Brand new and looking for some advise

[bilb9494 0]

Hello everyone. First post. I finally got my fingerprins done today and now I guess it's the waiting game to get my fid. what I want to know is, is a 1911 .45 good for a first gun? I rented a 9mm glock a couple weeks ago and fully annoyed it but I want a big more bang and just really love the 1911s. Also I went to BA and the staff was incredibly nice but it was 65 $ for the rental. I really want try a 45 and see how I feel with it. Does anyone know any details about te NRA course for beginners? Does anyone maybe wanna meet up somewhere in ocean county that has experience? I want to know as much as I can regarding operating cleaning and safety before I'm an owner. Anyway. Thanks for the replies and have a good day!

[RubberBullets 65]

Would a 1911 be a good first gun? Perhaps.. That is all up to your own personal taste. I will say that .45 is an expensive caliber to get into for a first gun. Reason being is that as a newbie, you will want to shoot...and shoot ALOT. My advice when you get your ID is to always keep an eye out for internet deals on ammo and buy in bulk when possible. Renting handguns can help you decipher more of your taste, but it does get expensive. I know for a while Shore Shot used to let you switch rental handguns as long as it was in the same caliber. You might want to check them out (yes, rental ammo is expensive)

 

There are a number of supported vendors that offer training classes you can find in the vendor section below in the forums. Check their schedules and im sure you will find one that fits.

 

Safety and basic cleaning information can be acquired all across the internet, but it's always nice to have someone experienced to reinforce what you have learned in person. I would be more than happy to meet up sometime at BA or SS (although my schedule is kinda crazy right now).My selection of guns to try out might be a little limited (226, M&P40, G19) maybe we can get a couple of us together and get a meetup and throw some more variety in the mix. Tuesdays usually works for me

[SW9racer 262]

Get the 1911pistol in 45, and a .22lr conversion slide for it. You now have the larger caliber you want, with the option of inexpensive plinking ammo. With this combo you can get trigger practice with the 22lr and the bang of the 45. You can also shoot steel, obrams, idpa, and uspsa in at least 3 classes.

[Underdog 1,593]

Split the difference and get one in .40 S&W and a 9mm conversion barrel, such as a Glock 23, S&W M&P 40 or 40C, or a SIG 250... Decent bang, little less cost (.40) and a lot less cost with 9mm) and a lot of versatility... I think there were a couple of .40s on sale in the market area if you want a full-size... Consider a used gun, especially for first gun is a good idea... If it is not for you then you don't take an incredible hit.

 

In my opinion, although it isn't the most fun to shoot, the best all-purpose combo out there: Glock 23 w/ 9mm conversion barrel and some G19 magazines, TruGLO TFO sights, Advantage Arms .22LR Conversion Kit, and a Crimson Trace Laser Grip. If you want, you can also get an additional barrel in .357 SIG., and you can use 15-round Glock 22 magazines... All you would need beside that is something in .45 ACP, your 1911, and maybe a dedicated .22LR. Look for a used Glock 23 in perfect condition for about $450. You can go from there.

[NJScott 15]

$65 for a rental???? Man, unless that included a couple of boxes of ammo I think they ripped you a new one.

 

As the others have said, a 1911 in .45 is a matter of personal preference. I have a love/hate relationship with my Taurus 1911, but when it's on, it's a fun shooter. Expensive as hell, because I didn't go for the .22 conversion kit (yet), but a lot of fun at the range. 9mm is an economical way to go, with lots of autoload handgun options out there for every preference. I don't know where you are located in Ocean County, but try and find another range with more agreeable rental rates. You can take a run out to the Heritage Guild in Easton, where, IIRC, the rates are $12 and $15 per hour for handguns and long guns, respectively. You DO have to buy their ammo and you cannot try out different guns in same caliber for the one rate.

 

Again, not knowing your "20", except you're in Ocean County, some of the best courses in the state are offered by Gun for HIre, but they are in Belleville, NJ (with occasional classes in Winslow, NJ). Check out their current offerings at: www.gunforhire.com

 

See if some of the guys on here with club memberships can partner up with you and guest you in. I've not been to a range yet where the other shooters haven't offered to let me put a few rounds downrange with their firearms. Best of luck to you and welcome to the hobby.

 

Scott in Bayonne

 

PS--How did you "annoy" the 9mm you rented? Inquiring minds want to know, LOL

[Underdog 1,593]

An STI Spartan in 9mm might be a nice 1911 to start with if you are set on one...

 

When you apply, get at least a couple extra permits just to be safe.... I'd suggest getting 5.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Get a 4 inch 357 revolver, learn to shoot with 38 special ammo. Simple, reliable, accurate, dependable, and a great gun for home defense if you don't want a shotgun.

[TheWombat 67]

As a fairly new shooter I recommend you attend an NRA Basic Pistol class. Plenty of organizations handle this - I personally like Gun For Hire however others out there as well. They'll take you through semi-autos and revolvers, how to disassemble, clean, operate etc. You'll also get a few different firearms to try.

 

I personally wouldn't recommend a 1911 as a first firearm, however that is just my personal view. I believe it's better to start with a Striker Fired (Glock, M&P, Walther PPQ, Springfield XD/XDM) or a DA (Sig/Beretta) as a better starting point.

 

If you are set on .45 instead of 9mm then look at the Glock 21, Glock 21SF, M&P and Springfield XD or XDM. Once again just a personal view, I'd suggest starting on 9mm to begin with - ammunition is cheaper.

 

TheWombat

[SW9racer 262]

In my opinion, 40sw is only worth it if you are going to use it in competition like uspsa in limited-10 and reload your own. The factory bulk is too "snappy" for competition use, and for target use over an hour. Where the 45 bulk round is a pleasant shove, which is nice. Cost I find is within $1 of the 40sw per box. What will you primary use be?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Get a 4 inch 357 revolver, learn to shoot with 38 special ammo. Simple, reliable, accurate, dependable, and a great gun for home defense if you don't want a shotgun.

 

THIS^^^^^^^^! RAY said what had to be said, so I'll just get up on my soapbox!

 

And no offense to anyone here, but the plastic fantastics take tweaking for them to get close to the accuracy of a good ol' 4" revolver. Learning sight alignment DURING ignition is tons easier with a revolver in single-action mode than ANYTHING else you can put in your hands! All of the striker-fired guns have mushy, creepy long trigger travels that confuse the shooter. The whole crapola line about you're not supposed to know when the gun will fire was started by some idiot working for a gun company that manufactures striker-fired guns! Even the darn NRA bought into this BS! As a shooter, it's your job to know when the sear will let the hammer fall or the striker work, and it should NEVER be a surprise! I'm what I consider to be a Generalist or "Shootist" if you will. With over 44 years experience behind guns of every make, model and description. I can teach a person who never fired a bullet to hit the center of a target at combat distance within the first or second cylinder's worth in my .357 revolvers. Meanwhile, back at the Ranch, the plastic fantastic isn't even hitting the target due to the "threat management" mushy trigger pull of 5-8 pounds, sometimes more!

 

Don't get me wrong, there's a place for the semi-autos with strikers, the DA/SA like the M9 & all of her clones, etc. But NOT in the hands of a brand new shooter! A Newbie doesn't understand or comprehend the obstacles of dealing with that mushy trigger and how to overcome it. Some folks are happy if they can hit a 2'x2' frame/piece of steel @ 10 yards. Those that want to be in the X-ring go to single-action guns such as 1911's / 2011's OR a DA revolver in SA mode. And in so doing save a hell of a lot of ammo.......

[GRIZ 3,369]

I'm with Ray and Smokin 50 as far as a revolver goes. 4" 357 best IMO. The OTC power range on ammo is unmatched by any other handgun. There are some that will complain about the long DA pull. These are probably the same guys who are accustomed to using cheat codes when they play video games. Its not that hard to learn to control the trigger on a DA revolver. Best of all you can practice it dry firing both DA and SA without spending a dime on ammo. Master the DA revolver and everything else is easy.

[checko 180]

I learned on a .45. If you don't get intimidated by the "bigger" recoil you'll find it can be more pleasant than many 9mm. I got a colt .45 and its by far the most favorite handgun I've ever shot.

 

 

1911 is easy as hell to clean. Easily upgradable. Dependable. Single action.

That conversion kit is a great idea btw

[bilb9494 0]

@ rubber bullets. I am also off every tuesday. That would be great to meet up sometime. I keep watching videos and reading about cleaning but would like to see te actual thing. My schedule is also a bit hectic, school and work a whole lot. But I just like learning in person. Thank you all for the helpful replies

[pbkid6974 1]

When you get your permit go to the gun store and handle different guns. Personally I love 1911s and don't care for the plastic wonder guns out there. I know they are reliable and fine guns but they just aren't for me. There is a reason J.M. Browning's design has remained virtually unchanged for over 100 years. Just remember when you buy your first one that more will surely follow.

 

Many people will say that they aren't reliable but both of mine have run flawlessly since day one. Keep them clean and lubed and they won't let you down. Even then I've run through 1000 rounds in my colt rail gun without cleaning it and the only failure was because of a bad mag. Don't let people scare you out of a 1911. Buy a quality one and it will long out last you and probably your children

[jamesbod 0]

1911 is not really a beginner's pistol. Who wants to dissemble a 1911 these days when you have Glocks? :-)

Revolvers have long triggers but are easier to load at the range & you can shoot either 38 or 357.

if you insist on 45, look into renting P220 or G21 first

If you don't like 9mm you won't like 22LR neither

[Duppie 73]

1911 is not really a beginner's pistol. Who wants to dissemble a 1911 these days when you have Glocks? :-)

Revolvers have long triggers but are easier to load at the range & you can shoot either 38 or 357.

if you insist on 45, look into renting P220 or G21 first

If you don't like 9mm you won't like 22LR neither

...so ALL revolvers accommodate solely .38 and .357 ammo? and 9mm shoots like or slightly above .22 caliber pistols?

[jamesbod 0]

...so ALL revolvers accommodate solely .38 and .357 ammo? and 9mm shoots like or slightly above .22 caliber pistols?

I didn't say "all", did I?

Hey if the guy wants more punch than a 9mm, you really want to steer hime towards 22LR? Forget the magnum stuff.

I'm just recommending the more popular calibers for cost & availability sake.

[Duppie 73]

I didn't say "all", did I?

Hey if the guy wants more punch than a 9mm, you really want to steer hime towards 22LR? Forget the magnum stuff.

I'm just recommending the more popular calibers for cost & availability sake.

"REVOLVERS have long triggers but are easier to load at the range & you can shoot 38 OR 357" You wrote it so read it back to yourself and put yourself in a new shooters shoes....see why I asked?

[bilb9494 0]

I've been doing some research on revolvers. I've been told by a few that due to simplicity with cleaning, reloading and all around a beginner that's it's a good choice. I've handled a 1911 but have never shot one yet. When I get my permit and ID (whenever that is) can I test fire guns before I buy? Specifically ba? Thanks again everyone for the replies. Also cherry, IAFF. I don't wanna ask where you work at because that seems a bit personal but with a long shot I may know you. I'm a medic in jersey. Not around here. I also work BLS up north. Thanks again all.

[bilb9494 0]

Not cherry, my memory aludes me. Rubber bullets.

[302w 83]

I'm a revolver and 1911 enthusiast, myself.

 

I have seen/read of new shooters buying striker fired XD's/Glocks/M&P's and shooting terribly with them. Also, I have seen a salesperson at RTSP try to explain how the trigger on a Glock works which confused the person getting into shooting more.

 

Thing is, triggers on 1911s/revolvers is simply a short, crisp pull followed by a bang (1911, or revolver with a hammer cocked), or a long, mildly heavy, smooth like butter pull followed by a bang (revolver in double action). It's just my opinion, but I feel that the simpler shooting is more newbie friendly. You have enough to worry about getting your stance right and such.

 

I would also reccomend that you rent a gun first. Some firearms I shoot great with, others I don't. My dad has a S&W 3906 that I hate because of the stupid grip angle and Glock-like trigger. I can't hit a barn with it. First gun I ever fired was a Colt Series '70 1911 in .45ACP.

 

FWIW, I paid $300 for my LEO trade in S&W Model 64 .38spl Revolver. It will easily outlive me.

[Anselmo 87]

I'm a revolver and 1911 enthusiast, myself.

 

I have seen/read of new shooters buying striker fired XD's/Glocks/M&P's and shooting terribly with them. Also, I have seen a salesperson at RTSP try to explain how the trigger on a Glock works which confused the person getting into shooting more.

 

Thing is, triggers on 1911s/revolvers is simply a short, crisp pull followed by a bang (1911, or revolver with a hammer cocked), or a long, mildly heavy, smooth like butter pull followed by a bang (revolver in double action). It's just my opinion, but I feel that the simpler shooting is more newbie friendly. You have enough to worry about getting your stance right and such.

 

I would also reccomend that you rent a gun first. Some firearms I shoot great with, others I don't. My dad has a S&W 3906 that I hate because of the stupid grip angle and Glock-like trigger. I can't hit a barn with it. First gun I ever fired was a Colt Series '70 1911 in .45ACP.

 

FWIW, I paid $300 for my LEO trade in S&W Model 64 .38spl Revolver. It will easily outlive me.

 

I shot a lot of rental handguns and found the striker fired pistols to be the simplest. People that shoot horrible with a Glock/M&P are horrible shooters. It's not the gun.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I shot a lot of rental handguns and found the striker fired pistols to be the simplest. People that shoot horrible with a Glock/M&P are horrible shooters. It's not the gun.

 

I respectfully have to disagree, since sometimes IT IS! But most of the time it's a combination of things. Everything from the "Newbie shakes" or flinching to stance, position of hands on grip, closing their eyes as the shot is about to break, and yes, even the striker-fired out-of-the-box safe-action trigger! Not to admit so is foolish. Especially when I can have someone brand-new to hand guns hit the middle of the bullseye within 1-2 cylinder's worth of .38 Special ammo using the gun @ SA mode.

 

If the mushy trigger of safe-action was such a God-send, then why-oh-why isn't it put on $20,000.00 Trap Shotguns or .577 Nitro African Game Double Rifles in the six figure range? When you hit the five and six figure range, you can pretty much get what ever you want on your gun, so why doesn't Cabela's Gun Library have anything like I just described?

 

In my 44+ years of shooting I can tell you that Newbies who shoot something as simple as a bolt-action .22 rifle YEARN for the same style trigger in a hand gun. This is REASON #1 that Ruger sells so many darn MK-3 Target Pistols. And the resurgence of .22 LR revolvers with 9 and 10 shot capacity. It's the next logical step. I run a League where teen-aged girls with .22 Rugers wipe the floor with adults with safe-action autos. WHY is that?

 

ANY hand gun is a compromise between recoil, magazine capacity, grip angle, grip width, trigger, barrel length, cost of ammo to feed it, ease of take-down/cleaning, etc. A Newbie must overcome ALL of the obstacles mentioned and "compromise" as to which ones are worth worrying about and which ones don't matter. Weighing all of this together is what makes a lot of threads on this forum, since there isn't a PERFECT hand gun for ALL situations.....and the reason that it's best to cross-train on everything out there, so that you comprehend the differences.

 

Dave

Competition Shooter in rifle-pistol-shotgun disciplines

NRA Certified Instructor

[Duppie 73]

I respectfully have to disagree, since sometimes IT IS! But most of the time it's a combination of things. Everything from the "Newbie shakes" or flinching to stance, position of hands on grip, closing their eyes as the shot is about to break, and yes, even the striker-fired out-of-the-box safe-action trigger! Not to admit so is foolish. Especially when I can have someone brand-new to hand guns hit the middle of the bullseye within 1-2 cylinder's worth of .38 Special ammo using the gun @ SA mode.

 

If the mushy trigger of safe-action was such a God-send, then why-oh-why isn't it put on $20,000.00 Trap Shotguns or .577 Nitro African Game Double Rifles in the six figure range? When you hit the five and six figure range, you can pretty much get what ever you want on your gun, so why doesn't Cabela's Gun Library have anything like I just described?

 

In my 44+ years of shooting I can tell you that Newbies who shoot something as simple as a bolt-action .22 rifle YEARN for the same style trigger in a hand gun. This is REASON #1 that Ruger sells so many darn MK-3 Target Pistols. And the resurgence of .22 LR revolvers with 9 and 10 shot capacity. It's the next logical step. I run a League where teen-aged girls with .22 Rugers wipe the floor with adults with safe-action autos. WHY is that?

 

ANY hand gun is a compromise between recoil, magazine capacity, grip angle, grip width, trigger, barrel length, cost of ammo to feed it, ease of take-down/cleaning, etc. A Newbie must overcome ALL of the obstacles mentioned and "compromise" as to which ones are worth worrying about and which ones don't matter. Weighing all of this together is what makes a lot of threads on this forum, since there isn't a PERFECT hand gun for ALL situations.....and the reason that it's best to cross-train on everything out there, so that you comprehend the differences.

 

Dave

Competition Shooter in rifle-pistol-shotgun disciplines

NRA Certified Instructor

I've not thought of it in those terms but it makes so much sense. I am the most inconsistent with my Sig P250 to the point that Phil at SS wondered if my sights were off yet I can produce good,tight groups both with my CZ and even a Taurus 605 with less than perfect channel sights.Now I am not discounting the possibility that I just suck and have a disdain for the Sig but your explanation sheds some light.

[302w 83]

Anselmo, I'd have to disagree.

 

Fact is, most people shoot better with certain types of handguns, perhaps not all of them. Weather it be made in Springfield (S&W) or Austria, people prefer certain handguns because they shoot better with them. Some prefer Sigs, some Glocks, and I prefer revolvers and 1911s.

 

My opinion is that the "safe trigger" is a compromise that was engineered to appease certain lobbies. I personally feel that the 100+ year old safety trigger design on my S&W is a superior design in terms of accuracy and safety as well. Yet again, just my $0.02.

 

I also agree with whomever said it before... There is a reason why target triggers don't handle like a Glock.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I've not thought of it in those terms but it makes so much sense. I am the most inconsistent with my Sig P250 to the point that Phil at SS wondered if my sights were off yet I can produce good,tight groups both with my CZ and even a Taurus 605 with less than perfect channel sights.Now I am not discounting the possibility that I just suck and have a disdain for the Sig but your explanation sheds some light.

 

You're welcome Duppie!

 

I just worked last week with a (girl)friend of mine to get her issues solved. She was doing a bunch of stuff the wrong way, so we worked on everything and her groups with her XD-9 got tighter and tighter until she just plum wore-out. About 1/2 way through the trials and tribulations, I let her try my 586 Combat S&W with 4" tube. It reminded her of shooting her .22 rifle when she was a little girl. She was able to concentrate on making the sear let go just as the sights were properly aligned in the center of the black bull. Just like back when she was 12 with the .22 rifle. Prior to the lesson, everything was grouping low & left out of the black bull. Post-lesson, she had partially conquered the safe-action trigger AND a flinch. I gave her instructions to practice with an empty gun in a mirror and watch for the flinch as she was developing the muscle memory to squeeze instead of pull her trigger. Next week we'll do it again. Maybe you'd like to join us?

 

Dave

[Duppie 73]

You're welcome Duppie!

 

I just worked last week with a (girl)friend of mine to get her issues solved. She was doing a bunch of stuff the wrong way, so we worked on everything and her groups with her XD-9 got tighter and tighter until she just plum wore-out. About 1/2 way through the trials and tribulations, I let her try my 586 Combat S&W with 4" tube. It reminded her of shooting her .22 rifle when she was a little girl. She was able to concentrate on making the sear let go just as the sights were properly aligned in the center of the black bull. Just like back when she was 12 with the .22 rifle. Prior to the lesson, everything was grouping low & left out of the black bull. Post-lesson, she had partially conquered the safe-action trigger AND a flinch. I gave her instructions to practice with an empty gun in a mirror and watch for the flinch as she was developing the muscle memory to squeeze instead of pull her trigger. Next week we'll do it again. Maybe you'd like to join us?

 

Dave

Don't mind if I do. I'll PM you.

[pbkid6974 1]

1911 is not really a beginner's pistol. Who wants to dissemble a 1911 these days when you have Glocks? :-)

Revolvers have long triggers but are easier to load at the range & you can shoot either 38 or 357.

if you insist on 45, look into renting P220 or G21 first

If you don't like 9mm you won't like 22LR neither

 

Why do you feel a 1911 is not a beginners pistol? Its simple safe and it is actually very easy to disassemble and clean. And people who take pride in their possessions should take care of them. I guess that's why glock owners don't take care of their stuff, I would be embarrassed to be seen with one personally.

 

Then you mention the long trigger pull of a revolver... Every glock I've ever handled had a far worse trigger than 90% of the revolvers I've used. How about you educate yourself on different firearms and stop being a fanboy before you make suggestions and accusations.

 

Now personally, I do not like the striker-fired guns. Heres why, Trigger is to heavy for my taste. most of them lack a manual safety which I'm not comfortable with. Some people are, and that's fine to. Bulky grips that you can't change or personalize. They are all way to boxy and not pleasant to look at. But that is all personal preference. So to each his own. Don't rip on something you don't have experience with. It makes you seem stupid, ignorant and childish.

[Anselmo 87]

Why do you feel a 1911 is not a beginners pistol? Its simple safe and it is actually very easy to disassemble and clean. And people who take pride in their possessions should take care of them. I guess that's why glock owners don't take care of their stuff, I would be embarrassed to be seen with one personally.

 

Then you mention the long trigger pull of a revolver... Every glock I've ever handled had a far worse trigger than 90% of the revolvers I've used. How about you educate yourself on different firearms and stop being a fanboy before you make suggestions and accusations.

 

Now personally, I do not like the striker-fired guns. Heres why, Trigger is to heavy for my taste. most of them lack a manual safety which I'm not comfortable with. Some people are, and that's fine to. Bulky grips that you can't change or personalize. They are all way to boxy and not pleasant to look at. But that is all personal preference. So to each his own. Don't rip on something you don't have experience with. It makes you seem stupid, ignorant and childish.

 

Who's the fanboy? Why are people so defensive about Glocks vs 1911. I've shot them all from the rental case at the range. I prefer striker fired plastic. I'm not saying it's better or more accurate or whatever else people are trying to debate on here. It is just what I prefer from my limited experience.

 

Maybe our definitions of "horrible shooter" differ. I just can't get on board that someone is a good shooter with a revolver or 1911 and you hand them a Glock and they turn into a horrible shooter.

[302w 83]

I just can't get on board that someone is a good shooter with a revolver or 1911 and you hand them a Glock and they turn into a horrible shooter.

 

Horrible shooter? Not really, but some people shoot terribly with certain guns. Terribly is a vague word, I know, but some people prefer some handguns over others. Like I said, I'm a decent shot with a fair number of guns but I abseloutely hate my dads 3906.

 

A decent analogy I can think of would be North American cars compared to those for the European (or at least UK) market in right hand drive. They drive the same, but feel different. I am sure I can jump into a Focus in Britain and drive it, but I am going to drive like crap until I am used to it.