Unions fill deptford mall

[Turbotezza 1]

Unfortunately, it seems that many unions and companies have a similar relationship to the current set of Democrats and Republicans

[pepsi71ocean 2]

I feel that unions work in both directions. Personally I hate unions, but I do feel they have their place in this world. And please read the whole thing before you shoot at me.

 

For example, I quit a job working at Shoprite (9.50 hour) because the "union" told me 24 hours a week, and that I had to wait to get a full time slot, I could work extra hours, and this was night shift. That and the union pay scale sucked completely. The pay increase was 50 cents a year, the max was 14.50

 

I had numerous conversations with the union rep for the store and eventually I told him to (in better words, to take his union and shove it).

 

I then went and got a job at target, and was set to part time over night. Within a month they pushed me to 40 hours a week and I got all the overtime I wanted. Yea I made the same 9.50 an hour, but I was allowed to actually work, and help. I worked the floor, the back room and (by the time I left) I ran the unload

I got multiple raises for my dedication, within 6 months I went from 9.50 to 10.50, and then by the time I left there 2 years later I was making almost 14 an hour. NO one that was a team member made that that was there for so short of time.

 

I had vacation and sick time, and at target it was based on your hours not weeks. By the time I left I had almost 400 hours of sick and vacation time accrued.

 

 

I left target and then went to work for Brinks, full time. It too was not unionized, however for me the pay scale varied between 12.40 and 15.60 an hour. I could also work all the hours I wanted to, I averaged about 70 hours a week. Now the system there was 5 sick days and 7 vacations per year, and each year you got an additional 7, so year 2 would be 14, year 3 would be 21, but the max was 4 weeks in one year. The crappy part was, if you called out for any reason they more or less took it from your sick days, and well the conditions were harsh.

 

I feel that if there was any environment that should have had a union it was brinks. Because hell I have never been forced to quit before then, but then again robberies usually result in you being fired...

Now, I hated the union’s involvement in Shoprite I felt that the employees didn’t really care, they slacked off, and that in the end work was never truly finished, and the union would save employees who I felt should have been fired a long time ago.

For example my fiancées ex boyfriend, he was saved by the union more then 5 times in the 4 years he worked there. He was a miserable person, was constantly late on averages about once a week, he worked the after noon schedule, and had no other job, he was usually late by more then 15 mins, because he would realize its 3 o’clock and have to get off the gaming computer.

He also was short money, was rude to customers, but the union saved him, until he screwed himself. What a peace of driftwood he was, now if they got rid of him, my fiancée would have gotten some of his hours, not like it would have mattered but im sure it would have been better then the 28-30 hours.

 

Conversely, Brinks, I would have preferred a Union. I watched guys who worked there for years get fired for no reason. Actually, when you talked to the employees at Brinks they wanted to Unionize, and have tried, but Brinks broke them twice. Rather wise at Target most didn’t want a Union because they liked the ability to stay and work extra shifts or extra time when they wanted to.

 

Like I said I do feel that there is two sides to the Union thing, and well The only time I would have preferred a Union was at brinks, because they fired people for no reason, rather wise, Target was so afraid of the union they made the job and the benefits so enjoyable that people said there is no advantage.

 

I know its a lot, but I will say again I don’t like them, mainly because I spent time working for that completely turned me off because they have their “old” ways of doing things . Now if you like to excel at your job then non-union is the way to go, but if you like the safety and security then well Union is the way.

[this_is_nascar 162]

I feel that unions work in both directions. Personally I hate unions, but I do feel they have their place in this world. And please read the whole thing before you shoot at me.

 

For example, I quit a job working at Shoprite (9.50 hour) because the "union" told me 24 hours a week, and that I had to wait to get a full time slot, I could work extra hours, and this was night shift. That and the union pay scale sucked completely. The pay increase was 50 cents a year, the max was 14.50

 

I had numerous conversations with the union rep for the store and eventually I told him to (in better words, to take his union and shove it).

 

I then went and got a job at target, and was set to part time over night. Within a month they pushed me to 40 hours a week and I got all the overtime I wanted. Yea I made the same 9.50 an hour, but I was allowed to actually work, and help. I worked the floor, the back room and (by the time I left) I ran the unload

I got multiple raises for my dedication, within 6 months I went from 9.50 to 10.50, and then by the time I left there 2 years later I was making almost 14 an hour. NO one that was a team member made that that was there for so short of time.

 

I had vacation and sick time, and at target it was based on your hours not weeks. By the time I left I had almost 400 hours of sick and vacation time accrued.

 

 

I left target and then went to work for Brinks, full time. It too was not unionized, however for me the pay scale varied between 12.40 and 15.60 an hour. I could also work all the hours I wanted to, I averaged about 70 hours a week. Now the system there was 5 sick days and 7 vacations per year, and each year you got an additional 7, so year 2 would be 14, year 3 would be 21, but the max was 4 weeks in one year. The crappy part was, if you called out for any reason they more or less took it from your sick days, and well the conditions were harsh.

 

I feel that if there was any environment that should have had a union it was brinks. Because hell I have never been forced to quit before then, but then again robberies usually result in you being fired...

Now, I hated the union’s involvement in Shoprite I felt that the employees didn’t really care, they slacked off, and that in the end work was never truly finished, and the union would save employees who I felt should have been fired a long time ago.

For example my fiancées ex boyfriend, he was saved by the union more then 5 times in the 4 years he worked there. He was a miserable person, was constantly late on averages about once a week, he worked the after noon schedule, and had no other job, he was usually late by more then 15 mins, because he would realize its 3 o’clock and have to get off the gaming computer.

He also was short money, was rude to customers, but the union saved him, until he screwed himself. What a peace of driftwood he was, now if they got rid of him, my fiancée would have gotten some of his hours, not like it would have mattered but im sure it would have been better then the 28-30 hours.

 

Conversely, Brinks, I would have preferred a Union. I watched guys who worked there for years get fired for no reason. Actually, when you talked to the employees at Brinks they wanted to Unionize, and have tried, but Brinks broke them twice. Rather wise at Target most didn’t want a Union because they liked the ability to stay and work extra shifts or extra time when they wanted to.

 

Like I said I do feel that there is two sides to the Union thing, and well The only time I would have preferred a Union was at brinks, because they fired people for no reason, rather wise, Target was so afraid of the union they made the job and the benefits so enjoyable that people said there is no advantage.

 

I know its a lot, but I will say again I don’t like them, mainly because I spent time working for that completely turned me off because they have their “old” ways of doing things . Now if you like to excel at your job then non-union is the way to go, but if you like the safety and security then well Union is the way.

 

 

Up until becoming unemployed a couple years ago, I was in management for 25+ years. Trust me, no one gets fired for no reason.

[rightisright 3]

Unions are antithetical to capitalism because they create an artificial non-market driven wage. When above-market wage rates are imposed and/or coerced by unions, other workers are shut out of jobs, driving up unemployment.

 

The prevailing attitude of union workers seems to be "I got mine. I don't care if you get yours."

[Krdshrk 3,878]

The prevailing attitude of union workers seems to be "I got mine. I don't care if you get yours."

 

Case in point - the NJEA

[NJdiverTony 27]

Case in point - the NJEA

 

+1

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Of course you blame the teachers for wanting a middle class pay and health insurance. Forget about the politicians who rape the system of every penny they can get. That can't be why the states broke.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Of course you blame the teachers for wanting a middle class pay and health insurance. Forget about the politicians who rape the system of every penny they can get. That can't be why the states broke.

 

I don't blame the teachers. I blame the NJEA Union leadership for blindly pandering to the politicians and refusing to do anything except make more money for themselves. I blame the mindless sheeple that believe everything their leadership says and refuse to think for themselves. I blame the politicians that pander to the lobbyists to take their money and wind up doing nothing.

 

There's a lot of blame to go around.

[when_shtf 4]

Good 'ol class warfare, brought to you by Unions, Socialists, Marxists & Communists - and everyone else that blames "other people" for their lot in life.

[Silphidae 33]

I had to pay $120 for a union person to plug in each electrical cord while I was working at a convention in Philly 7 years ago. I can't imagine that would be the going rate in a free market....seems very unamerican that we're forced to pay an overinflated price for simple work. If I needed an electrician to do the work for safety reasons I'd like to have the option to bid it out to a qualified person rather than get charged a such an absurdly high rate for such a silly task. That one experience really left me with a bad taste for the union extortion machine in Philly.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Without unions there would be no middle class. That's all we try and do is just stay in the middle class.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Without unions there would be no middle class. That's all we try and do is just stay in the middle class.

 

 

Are you serious?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Absolutely. I am by no means rich at all. My wife and I both work and still aren't rich. She works for the state and I'm an insulator. You guys really have no clue what our paychecks look like. You hear these insane dollar amounts but we really don't make that.

[rightisright 3]

Without unions there would be no middle class.

 

Seriously? I don't even know where to begin with that whopper. I'll come back when I have a few free days to devote to an answer.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Even nonunion jobs are based off union rates. If it wasn't for unions sweatshops would be just as popular here as they are in countries without unions.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Absolutely. I am by no means rich at all. My wife and I both work and still aren't rich. She works for the state and I'm an insulator. You guys really have no clue what our paychecks look like. You hear these insane dollar amounts but we really don't make that.

 

 

I don't think any of us are doubting or even caring about what your paychecks look like. For me, I'm more concerned with your God-like following of the unions. Why? Why lose your thoughts and voice and give that up to a group of people (the union) whose only interests is to make money. You do understand that unions are businesses, right? They are a for-profit organization that wants to do nothing more than take your money and give you nothing in return. How sad it must be to doubt your ability to negotiate so badly, that you give up all your rights, your freedoms and your voice to a group called "a union". Wow.

[rightisright 3]

Even nonunion jobs are based off union rates. If it wasn't for unions sweatshops would be just as popular here as they are in countries without unions.

 

Do they hand out a booklet of these bumper-sticker lies to every union member? If so, I'd demand my dues be put to better use!

 

As to the first part of your statement, I've owned a contracting company for 25 years and I can tell you it is patently false. I pay employees and sub-contractors what they are worth to me. If I am paying too little, I will not get any workers or sub-par workers at best and my business will fail. If I pay a decent rate (aka, letting the MARKET decide), I will get the job done for a fair price and make a profit. The bloated rates the unions charge have absolutely no bearing on what I pay.

 

And the second part???? You really think in this day and age (aka the Information Age) sweatshops would prosper in the USA? I'm serious. Do you really think that?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I still have a voice. I by no means do whatever they tell me. The actual organization being a business but our hall handles thing differently. We actually go against what our international tells us all the time. For instance our union hall isn't owned by the union, it's owned by the members. In other territories the international can come in and take over. We made sure that can't happen. They also push us to keep bringing in apprentices but we will only bring in apprentices as we need em. They are looking for more dues while we look at keeping the guys we have working. Some halls like the carpenters can't even vote on contracts and where money goes. We have monthly meetings and work these things out. We did just build a $5,500,000 union hall but that was an investment. We put a ballroom in there and rent it out for events like weddings and what not. We also put in a a great school. We needed that because we have been using a hole in the wall building in Philly for years. We keep around 500 members and everybody knows everybody. It's not like the carpenters where they have 10000 members in Philly alone.

[checko 180]

I still have a voice. I by no means do whatever they tell me. The actual organization being a business but our hall handles thing differently. We actually go against what our international tells us all the time. For instance our union hall isn't owned by the union, it's owned by the members. In other territories the international can come in and take over. We made sure that can't happen. They also push us to keep bringing in apprentices but we will only bring in apprentices as we need em. They are looking for more dues while we look at keeping the guys we have working. Some halls like the carpenters can't even vote on contracts and where money goes. We have monthly meetings and work these things out. We did just build a $5,500,000 union hall but that was an investment. We put a ballroom in there and rent it out for events like weddings and what not. We also put in a a great school. We needed that because we have been using a hole in the wall building in Philly for years. We keep around 500 members and everybody knows everybody. It's not like the carpenters where they have 10000 members in Philly alone.

 

You tell us how unions are so necessary but you don't even trust the judgement of their leadership? Even to the point to "protect" yourselves from the international?? Sounds a bit inconsistant.

[this_is_nascar 162]

You tell us how unions are so necessary but you don't even trust the judgement of their leadership? Even to the point to "protect" yourselves from the international?? Sounds a bit inconsistant.

 

 

You beat me to it.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I just my union. Around the country it may be different but where I'm at it's good.

[checko 180]

But why are you protecting yourself from a union if they are to be welcomed?

[A-Tech 8]

Without unions there would be no middle class. That's all we try and do is just stay in the middle class.

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one....

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Some industries unions are good in others they are not. I think unions served a greater purpose in years past than they do in today's world.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GRIZ 3,369]

Without unions there would be no middle class. That's all we try and do is just stay in the middle class.

 

DOL stats say 17% or so of the workforce in NJ are in unions. I would guess (but can come up with a more accurate figure if pressed) that would maybe represent 25% or less of the middle class.

 

How are the rest of them making it without a union?

[Zell959 40]

DOL stats say 17% or so of the workforce in NJ are in unions. I would guess (but can come up with a more accurate figure if pressed) that would maybe represent 25% or less of the middle class.

 

How are the rest of them making it without a union?

 

Hard work

[A-Tech 8]

 

Hard work

 

+1... seems to work fine for me.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Once again union stereotypes that guys don't work. That's like saying everyone who owns a gun is a murderer. As far as my hall protecting itself. You should always protect yourself. If you leave yourself open eventually someone will take advantage. The people running the hall are human can can make mistakes and can be corrupt. Not saying everyone is but in the event it happens your better off being protected. Just like all of you want to carry a gun just incase someone may attack you. Not everyone will but it's possible. My union has gotten involved for me on job sites when companies wanted to cut corners on safety equipment to save a buck. Of I was nonunion I would have been canned but because I had representation the problems were fixed and I still worked. I actually had a company want me to strip asbestos without a respirator on. Then that same company wanted me to pay for my fit test out of pocket. Both are a no no. My agent was there bright and early the next morning to straighten it all out. I was told no matter what show up on time but do not go in any contaminated areas til I had my safety equipment. Guess what all of a sudden getting my equipment showed up. Then we had laborers removing asbestos and not showering afterwards. They would walk right into the break room contaminated. Once again the ba straightened it out. I would have been out the door in a second without my union. Then some other sap would be dieing of mesothelioma down the road.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Once again union stereotypes that guys don't work. That's like saying everyone who owns a gun is a murderer. As far as my hall protecting itself. You should always protect yourself. If you leave yourself open eventually someone will take advantage. The people running the hall are human can can make mistakes and can be corrupt. Not saying everyone is but in the event it happens your better off being protected. Just like all of you want to carry a gun just incase someone may attack you. Not everyone will but it's possible. My union has gotten involved for me on job sites when companies wanted to cut corners on safety equipment to save a buck. Of I was nonunion I would have been canned but because I had representation the problems were fixed and I still worked. I actually had a company want me to strip asbestos without a respirator on. Then that same company wanted me to pay for my fit test out of pocket. Both are a no no. My agent was there bright and early the next morning to straighten it all out. I was told no matter what show up on time but do not go in any contaminated areas til I had my safety equipment. Guess what all of a sudden getting my equipment showed up. Then we had laborers removing asbestos and not showering afterwards. They would walk right into the break room contaminated. Once again the ba straightened it out. I would have been out the door in a second without my union. Then some other sap would be dieing of mesothelioma down the road.

 

Safety issues can be addressed to OSHA and NJ DOL. They will penalize the violator and you could recover lost wages. If enough people do this word gets around and potential violators stop even thinking of breaching regulations. Of course unions don't pursue this avenue because there is nothing in it for them. Your union rep showing up and convincing this guy to comply just leaves this guy to try and do the same thing again. If he had to pay a fine and your lost wages he'd remember.

 

You might question the value of using a government agency. I was not permitted any union represntation in the position I held as a civilian in Federal government. Any grievances could be pursued through the Merit Systems Protection Board, the Office of Personnel Management, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and agency grievance procedures. I used all of these at times. Yeah, as a white male I filed a couple of EEO complaints and retaliation complaints. Never used an attorney for any of this. I'm not trying to say I'm the smartest guy in the world just trying to illustrate the procedures are not that difficult. Oh yeah, you don't "win" these things when your a Federal employee, they are "settled" or thrown out. Always "settled" on mine.

 

Unions are not needed today as they have been in the past. Maybe due to my military background (active duty, Guard, and Reserves from 1967 to 2009) I find the "its not my job" thing extremely distasteful. If we had unions in the military we never would have won any war. I know union guys who were out of work for over a year while the "union officers" still drew their paychecks and drove cars leased by the union. Their wives and girlfriends did too for doing office work and getting paid union scale. $45 an hour for filing And knocking out letters on a pc!

 

The hierarchy in most unions, their efforts to perpetuate mediocre performance, and their "for the worker" mentality are way too reminiscent of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Ha ha ha ha OSHA yeah they'll do something. Maybe 3 months later when they might show up and then give the employer ample time to fix it. By that time you already canned with do not rehire written on your file. Yeah I hope that was a joke.