School shooting in CT

[pbkid6974 1]

There is a special place in hell for people who kill innocent children. this guy is definitely there.

 

Also I've read that the shooter was 20 years old? If that is true, then he must have gotten the hand guns illegally. They were found in the school, while the ar/m4 was found in his trunk.

[ruger9 0]

And right on cue, Mayor Doucheberg dances in the blood: http://www.businessi...control-2012-12

 

It's coming people. Mark my words. The anti-gunners will have momentum on this one.

[Fawkesguy 57]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that this is not the incident to get into a gun rights shouting match over, but I don't think you have to sit there and act as if you agree that gun control is the answer to this. My position with anyone that I end up talking about this with would be that, 'It's absolutely awful that this happened, but I never have and never will believe that madmen who choose to do violence will simply give up on the idea if they can't get a firearm. Even if you accept the highly unlikely idea that guns in dangerous hands can be effectively confiscated just because some new laws are passed, people like this are just going to start using home made bombs, molotov cocktails, swords, or even just a car. Trying to make it harder for them to get guns isn't going to suddenly turn them into decent people.'

 

+1

 

A friend posted on FB that we need more gun control. My response:

 

"I understand your reaction. However, I don't think any amount of "gun control" can change the behavior of crazy people hellbent on hurting others. You can't legislate away insanity and evil. There are tens of millions of people in the U.S. that own firearms. They come from all walks of life and 99.99% of them live their lives without ever hurting a soul. Evil people are evil and criminals are criminals regardless of which inanimate objects they use to harm or kill others. Timothy McVeigh managed to kill 168 people (including 19 children) using a truck, fertilizer, and gasoline. But again, I understand that people just "want something done" because it's all so senseless and truly scary."

[Ten Tenth's 0]

I also read that there are 2 million instances where a law abiding citizen holding a legally procured gun deterred crime.

[Combat Auto 174]

This is so sad - it is heart breaking...What a coward of a scumbag to go after kids....

 

This may be the straw that really helps the ani-gun nutz....I'd like to see the NRA get ahead of this - cause the storm is comming...Somthing needs to be done, we can not allow our kids to be slaughtered in school...Best if NRA helps define solutions before the anti-gun nutz do...As a long-term solution, how about something like a chip in every gun, which sends am alarm to police if a nut-job goes near a school? Lets apply some technology so we can help to keep kids safe - but at the same time maintain our freedoms. We need to think out of the box.

[ruger9 0]

I also read that there are 2 million instances where a law abiding citizen holding a legally procured gun deterred crime.

 

I'm not sure the actual numbers are, but yes- that's correct. It was in a very famous and relatively recent FBI Crime Report. The one John Lott referenced for his book "more guns less crime."

[NicePants 58]

This is so sad - it is heart breaking...What a coward of a scumbag to go after kids....

 

This may be the straw that really helps the ani-gun nutz....I'd like to see the NRA get ahead of this - cause the storm is comming...Somthing needs to be done, we can not allow our kids to be slaughtered in school...Best if NRA helps define solutions before the anti-gun nutz do...As a long-term solution, how about something like a chip in every gun, which sends am alarm to police if a nut-job goes near a school? Lets apply some technology so we can help to keep kids safe - but at the same time maintain our freedoms. We need to think out of the box.

 

Contrary to popular belief, people who enjoy firearms sometimes happen to live very close to schools. What are they going to do, make an area within 1000 ft. of a school into a gun-free zone?

[MarkWVU02 47]

+1

 

A friend posted on FB that we need more gun control. My response:

 

"I understand your reaction. However, I don't think any amount of "gun control" can change the behavior of crazy people hellbent on hurting others. You can't legislate away insanity and evil. There are tens of millions of people in the U.S. that own firearms. They come from all walks of life and 99.99% of them live their lives without ever hurting a soul. Evil people are evil and criminals are criminals regardless of which inanimate objects they use to harm or kill others. Timothy McVeigh managed to kill 168 people (including 19 children) using a truck, fertilizer, and gasoline. But again, I understand that people just "want something done" because it's all so senseless and truly scary."

 

Great post but it will most likely fall on deaf ears with the anti-gun crowd. My newsfeed is inundated with anti-gun rants and quite honestly I'm sick of arguing with people. Usually I'm not the type to say this but we may be screwed after this.

[ruger9 0]

This is the kind of person we are dealing with, people- he's someone on my local town bulletin board.

 

The ignorance is astounding.

 

 

"The point is laws can have an effect. I never said I wanted guns outlawed. As a matter of fact if someone breaks into my house, I will be more than happy to shoot them in the head. But I don't need a locker full of automatic weapons, with military grade ammo to protect myself. It might me hard to get a gun in NJ, but that is not the case in the rest of the country. If you don't think the legal ease of getting these weapons, which then end up in the hands of criminals, and lunatics, is a big part of the problem, you are delusional."

 

It's people like this who will wholeheartedly support gun control legislation, even ASK for it, and vote into office those people who promise it. This is what we're up against. Willful ignorance.

 

I asked him to define "military grade ammo" for me, told him if he knew anyone with a "locker full of automatic weapons" to call the police immediately, and explained how the gun purchasing process works in NJ- long guns easy, handguns wait. This guy obviously isn't a gun owner, based on his knowledge of NJ law, despite his "I'll shoot them in the head" comment. lol

[Fawkesguy 57]

 

Great post but it will most likely fall on deaf ears with the anti-gun crowd. My newsfeed is inundated with anti-gun rants and quite honestly I'm sick of arguing with people. Usually I'm not the type to say this but we may be screwed after this.

 

I hear ya. I just made that one post. Arguing with antis is just pissing up a flagpole, but several other people were right there with me in the comments.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Zell959 40]

I wasn't a firearm owner back in the days of Columbine. Any of the old salts want to share the gist of what gun owners generally faced as the fallout for that? This would seem comparable.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Any updated statistics regarding gun use for self defense or as determent of crime? All I'm finding is 10+ years old. I'd like some statistics that show the good side of guns

[ruger9 0]

I am *VERY* interested in what you think is coming.........?

 

Did you not read the link to Bloomberg above? There WILL be a call to strengthen gun control laws, probably on a federal level. If Clinton got the AWB passed, what makes you think Obama and the dem Senate won't be able to get something passed?

[mcbethr 42]

This is so sad - it is heart breaking...What a coward of a scumbag to go after kids....

 

This may be the straw that really helps the ani-gun nutz....I'd like to see the NRA get ahead of this - cause the storm is comming...Somthing needs to be done, we can not allow our kids to be slaughtered in school...Best if NRA helps define solutions before the anti-gun nutz do...As a long-term solution, how about something like a chip in every gun, which sends am alarm to police if a nut-job goes near a school? Lets apply some technology so we can help to keep kids safe - but at the same time maintain our freedoms. We need to think out of the box.

 

NJ is way, way ahead of you, my friend... NJ has has a smart gun law for quite a while now. Only deal is the law is supposed to kick in once a smart gun is realistically viable.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/04/smart_gun_still_hasnt_hit_the.html

[Zell959 40]

Did you not read the link to Bloomberg above? There WILL be a call to strengthen gun control laws, probably on a federal level. If Clinton got the AWB passed, what makes you think Obama and the dem Senate won't be able to get something passed?

 

Only thing I'd say is that they do have mid-term elections to thing about and, as I recall from what I've read of it, the 1994 AWB proved extremely costly for many of it's supporters in congress.

[Ten Tenth's 0]

Be careful with this quote "more guns less crime", Florida has a really bad crime rate. As the facts roll out on Lanza we will hopefully prove he was mentally unstable and under the legal age to possess a handgun. We have laws in place to prevent such unlawful possession.

[A-Tech 8]

This is so sad - it is heart breaking...What a coward of a scumbag to go after kids....

 

This may be the straw that really helps the ani-gun nutz....I'd like to see the NRA get ahead of this - cause the storm is comming...Somthing needs to be done, we can not allow our kids to be slaughtered in school...Best if NRA helps define solutions before the anti-gun nutz do...As a long-term solution, how about something like a chip in every gun, which sends am alarm to police if a nut-job goes near a school? Lets apply some technology so we can help to keep kids safe - but at the same time maintain our freedoms. We need to think out of the box.

 

A chip in every gun that does what? Does a mental health assessment and notifies the police that the person holding the gun doesn't qualify? Sounds familiar.....if I want my guns tracked, I would approve of the U.N. getting involved with our gun control. A chip in every gun has got to be the absolute worst idea I've ever heard. I seriously hope this was meant to be some sort of levity.

[45Doll 5,887]

How could this happen in a Gun Free School Zone?

 

But not to worry. Our President has spoken with a tear in his eye and declared we'll have to do something (more), after we put politics aside.

[JimmyAGR 54]

+1

 

A friend posted on FB that we need more gun control. My response:

 

"I understand your reaction. However, I don't think any amount of "gun control" can change the behavior of crazy people hellbent on hurting others. You can't legislate away insanity and evil. There are tens of millions of people in the U.S. that own firearms. They come from all walks of life and 99.99% of them live their lives without ever hurting a soul. Evil people are evil and criminals are criminals regardless of which inanimate objects they use to harm or kill others. Timothy McVeigh managed to kill 168 people (including 19 children) using a truck, fertilizer, and gasoline. But again, I understand that people just "want something done" because it's all so senseless and truly scary."

 

That is a great response. +1

[raz-0 1,259]

Pretty much this^^^^^

 

However, I like this other post from another site...got me thinking a bit:

 

"Ya know . . . Years back there were sincere people who tried to find the true root of this public mass murder problem of modern times. For the most part, the shooters have been young males who are described these killers as sociopath zombie-like characters.

 

Starting back in the 1970s, the widespread use of prescription drugs to control "problematic" behavior in children really got underway. It seemed that liberal elitists as part of their utopian world dream concepts worked hard to prevent boys from being boys. It might be that in their effort to create the ideal little metro-sexual beta-male using behavior altering drugs, that monsters were hatched".

 

As a counter, there is also a movement in the world of psychiatry that psychopathy (sociopathy isn't really a current term and clinically is the same as psychopathy) is under-diagnosed, especially in children. That it is a spectrum disorder, and that the field of mental health, having not focused on this, has only really bothered with diagnosis in patients who have already acted out severely or are otherwise severely noticeably impaired. Part of the dust up in the current examination of this issue is that the go to tool for diagnosis has been a clinical inventory, and the younger the kid, the higher they score on the inventory because they have not yet been socialized and had the brian development for certian critical portions of said socialization. Which loops back to the issue in that most people go form scoring high on the psychopathy scale to low on it because of what amounts to training and/or therapy (i.e. parenting and socialization), and that by developing tools to spot categorizable youth, you can then potentially intervene in cases where "training" is deficient for the individual.

 

 

As for points on arguing the issue.

 

1) about 50% of incidents end with the shooter dead before police are on scene. That means they get to shoot as many people as they want. The average is 14.3 people.

2) the average deaths with intervention on scene by private individuals is 2.3. 2.6 if they are unarmed, 1.7 if they are armed. (http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/ for full discussion of methodology).

3) There are things like the happy land murders. One pissed off boyfriend, one can of gasoline, and a match, 87 dead. Far more than any mass shooting event. If you go an look back at mass homicides, they exist, the farther back you go when guns were more expensive and less functional, the more they involved arson and explosives.

4) it is still incredibly rare, there are just a LOT of people, and more every day, and only 365 days in a year still. The 24-7 news cycle condenses the news of 7 billion people.

5) BY the most conservative statistics, there are about 80,000 defensive uses of fire arms per year (FBI stats), lets say you do ban guns, and it would have saved 20 kids, are 20 kids worth 80,000 other lives?

6) You are seeing more people run amok in countries with strict gun control or outright bans. In nearly every instance, which there are a mess of, the demographic of the victims skews very young because knife attacks against a multiple physical equals are not likely to go well. So you get your ban, but the net result is to still do nothing about people messed up in the head who lash out violently against less well armed opponents by surprize, and if experience to date is representative, you simply focus the risk form them on those 10 and under.

7) this guy went after his parents. HE was stuck living at home with them at 24. Perhaps the real issue is the current state of the economy and the increasing gap in wealth that means someone like this either has to stick with a pathological parental relationship very long term, or leave and face a life of poverty and debt.

 

You can ban all you want. It's not really proposing a solution, it's just shuffling the problem around.

[ruger9 0]

 

Again what do *you* think is going to happen?

 

I already said- a very public push for more gun control laws. Doesn't matter what they are. The stone has already been chipped away enough. We don't need it eroded any more. And- there's a good chance of it passing, do to the emotions of CT, the 3 incidences in the last 5 months, and the dem-controlled presidency and senate.

 

 

But since you want to "push", let's speculate: a re-instatement of the AWB, with new weapons added? FEDERAL law. 10-round FEDERAL mag limit. And they don't have to grandfather this stuff in- NJ didn't. My point is, buckle up, because a fight is coming. And you'l be fighting at least 2/3 of the federal govt, and 9/10 of mass media. Not to mention the civilians who agree with them. We will be in the minority. Not a good position to fight from.

[skimdan 0]

A chip in every gun that does what? Does a mental health assessment and notifies the police that the person holding the gun doesn't qualify? Sounds familiar.....if I want my guns tracked, I would approve of the U.N. getting involved with our gun control. A chip in every gun has got to be the absolute worst idea I've ever heard. I seriously hope this was meant to be some sort of levity.

 

+1. I understand that the OP is trying to convey technology should be able to prevent this kind of thing from happening, but bottom line (which has already been pointed out) is bad people will ALWAYS find a way to do bad things.

[ruger9 0]

+1. I understand that the OP is trying to convey technology should be able to prevent this kind of thing from happening, but bottom line (which has already been pointed out) is bad people will ALWAYS find a way to do bad things.

 

Timothy McVeigh did. The 9-11 hijackers did. The mother who drown her own children in the bath tub did. The list goes on & on...

[raz-0 1,259]

no need to be testy....

 

I read it...as I have read many a link and thread etc...all I am asking is what YOU think is coming?

 

So you *THINK* a new AWB is coming....ok it comes....now what....?

 

Do you think it is going to be any worse off in this Godforesaken state we live in.....if it gets passed?

 

Again what do *you* think is going to happen?

 

I think not much will happen, honestly. We have a deadlocked congress, and we have highly polarized parties that are looking at popular vote margins significantly smaller than the number of gun owners out there. Our biggest threat is a GOP who feels it is a lame duck, doesn't want to change to stop alienating the middle, and puts up no opposition in the hopes the dems do pass something so they can say vote GOP, look what they did. The question is will the dems risk a very attractive electoral college position to fight the fight at the federal level, or just make noise at the state level.

 

If something IS going to happen, I think it will be tied up in the acquisition of the firearms.

 

Proposing an AWB won't really work if the gun in quesiton was a NJ compliant semi-auto.

 

Proposing a semi auto ban won't work wihtout chanign the composition of SCOTUS, because semi-autos are in common use.

 

You can attack CCW laws, but what's the connection if the shooter didn't ahve a CCW or conceal his weapons?

 

What I can see as a possibility are a number of things.

 

In general, under the guise of the current system doesn't do enough to detect psychos.

 

NICS v2 perhaps with a much higher probability of being delayed to be safe, or even denied due to lack of data, and probably including much more data to enable a delay or denial. All that coupled with much more mandatory and consistent reporting of component data from the state level, possibly with federal funding for the collection of said data, and no option to bypass or intercept NICS. Also possibly putting a hold on you and rolling BATFE units for a knock and question if you hit certain purchasing flags.

 

Mandating serialization of more portions of the firearm, and requiring them to be FFL transferred. Like barrels and magazines. I don't know that you would even need legislation to do this. COmbine it with the above, and you could flag and roll out units to ask questions politely to see if you are a psycho because you bought too many magazines too close together.

 

Much like many opther things, threaten to withold funds from states that do not mandate training to purchase a firearm. Require a certification of the training, and require a trainer signoff for the individual to make it past the nics check. Make certification for training require that the instructor be informed they are not to certify anyone who seems off.

 

 

All the above have the advantage of combining public outrage at the moment with throwing free money at various groups and individuals.

 

In the case of a face to face transfer:

 

The federal government deciding to fight the fight that a face to face transfer is interstate commerce because without safeguards to ensure the purchaser is clean on NICS, it could be a fraudulent purchase or a straw purchase that will cross state lines. They could try to prohibit it completely, or simply open up NICS to private sales, and make it a federal offense if a weapon is traced back to you as the owner, and you don't have a NICS verified transfer on record, or have record of a case number for the report of a stolen firearm. Maybe something like 5-10 years in jail with hte usual federal mandatory minimum of 85% of the sentence. The latter scenario, I don't see groups like the NRA weighing in heavily enough to do more than shape the legislation a bit.

 

All of the above of course will not do anything consistently or reliably, but will look like you are doing something and will inconvenience gun owners, thus theoretically discouraging the act of gun ownership.

[Ten Tenth's 0]

http://www.dailymail...cut-school.htmlOk US media fumbles the facts but this UK report seems most cohesive. Ryan Lanza is the 24 year old brother and he was at work in NJ today. He told police his brother Adam, 20, is mentally disabled. Also article said shooter had a bullet proof vest on.

[bulpup 98]

Crazy dupe

[bulpup 98]

 

 

 

If something IS going to happen, I think it will be tied up in the acquisition of the firearms.

 

Proposing an AWB won't really work if the gun in quesiton was a NJ compliant semi-auto.

 

Proposing a semi auto ban won't work wihtout chanign the composition of SCOTUS, because semi-autos are in common use.

 

You can attack CCW laws, but what's the connection if the shooter didn't ahve a CCW or conceal his weapons?

 

What I can see as a possibility are a number of things.

 

In general, under the guise of the current system doesn't do enough to detect psychos.

 

. .

 

You hit the nail on the head here as far as i am concerned.

 

Start finding the psychos better. It used to be people were put away. Now that is next to impossible.

 

I have been telling everyone at work "when you get the homicidal psycho problem fixed we can talk about me and my guns. Until then I am just fine."

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tony357 386]

channel 4 on the tv i am not watching it but can hear it at my computer, they are going to virtually commercial free tv, nice shoot up a school and receive commercial free tv.. idiots..

[DavidV433 0]

latest im hearing is, shooter is adam lanza 20, the guns were owned by the mother which i think from the report was killed in the mothers house. not in the school.

 

bushmaster .223 was found in the back of the car behind the school, probably wasnt used. sig sauer handgun and a glock was found with the shooter.

 

as a father of two kids withing the age range of these kids that lost their lives today my heart goes out to the families.

[ITman 2]

Fox reported that the weapons, a glock, a sig, and a rifle all belonged legally to the shooter's mother.