Unions fill deptford mall

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Also the it's not my job isn't about being lazy its about having a specialized craft and that craft being done by the people who are meant to do it.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Just another to throw out there. OSHA actually had no choice but to get involved with this one. The exelon plant in eddystone pa was forging asbestos bulk samples and saying areas were clean. Meanwhile they weren't even really testing them. Don't worry my union that does nothing got that straightened out and their is a lawsuit pending

[Zell959 40]

Once again union stereotypes that guys don't work.

 

Plenty do. It's just not mandatory, which is inherently ridiculous.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Ha ha ha ha OSHA yeah they'll do something. Maybe 3 months later when they might show up and then give the employer ample time to fix it. By that time you already canned with do not rehire written on your file. Yeah I hope that was a joke.

 

You ever call them? If not then what do you base your response on. Or is your response what the union told you?

 

All I know is working through govt agencies worked for me. If you haven't tried it you have no basis for your statement.

 

Are you also telling me that your union would not send you someplace else to work?

 

So I guess you agree with everything else I said other than OSHA?

[checko 180]

Ha ha ha ha OSHA yeah they'll do something. Maybe 3 months later when they might show up and then give the employer ample time to fix it. By that time you already canned with do not rehire written on your file. Yeah I hope that was a joke.

 

Yeah that's about the same time it takes to get a union road paved. On a serious note, ill tell you OSHA doesn't mess around. Huge penalties and fines can be levied for unsafe conditions which I have seen happen. Like 5k for a pallet standing on end. You have no idea how it works.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Also the it's not my job isn't about being lazy its about having a specialized craft and that craft being done by the people who are meant to do it.

 

Highly specialized crafts like turning a generator on and off or digging a hole? Come on if we are talkling insulators, electricians, and carpenters yes that's much more specialized. I wouldn't want an insulator doing elecrical work. However I can't see how you justify digging a hole or turning a generator on and off, both of which a 12 year old can do as "specialized crafts". How much education and apprenticeship is required for a laborer to dig a hole?

[rightisright 3]

How much education and apprenticeship is required for a laborer to dig a hole?

 

In the union, 5 years.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Ever see a cop dig a hole? How about a teacher? Ever see an electrician arrest someone? How about a laborer teach chemistry? Probably not because it's not their job.

 

As far as OSHA before I got into my union I was a safety coordinator for Madison industrial services team so yes I actually know quite a bit about dealing with OSHA. There are so few OSHA workers in ratio to job sites you may go your whole career and never see one. If you do call them chances are you won't be there by the time they make it out. Unless someone is dead they are in no rush.

[Kaiser7 33]

I am quite aware of unions existence, though I wish I were not. I'm actually reading a book right now on the Deindustrialization of America, and so far, the arguments made are that union demands were gladly met when companies had decent growth, around 15%, but as they declined to about 10% per year in the 1970s and 1980s, they started relocating, first to the south and west, and then out of the country. There are other factors as well, but the fact that a company can move production overseas, ship materials there, bring the finished products back here, get them through customs and all that, and still have them be cheaper, is a testament to the issue with overly powerful unions, and how they are to blame for the loss of the jobs they claim to protect.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one....

 

It's not a hard concept to understand. Unions fight to keep wages from going down, and they fight to increase wages with inflation. YET, there is still a growing division between the upper class and middle class. Most economist will tell you that the middle class is actually now considered the lower-middle class. and many middle class families have fallen below the poverty line.

 

Now, im not going to argue that Unions aren't a bunch of greedy asshats, but they do more to help out the middle class then anyone else.

Someone mentioned laws, Labor Laws are a joke, and goodluck filing a lawsuit against the company you work for when you not in a union and keeping your job. So is it a trade off? absolutely. Schools are now starting to outsourcing secretaries and support staff, this is there way of getting around the unions, paying people crap wages and no benefits. I don't know how these people plan on supporting themselves when most people in the public school system i know have 2 jobs just to support their families.

[rightisright 3]

Ever see an electrician dig a trench to run conduit? How about a plumber carry bags of gravel mix into a basement and mix them to cover the PVC he just ran through the floor? How about a trim carpenter help a window crew lift a heavy window to install it?

 

I've seen all of those examples and thousands more. Know why? I don't hire union "it's not my job" workers.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I am quite aware of unions existence, though I wish I were not. I'm actually reading a book right now on the Deindustrialization of America, and so far, the arguments made are that union demands were gladly met when companies had decent growth, around 15%, but as they declined to about 10% per year in the 1970s and 1980s, they started relocating, first to the south and west, and then out of the country. There are other factors as well, but the fact that a company can move production overseas, ship materials there, bring the finished products back here, get them through customs and all that, and still have them be cheaper, is a testament to the issue with overly powerful unions, and how they are to blame for the loss of the jobs they claim to protect.

 

This is called smoke and mirrors... how is an economy supposed to grow when you take the biggest part of the economy out of the country? This is a domino effect.. sales slow down and the company's first instinct is to move somewhere cheaper... instead of restructuring the company to account for the loss in sales... So economy slows, companies move out of country, economy slows even more because you removed factors that help the economy grow, and some how that's the unions fault. why did so many companies leave NJ? had nothing to do with unions, the state made it practically impossible for them to stay here. The taxes in my town are HALF of my neighboring town, simply because we have Industries in town. For most places, industry is gone, and the cost of living skyrocketed.

 

 

You do know what a sweat shop is right? how do you feel about buying sneakers that cost 100 bucks, that cost a company 10 dollars to make and paid some guy 5 dollars a day?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Right now our industry is hurting due to enviromental regs and people not building. We have all kinds of jobs on the books waiting to start but they just aren't starting. Sunoco Marcus hook is dead due to enviromental regs. That refinery has no scrubber so it's screwed. Sunoco eagles point has been disassembled and sent to India because they don't care about regs. A union and the del city refinery has been sent to china because it caused to much pollution. We have 3 coal burners that are either closing or closed also due to enviromental regs. You guys are stuck on unions in factories and production lines. The building trades have absolutely nothing at all to do with them. We build and maintain. All that showed up at the mall was building trades. I know some of those unions can be messed up. My wife's union for example is a joke. The union covers 1 office and they have 1 rep. He does nothing for the workers unless he is forced too. The workers have a no strike clause so they really have no power. Just because you hate unions for what ever reason or whoever told you to hate em that's just fine and dandy. Just remember the weekends wouldn't exist if there was no unions.

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Just remember the weekends wouldn't exist if there was no unions.

 

I'm pretty sure the weekends would still be there.... we wouldn't pop out of existence for 2 days each week....

[rightisright 3]

You guys are stuck on unions in factories and production lines. The building trades have absolutely nothing at all to do with them.

 

I'm not stuck on factory or production lines... Read my posts.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

40 hour work weeks were created by unions. Saturday would just be another day. I take it you never took history in school

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I read your post and I answered it. Our guys specialize in our trades. And like I said earlier company owners don't like unions because they can't take advantage of their workers.

[checko 180]

Keep drinking your kool-aid and doing your part to send american jobs overseas.

[rightisright 3]

No, company owners (such as myself) don't like union employees because their work ethic is in the shitter and we have to pay them a non-market driven wage. If a plumber shows up on my job site and refuses to carry a few bags of gravel mix into the basement, he's gone. That's the free-market working right there. I'd suggest some Hayek as a primer for you.

 

Oh yeah, the $$ you guys pay in dues inevitably goes to gun-hating democrats. Thanks for that.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

When I'm retired at 55 collecting a full pension and receiving my lump sum annuity check I'll think of your bag of gravel and think wow I really made a mistake. I'm sure your workers will be canned before that for not being able to climb a ladder anymore. But why would you care you already exploited every dollar you can out of them.

[checko 180]

There's the union mentality we know and love

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Yup, work towards retirement. How dare I.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If the work you did.. genuinely warranted the wage you wanted.. there would be no need for the union..

A long time ago.. when there were not strict regulations governing safety... working conditions.. etc.. unions were useful as they fought for fairness..

Now they just fight to get you the piece of the pie so they can get their share..

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Did you not just read the post about exelon forging asbestos bulk samples? That was 2 years ago. God knows how many people they dosed over the years doing that. Believe me people will risk a worker to make a dollar.

[when_shtf 4]

When I'm retired at 55 collecting a full pension and receiving my lump sum annuity check I'll think of your bag of gravel and think wow I really made a mistake

 

Right there is why you love your union. And that financial arrangement and ones like it are the very reason most states and cities are nearly bankrupt.

 

Well done unions.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Our pension is handled by our union hall. The companies pay us a wage and that wage gets divided up into different areas. Once we are laid off the company is done with us.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Right there is why you love your union. And that financial arrangement and ones like it are the very reason most states and cities are nearly bankrupt.

 

Well done unions.

I'd argue the states inability to manage money is the reason there bankrupt. How dare people force their employer to pay them a wage they can actually live on.

 

If we cut half the spending in this state on programs that DO NOT WORK, we wouldnt be in this mess. But the politicians want there cut and need the donations to stay.

Until politics change, the Unions are just playing the same game as everyone else.

Case and point

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

[raz-0 1,259]

 

Truth,

 

 

As a proud union member, I can't really pinpoint why the extreme hate for unions throughout the country.

 

Probably right around the time the unions pushed hard into public sector workplaces that already had strong protections on the workforce. I have to deal with them and I can tell you there are a lot of incompetents who should be fired, and when a worker has a legit gripe, they are left out to dry through incompetence.

 

Beyond that there was this change sometime in the 70s or 80s where the heart of most negotiations was decent wages and full employment. Now it's "we'll never concede a pay rate or obscene benefits package, no matter how many union employees we have to sacrifice, especially If it means the total dues goes up. "

 

Also, like most activist groups, when faced with success, they NEVER say our work is done here when they can make a buck with mission creep.

[raz-0 1,259]

I'd argue the states inability to manage money is the reason there bankrupt. How dare people force their employer to pay them a wage they can actually live on.

 

If we cut half the spending in this state on programs that DO NOT WORK, we wouldnt be in this mess. But the politicians want there cut and need the donations to stay.

 

Case and point

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

 

You'd probably have to fire a lot of cwa workers to cut those programs.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

You'd probably have to fire a lot of cwa workers to cut those programs.

So Be it. No point in bankrupting the state when the state gets zero return.