target is pretty easy, this can be found online. It can be a bit harder in public in NJ though, but being aware of your surroundings can go quite a long way.

 

There's an excerpt from one of Dave Grossman's books that your comment reminded me of:

 

"There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: Slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself."

[mipafox 438]

Just keep in mind that it's not the location you live in, but yourself that can determine if someone targets you for a crime. I had this discussion with a friend a couple days ago. Criminals are attracted to opportunity. If you don't give a criminal an opportunity to target you for a crime, you'll be safer. Making your place of residence less of a target is pretty easy, this can be found online. It can be a bit harder in public in NJ though, but being aware of your surroundings can go quite a long way.

 

I once worked a contract that required me to work outside at the three most dangerous corners in every city on the East Coast for 13 months. Unarmed.

 

I was mugged about 30 times. But I failed every interview so I was never actually robbed.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'd skip Vermont, they love to let child molesters and pedophiles off easy.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Had a chance to move to Vermont about 6 years ago. Decided against it when we found that in Burlington (where we would have been relocating) it is 30 degrees or less 300 days of the year.

 

The no cans edict is not a firearms law, it is a fish & game law.

 

Don't get the idea that because Vermont has no firearms laws that they are a conservative Mecca - quite the opposite, one of the most liberal states in the union. One of their elected senators is a socialist. For conservative you have to move next door to NH and The Free State Project. It was nice having Constitutional Carry while visiting VT.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[mipafox 438]

The no cans edict is not a firearms law, it is a fish & game law.

 

Great. Move there, and get the ATF to approve a Form 1 or Form 4 for a can. They won't. Because they are illegal.

 

You can't buy or make a can in the state without 10 years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Just to be clear, what type of "can" are you folks chatting about?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I didn't say that cans weren't illegal, only that VT does not have any firearms laws. The suppressor prohibition is part of the fish and game laws.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I grew up in Vermont. Honestly - the amount of murders there are so low that any are HUGE news. I remember about 10 years back, there was a double homocide where a former restaurant owner killed the 2 current owners because they forced him out or something like that. It was shocking news to the whole state.

 

Yes, it gets cold and snows up there a lot. However, pretty much everyone up there knows it snows a lot, and they know how to drive in it. The snow clearing/road salting is also top notch. It's also generally pretty comfortable during the summer. We didn't have A/C except for a small portable unit that we barely used.

 

If I had a job lined up that paid as well as what I make here, I'd move up there pretty quickly. My parents still live up there and have a house on Lake Champlain. There's also a nice range about 5 minutes down the road from their house. Annual membership to that range is $50 (Outdoor Pistol, Rifle 200 yard, Archery as well as Trap & Skeet).

[mipafox 438]

I didn't say that cans weren't illegal, only that VT does not have any firearms laws. The suppressor prohibition is part of the fish and game laws.

 

Yup. It's actually a very minor violation as well. And, since cans can be transported across state lines without notifying ATF, if you lived outside of Vermont and took a can there probably the worst part of getting caught would be losing the can (I am not a lawyer, don't try this at home)

 

But, if you live there, you can't get ATF approval.

[mipafox 438]

Just to be clear, what type of "can" are you folks chatting about?

 

Silencers.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Being able to have surpressors and the court house having lock boxes for my gun are not exactly the first two things I look forin a place to live. My brother in law and his wife moved to Vermont 30 years ago and like it there. They describe the climate as winter and July.

 

 

 

There's an excerpt from one of Dave Grossman's books that your comment reminded me of:

 

"There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: Slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself."

 

These are not new findings or findings just made by Grossman. This targeting the sheep was something brought up when I was in the police academy in 1975. Jeff Cooper also mentions it in his video "Mental Conditioning" produced in the late 70s at Gunsite.

 

Your sex and age have nothing to do with you being targeted. If you look alert, aware of what's going on around you, and seem ready to react criminals will leave you alone and go for easy pickings.

[heaterbob 53]

I once worked a contract that required me to work outside at the three most dangerous corners in every city on the East Coast for 13 months. Unarmed.

 

I was mugged about 30 times. But I failed every interview so I was never actually robbed.

your pimp must have been a real prick

[RS1200XL 4]

For conservative you have to move next door to NH and The Free State Project. It was nice having Constitutional Carry while visiting VT.

 

I'd call it Libertarian rather than conservative.

[mipafox 438]

Being able to have surpressors and the court house having lock boxes for my gun are not exactly the first two things I look forin a place to live.

 

You don't care about living in a place where you can't own silencers?

 

Well, to each his own I guess. But I'll never be able to wrap my head around that line of thought.

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

You don't care about living in a place where you can't ifown silencers?

 

Well, to each his own I guess. But I'll never be able to wrap my head around that line of thought.

 

Don't try to twist what I said into something else. I said those two things were not exactly the first things I'd look for.

 

I guess if you have wrapped in your head that owning a surpressor as the first thing you'd look for in a place to live that's your priority not mine. Your list is for you and mine is for me. We all have our own priorities. I'd look at taxes, cost of living, general gun laws and other things. If you can't live without owning a surpressor and that's a deal breaker for you fine.

 

 

[mipafox 438]

 

 

Don't try to twist what I said into something else. I said those two things were not exactly the first things I'd look for.

 

I guess if you have wrapped in your head that owning a surpressor as the first thing you'd look for in a place to live that's your priority not mine. Your list is for you and mine is for me. We all have our own priorities. I'd look at taxes, cost of living, general gun laws and other things. If you can't live without owning a surpressor and that's a deal breaker for you fine.

 

Dude, calm down. I wasn't trying to twist anything. And, I didn't. I meant every word I said in every way and nothing more or less.

 

I look at it from the other direction. You can own silencers in almost all states. I'm not looking to move to a state with firearms restrictions. That's definitely a priority for me. Too many choices to settle for that crap in my mind. If there were only a few states that you could own cans in, maybe I would agree.

 

You are damn right it is a deal breaker for me. I said that long before you started this discussion.

[EchoMirage 137]

You don't care about living in a place where you can't own silencers?

 

Well, to each his own I guess. But I'll never be able to wrap my head around that line of thought.

 

says someone who lives in pa. why are you here again?

[mipafox 438]

 

 

says someone who lives in pa. why are you here again?

 

You have a problem with people that don't live in Jersey?

 

I've lived in Jersey longer than you have. Why are YOU here?

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Dude, calm down. I wasn't trying to twist anything. And, I didn't. I meant every word I said in every way and nothing more or less.

 

I look at it from the other direction. You can own silencers in almost all states. I'm not looking to move to a state with firearms restrictions. That's definitely a priority for me. Too many choices to settle for that crap in my mind. If there were only a few states that you could own cans in, maybe I would agree.

 

You are damn right it is a deal breaker for me. I said that long before you started this discussion.

 

Okay dude, you did twist it. I said surpressors weren't my first priority. You said I didn't care. Don't try to untwist your twist.

 

Most of us have other priorities and responsibilities to meet.

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,878]

You don't care about living in a place where you can't own silencers?

 

Well, to each his own I guess. But I'll never be able to wrap my head around that line of thought.

 

What would you rather have, a SUPPRESSOR (that's what they're REALLY called, not Silencers), or the means to support yourself and your family, while living comfortably?

[mipafox 438]

 

 

Okay dude, you did twist it. I said surpressors weren't my first priority. You said I didn't care. Don't try to untwist your twist.

 

Most of us have other priorities and responsibilities to meet.

 

GRIZ, if this is an internet argument over who's words are accurate, you win. That's fine.

 

You are splitting hairs. I don't sleep with you, it's not my responsibility to be sure I distinguish between your priorities and your cares. You twisted it in your own mind, it had nothing to do with me.