Unions fill deptford mall

[checko 180]

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

 

Laughable. The economy is the one who doesn't like unions.

 

Im with NJDiver. I've been in a teamsters union and they did absolutely nothing for us but take our dues and negotiate terrible agreements. I left that job as soon as possible. In my opinion most (not all) unions only collect money and promote laziness with a do as little to get by as possible attitude. Unless of course you want your colleagues to give you crap for "showing off".

 

 

For the last 10 years I've been with a company who pays and promotes based on merit not seniority, and "job security" means you are safe as long as you do a good job. I've been running a 35 million dollar store in since my mid 20's. Good luck with that in union.

[NJdiverTony 27]

In my opinion most (not all) unions only collect money and promote laziness with a so as little to get by as possible. Unless of course you want your colleagues to give you crap for "showing off".

 

+10000000000

 

When I was a union guy, the high seniority guys would constantly get on my case for being a hard worker... I used to get comments and threats like: "Oh, you need to slow down... you're making the rest of us look bad, and if you keep it up you better watch your back" and etc... I even came close to duking it out with a couple of guys because they were so pissed off that I "caused" them to have to work during their regular work day (because I was doing a lot more work than they were and management was able to see that) and was impeding them from carrying their work into overtime. After a few years of that BS, I was just sickened with the whole union mentality. I worked as technical guy, so myself and a lot of the youngers guys I worked with were very good about keeping up with training on new technology and certifications so we could stay current with the industry... While the high seniority guys would tell management to go FUGG themselves and wouldn't pursue any training. They were just content being lazy POS's and letting their seniority protect them.

[checko 180]

Lol real team players there. Sadly its a common problem, for honest hard working people of course. I grew up in nyc so if you didn't go to college and you were a lazy person your goal was to get in a union. Again, this is not to say all union workers are lazy, because I know for a fact they aren't, but it promotes this attitude.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Its like...employed welfare.

 

People pay more, so you can get more, for not doing more.

 

You say its better for the economy if your paid more? I say its better for the economy if the money stays with the business and gets re-invested into growth.

 

But I digress

[A-Tech 8]

 

you really have no idea what youre talking about. all you know about unions is what you think you see when theres a road crew digging up the street. you dont know what being union in the building trades means.

 

vacations?? i get NO vacation. im laid off more then enough to never worry about a 'vacation'. i dont know WTF kind of union you think you know about, but there is no way in hell anyone gets a vacation, let alone for 'months.' and no such thing as 'personal days.' you dont work, you dont get paid. period.

 

and why would an electrician pick up a shovel to dig a hole? take a guess....ITS NOT HIS JOB. thats WHY there are laborers. being specialized in a trade makes MORE jobs for other people, so you dont have a dozen 'jack of all trades' doing everything from sweeping the floor to welding. not to mention giving everyone a specific job makes them specialized in that field. i had to go through 5 years of apprenticeship to be a journeyman pipefitter. why in gods fycking name would i pick up a screwdriver and start doing electrical work??? why the fyck do you think i suffered through 5 years of schooling to be a fitter....so i can NOT do what i was trained in and sweep the fycking floor??? get your head out of your a**. we are TRAINED and SKILLED tradesmen, who have the proper schooling and experience to earn the money we're paid.

 

i have seen first hand the difference between union labor and an illegal immigrant hired off the street on the same job. and because the general contractor paid off the mason hall, and hired non-skilled help, the job took twice as long because they had to fix all the screwups that the NON UNION people did.

 

its people like YOU who give unions a bad name. not the union brothers.

 

First, if I offended your ability to do whatever your skill is, than I apologize. I don't doubt one bit how much hard work you and others have put into your knowledge and career.

 

 

What I was saying wasn't that an electrician or other skilled person should ALWAYS be doing a laborers job, or "sweeping a floor", but that if 5 minutes of labored work could keep a job moving, why cant said worker just do it? I understand the whole providing jobs and being above the lower guys scraping dirt off the floor, but people who aren't in a union, typically do those things to keep the work flow moving.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Most of my work is in refineries and power plants. They have a crew of laborers who just clean up, dig, handle trash, direct traffic and other labor jobs so no I never pick up shovels. I move on to the next job because in those places you have no problems finding something to do. Now yes we have lazy guys. They are usually close to retirement and did their time working. We make them drive vehicles, work tool rooms, work in the shop or other jobs that aren't so rough on the bottle. But to me I don't call em lazy I call them senior. Just because they are beat up from years of doing labor doesn't mean you just drag em out in a field and shoot em. At 55 they can retire. We have apprentices and young journeymen for the hard jobs. The jobs those guys get that are easier still have to be done no matter what. So they do em. Also I'll put my skill next to a degree any day. I went through a 5 year accredited apprenticeship that not only taught the trade but included math and history so it counted as college credits. We have uniforms and are issued laptops also. We don't just take anyone off the street and hand em a tool and call em a worker. People really don't know what unions are about anymore. Times have changed and so did we.

[intercooler 41]

Unions make me sick

 

[Urban Grunt 44]

[NJScott 15]

Shawnmoore81, on 05 July 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

 

"The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners."

 

I WAS a member of several unions, and have zero positive things to say about them. Beginning with their mindless, support-the-democrat political leanings, to their intransigence when it comes to negotiating with management, they are an anachronism in today's world and economy.

 

I watched how they destroyed the Pabst Brewing Company, declining to consider any givebacks in benefits, which then caused the Newark plant to be shut down permanently and the brewing equipment to be shipped to China. None of the local unions in that place did a thing to help the hundreds of teamsters, pipe-fitters, boilermakers, etc. who were now jobless. But my wife, the HR specialist did, placing calls to Stroh's in PA and working a deal with her counterparts at Anheuser-Busch to place guys in jobs there. I saw first hand how the greed and antiquated mindset of those union "leaders" (who drove around in Town Cars and Caddies and all had second homes down the shore) destroyed a viable, venerable company.

 

My first job out of high school was the GM Assembly plant in Linden. I don't know if there is enough bandwidth to go into the many examples of how some of those idiot union folks victimized their own membership. While some of the shop stewards were good guys with honest intentions, it was always the upper hierarchy of the local that dropped the ball or fugged things up. Again, these were the guys who didn't actually have to WORK for a living, content to spend our union dues like it was coming out of a private piggy bank.

 

Please don't lecture me or anyone else here on unions, Shawn. You've got your gig, your union and you're happy. Good for you, but don't expect everyone else to be simpatico with your viewpoint. By the way, how comfortable are you knowing that the many millions and millions of campaign dollars donated by unions in this country go to support the very same anti-2A politicians that we rail about on here?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Actually I was responding to what people said to me so you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it. I posted an article that I was in if you didn't like it then you can mossey on down to the next post. But if you say something negative about unions you better expect the union brothers on here to respond. However your north jersey unions are ran I don't know. I'm guessing tony soprano probably runs em so maybe you have your problems. I know all the guys who run mine and they worked with their tools til they ran for the position. As a matter of fact our entire executive board still works everyday with their tools. Most people opinions on unions are based off of rumor and as what people are saying on here shows it. Don't be jelous of what union guys have fought for fight for it for yourself.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Btw if my hall asks me to go campaign for Obama I will gladly laugh in their face. I'm a dues paying worker but I am not a mindless robot. I have no problem calling any of em out.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Please. The unions are a major contributing factor to the way the economy sits today. Back in the day, the unions served a well-needed purpose. That purpose went away 20-30 years ago, easily. I'm a bit tired today, so I won't get into right now, but had to reply to this thread.

[checko 180]

Most people opinions on unions are based off of rumor and as what people are saying on here shows it. Don't be jelous of what union guys have fought for fight for it for yourself.

 

Actually there have been at least 4 people in this tread who commented about personal experience, not rumor at all. I can personally say im not jealous of seeing people who don't deserve to be paid more or promoted first before me. Ill earn my position and wage, I don't need it to be handed to me because I haven't gotten fired the longest.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

The building trades are a lot different then that.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I can personally say im not jealous of seeing people who don't deserve to be paid more or promoted first before me. Ill earn my position and wage, I don't need it to be handed to me because I haven't gotten fired the longest.

 

Any system that does not promote individual excellence and punish incompetence is doomed to mediocrity.

 

That being said, I have no personal experience with unions, however I am generally against them for purposes of promoting ingenuity, creativity, performance, etc.

 

My 1 biggest turn off from unions is the NJEA. Blind leadership pandering to the politicians (the amount spent on lobbying could be put towards creating more teacher's jobs, paying pensions, health care, etc), while misrepresenting their members.

[NJScott 15]

Actually I was responding to what people said to me so you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it. I posted an article that I was in if you didn't like it then you can mossey on down to the next post. But if you say something negative about unions you better expect the union brothers on here to respond. However your north jersey unions are ran I don't know. I'm guessing tony soprano probably runs em so maybe you have your problems. I know all the guys who run mine and they worked with their tools til they ran for the position. As a matter of fact our entire executive board still works everyday with their tools. Most people opinions on unions are based off of rumor and as what people are saying on here shows it. Don't be jelous of what union guys have fought for fight for it for yourself.

 

Real intelligent retort there. Yup, you're definitely UNION material.

[silverado427 10,778]

Wow some horror stories, All i know is In the NJ carpenters locals. You put out or you get out , You either give 110% or you get your walking papers. Contractors are ruthless, And the worst trade for laziness is IMO electricians

[tony357 386]

Unions suck, This is nothing more than politics..

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Exactly. Brand is one of our biggest contractors and they are a carpenter outfit. You don't work you go back to the hall

[Edge 6]

I have been a member of the IBEW for 40 years, most of you gentlemen commenting here have no idea what you're talking about. For those of you who are putting forth the idea and opinion that unions are no longer needed and have worn out their usefulness are woefully out of touch. Unions are needed now as much, if not more, than back in the 20's and 30's. The days of the Robber Barrons are back gentlemen, just look at what most CEO's are making. Oh, pardon me, most of you prolly dont know what or who the Robber Barrons were......

[checko 180]

I have been a member of the IBEW for 40 years, most of you gentlemen commenting here have no idea what you're talking about. For those of you who are putting forth the idea and opinion that unions are no longer needed and have worn out their usefulness are woefully out of touch. Unions are needed now as much, if not more, than back in the 20's and 30's. The days of the Robber Barrons are back gentlemen, just look at what most CEO's are making. Oh, pardon me, most of you prolly dont know what or who the Robber Barrons were......

 

So the head of a fortune 50 company should be making what exactly? Thats the way business works.

 

I appreciate your opinion but to say that workers rights are as bad as the 20's and insult others as if they've never read a history book is a bit much. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are no Carnegie and Rockefeller.

[heaterbob 53]

I have been a member of the IBEW for 40 years, most of you gentlemen commenting here have no idea what you're talking about. For those of you who are putting forth the idea and opinion that unions are no longer needed and have worn out their usefulness are woefully out of touch. Unions are needed now as much, if not more, than back in the 20's and 30's. The days of the Robber Barrons are back gentlemen, just look at what most CEO's are making. Oh, pardon me, most of you prolly dont know what or who the Robber Barrons were......

I think the one's commenting here do know what they are talking about. As a contractor who started his own business, I can you what the problem is. Its called prevailing rate which is set way to high when it comes to government work, I do a lot of commercial work and was asked to bid on the hvac on a new police station, when I checked the rate prior to bidding I found out I had to pay my guys 90 bucks per hour, sorry but a worker is not worth that much. as for ceo's making millions good for them, isn't that what america is all about. to get the fruit you must be willing to go out on the limb.

[voyager9 3,439]

It all comes down to checks and balances. Unions were (and are) in place as a check against the power of businesses and to keep them from exploiting workers. To that end they've been remarkably successful with things like working conditions, wages.etc. Unforunately that success has swung things the other way in many respects and there is no check or balance against the power of the Union.

 

On a small scale the success of a business and the success of a union are linked. The union is mostly made of the workers and if the business fails so does their livelihood. Once the union gets too big, or too powerful that breaks down and the union becomes focused more on more power, growth..etc.. even to the detriment of the business (and ergo sometimes the workers). You can't tell me that the union is acting in the best interests of its members if it forces contracts that force companies to shutdown or move overseas..

[Shawnmoore81 623]

When you say a certain ammount an hour the worker doesn't get that full amount. It gets divided into pay, health and welfare, pension, annuity, and a bunch of other things. The companies are not responsible for any benefits at all. It all gets paid to the hall an the hall has a plan.

 

http://www.local-14.org/home.html

[tony357 386]

Just about everyone i know without a job belongs to a union.. and alot of guys only working 2 days a week..

[RS1200XL 4]

When you say a certain ammount an hour the worker doesn't get that full amount. It gets divided into pay, health and welfare, pension, annuity, and a bunch of other things. The companies are not responsible for any benefits at all. It all gets paid to the hall an the hall has a plan.

 

http://www.local-14.org/home.html

 

Sounds a little socialist....

[Shawnmoore81 623]

How is it socialist? You can work for multiple companies a year so the insurance is done through our hall. As you as you keep enough hours you are covered. 400 every 6 months.

[Turbotezza 1]

Do the CEO's in unionised companies make less because of the efforts of the union?

 

I have been a member of the IBEW for 40 years, most of you gentlemen commenting here have no idea what you're talking about. For those of you who are putting forth the idea and opinion that unions are no longer needed and have worn out their usefulness are woefully out of touch. Unions are needed now as much, if not more, than back in the 20's and 30's. The days of the Robber Barrons are back gentlemen, just look at what most CEO's are making. Oh, pardon me, most of you prolly dont know what or who the Robber Barrons were......

[checko 180]

It all comes down to checks and balances. Unions were (and are) in place as a check against the power of businesses and to keep them from exploiting workers. To that end they've been remarkably successful with things like working conditions, wages.etc. Unforunately that success has swung things the other way in many respects and there is no check or balance against the power of the Union.

 

On a small scale the success of a business and the success of a union are linked. The union is mostly made of the workers and if the business fails so does their livelihood. Once the union gets too big, or too powerful that breaks down and the union becomes focused more on more power, growth..etc.. even to the detriment of the business (and ergo sometimes the workers). You can't tell me that the union is acting in the best interests of its members if it forces contracts that force companies to shutdown or move overseas..

 

This I can agree with. I can see a niche where exploited workers need protection and support. But we have like, you know, laws and stuff.

 

 

[302w 83]

Screw unions! I would rather hire the illegal alien down the street for $10 an hour! That way I have to have the job redone in 10 years, and he can drag the rest of his family and kilos of coke here too!

 

In all seriousness, I support the average union worker but I feel that they are horribly mismanaged. I feel that a big "reset" button needs to be pressed on many of them.