School shooting in CT

[JrzyGuy30 0]

Wow the video game argument. Please...I know a ton of people who play video games, and violent ones, who are well adjusted members of society. This comes down to 2 things. The untreated mental disorder of the perp and the fact that his mother allowed him access to her firearms. This is her fault. He couldn't get a gun at Dicks days prior because he would have failed the background check. Had he not been able to access his moms guns then we wouldn't be discussing this. Moms fault

 

Exactly.

[NJScott 15]

To anyone who is already fed-up with the demonizing of gun owners and the exploitation of this tragedy by anti's, do NOT pick up today's NY Daily News. There is absolutely NO balance to the "reporting" in there today. Its usual anti-gun stridency has been multiplied tenfold, with feature articles and a couple of op-eds calling for something to be done about guns in this country, whatever that means. But they are too intellectually-dishonest just to come out and demand a total BAN on guns, which is what these mealy-mouths really want.

 

I emailed Lupica on several occasions over the last couple of years on his inaccurate and inflammatory articles, but--of course--never received a reply. I won't be bothering this time around. This is a watershed moment for the firearms community in this country, and with the anti's having pretty much the whole (media) playing field to themselves, not a particular promising one at that.

[pbkid6974 1]

there was another thread about the mall shooting and how that was stopped by a ccw holder that never even fired. 2 incidents just days apart with very different outcomes. they are both similar in respects to weapons used and they both had target rich environments. the difference is a law-abiding gun owner exercising his right. guns dont stop crimes? tell that to nick meli and see what he has to say about it.

 

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/12/ccw-holder-confronted-clackamas-mall-shooter-2515072.html

 

this is more relevant now that we learn the shooter offed himself when he thought the cops were closing in on him. these nutjobs don't want to be confronted.

[ruger9 0]

there was another thread about the mall shooting and how that was stopped by a ccw holder that never even fired. 2 incidents just days apart with very different outcomes. they are both similar in respects to weapons used and they both had target rich environments. the difference is a law-abiding gun owner exercising his right. guns dont stop crimes? tell that to nick meli and see what he has to say about it.

 

http://beforeitsnews...er-2515072.html

 

this is more relevant now that we learn the shooter offed himself when he thought the cops were closing in on him. these nutjobs don't want to be confronted.

 

WOW. Too bad it'll fall on deaf ears and get completely ignored by main stream media.

[BleedingOrange36 0]

Why not employ all of these Vets coming back from oversea's? After a thorough mental eval, and some specialized training. They could be put in place similar to an air Marshall, school Marshall. They would be in plain clothes, concealed carry, possibly a badge as a visual deterrent. Something to think about.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I think a school Marshall would be a great idea employing retired LEO/military

[Zeke 5,504]

I think a school Marshall would be a great idea employing retired LEO/military

+1

[Combat Auto 174]

+2 on school marshells - please make sure they carry arma pearcing rifle rounds...May nee at least 2 per school...Lot'a jobs.

[BleedingOrange36 0]

I really believe it to be one of the best ideas I can come up with. Add a level of security that would allow people to feel safer after this incident. Employ a growing number of unemployed veterans. Top priority- keep our children and teachers safe! The concealed carry wouldn't heighten fear for young children. But I also feel having someone on staff could help educate children on lawful gun ownership, and the positives behind it.

[TheSmokingGun 0]

They just said on the news that he took his life after hearing that the police were on scene and closing in. Once again, an active shooter knows he's about to be confronted my armed individuals and kills himself rather than get into a fight.

 

 

Or because he's a 20 year old kid that knows he stands no chance of survival in prison.

 

He isn't scared of police or CCW "heroes" killing him. If he wanted to turn himself in, he could drop his weapons, put his hands on his head and walk outside. They're not looking for a resolution. They have decided they are going to die anyway and take as many people with them as he can.

[bulpup 98]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^. SPOT FLIPPING ON. .^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Nothing more really needs to be said after this now does it?

 

This plus this, if you haven't seen it yet.

 

http://anarchistsocc...nthinkable.html

 

 

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

 

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

 

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

 

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

 

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

 

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

 

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

 

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

 

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

 

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

 

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”

 

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

 

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

 

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

 

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

 

 

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

 

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

[XDJohnTact 49]

I really believe it to be one of the best ideas I can come up with. Add a level of security that would allow people to feel safer after this incident. Employ a growing number of unemployed veterans. Top priority- keep our children and teachers safe! The concealed carry wouldn't heighten fear for young children. But I also feel having someone on staff could help educate children on lawful gun ownership, and the positives behind it.

 

+3, good idea! We had a "school resource officer" at the school I taught at, the kids called him "policeman Matt" and he was a great asset to the school. He was in uniform and armed. Right after he was hired, some people complained that he was carrying. The chief came in and said he was an on duty police officer and the gun had to stay. That was the end of the conversation.

[ruger9 0]

"School Marshalls" - retired LEOs and military, protecting America's kids. Brilliant. A PR campaign waiting to happen!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

If this kid had Asperger's syndrome, then the school may very well have seen violence from this kid while he attended there. I cant speak with a certainty, but i do work with kids that have Asperger's. I work in a behavior program, and non of this comes as a surprise to me. Our focus should be primarily on the mental health system, these kids only get help when the parents demand it in schools, and then after high school there is very little if any help for these people. Were talking about people with a severe social disorder, and it's not like they only have a hard time dealing with social behaviors, they have many other issues including violent behavior and the inability to deal with hardships in a logical way. I have had chairs thrown at me over something as silly as getting a problem wrong on test when i asked the student to erase it and try again, they have lied to try and get me fired, and on countless occasions talked about killing people because they performed better or won a game and they lost. There NEEDS to be a focus on this issue, because this seemingly disabled person was able to do way to much damage knowing full well of his behavior issues. Our program is designed to keep these kids on track in school, and modify there behavior, but the fact is there is only so much we can do with a student that has a mental disorder, we cant change that, we can only try and help the student cope with it.

[PM2116 0]

Hey, This is my first post on a topic, so I definitely don't want to offend anyone. This is JUST MY OPINION.

 

First, I was raised in Christian home. What this home taught me was to respect your parents, respect the law's of the land (even when you don't agree), & treat others as you would want to be treated. I did make mistakes, I sinned, and I didn't always do the right thing. But, those classic foundations have always stuck with me. Watching my Father treat my Mother with love and respect shaped me into a man that takes care of my wife, never puts her down, and would do anything to make sure she is taken care of. When it comes to others, I have a high level of respect for all opinions & differences. I respect authority. If I break the law, I KNOW there are consequences.

 

Now, My brother & his fiance are teachers. My Wife is an Occupational Therapist who graduated from Columbia University where she experienced 6 months of field work with a mental health institution. Listening to the three of them talk back and forth last night was horrifying. My Brother's fiance was just attacked by one of her students on Thursday, and the school system is only suspending her for one day. That's it? Really? My Wife was telling me how some of these children with serious mental health issues are there because of abusive or neglectful parents. Not only do they not get the help they need, but those abusive parents still have a say in what kind of treatment their children receive. How did we become so backwards?

 

Everyone can keep arguing in circles whether it concerns religion, access to firearms, etc. But one fact remains. This country has moved in a direction of immorality, political correctness, & lack of accountability. Children are being taught that you can get away with just about anything. I don't agree that it's always the parents fault. I've seen kids from good families acting out & breaking the rules because they know that there won't be any repercussions.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I stand firm that this country has shaped it's own evils. We've created this monster. Hope I didn't offend anyone

[PDM 91]

If this kid had known mental issues then the mother was an idiot for owning guns and she bears some of the responsibility (and she obviously paid a horrible price for her poor judgment). Just because one has the right to own a gun, doesn't mean one should own a gun. The presence of a mentally ill person, of any age, in the home, is reason enough to say "I'm not going to own a gun." There is no way to secure a firearm adqueately with a person living in the home who has a diagosed mental illness. With rights come responsibilities. If certain classes of people can be barred from owning a gun -- convicted felons and those who have a record of being committed to a mental facility -- I think we can add people who have a mentally ill person living at home (to include diagonsed bipolar disorder, serious depression schizophrenia, paranoia, and other similar serious conditions to the list of people inelligible to own firearms.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

PM2116

 

Typically the kids aren't suspended for a pretty good reason... At school these kids have a structured environment. At home there is usually none. We want to keep them in these programs on a day to day basis. Every Monday is hard because they have 2 days off, when we got back to school after the week off from sandy it was a nightmare. You send these kids home for doing something bad, they may do it again just so they can go home. These kids aren't logical, so you have to be careful how you shape their behavior, they will learn quickly how to get what they want through manipulation. it is very hard to teach these kids consequences since most of their "bad" behavior stems from the heat of the moment. Sending them home is actually counterproductive, when you can set up many different ways to deal with it in school, like the loss of privileges, or having them complete projects which deal with the issue. Sending them home to play video games hang out and watch TV is not the answer. We have elongated school years to keep these kids in school for all but one month out of the year.

[BleedingOrange36 0]

Hey, This is my first post on a topic, so I definitely don't want to offend anyone. This is JUST MY OPINION.

 

First, I was raised in Christian home. What this home taught me was to respect your parents, respect the law's of the land (even when you don't agree), & treat others as you would want to be treated. I did make mistakes, I sinned, and I didn't always do the right thing. But, those classic foundations have always stuck with me. Watching my Father treat my Mother with love and respect shaped me into a man that takes care of my wife, never puts her down, and would do anything to make sure she is taken care of. When it comes to others, I have a high level of respect for all opinions & differences. I respect authority. If I break the law, I KNOW there are consequences.

 

Now, My brother & his fiance are teachers. My Wife is an Occupational Therapist who graduated from Columbia University where she experienced 6 months of field work with a mental health institution. Listening to the three of them talk back and forth last night was horrifying. My Brother's fiance was just attacked by one of her students on Thursday, and the school system is only suspending her for one day. That's it? Really? My Wife was telling me how some of these children with serious mental health issues are there because of abusive or neglectful parents. Not only do they not get the help they need, but those abusive parents still have a say in what kind of treatment their children receive. How did we become so backwards?

 

Everyone can keep arguing in circles whether it concerns religion, access to firearms, etc. But one fact remains. This country has moved in a direction of immorality, political correctness, & lack of accountability. Children are being taught that you can get away with just about anything. I don't agree that it's always the parents fault. I've seen kids from good families acting out & breaking the rules because they know that there won't be any repercussions.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I stand firm that this country has shaped it's own evils. We've created this monster. Hope I didn't offend anyone

No offense taken. Your spot on.

[PM2116 0]

Well, I don't want this to go off topic just because of one example, but the girl used instagram to superimpose my brothers fiances head onto a porn picture. Now the picture is circulating and the girl only received one in school suspension day. Her Mother has been very cooperative since day one, because this girl has been trouble. The reason I didn't see this happening when I was in high school was because everyone was afraid of getting kicked out of school. Now, it's a slap on the wrist. Same goes for just about everything in this country.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

How is suspending someone with a mental disorder going to solve the issue? If you really think that is the issue, then please tell me how they will learn from being sent home? You talk like these people will learn from it or something.... Suspending kids to me is more of a brush off then anything. Step back for a second, understand that your talking about someone who is mentally ill, maybe do some research on what issue's these kids deal with. it will become quickly apparent to you that traditional means of punishment do not work.

 

 

Personally, this is possibly to most ON-topic discussion that has come in here... how we deal with our mentally disabled..

[PM2116 0]

You're combining two separate incidents. One from my brothers fiance, and one from my wife. The girl does not have a mental disorder. The two example were used to explain why I feel that the many in this country do not fear they will be held accountable for their actions.

[PM2116 0]

First, don't make the mistake of assuming that I don't have knowledge of the subject.

 

Second, All issues have to be handled differently. If we're referring to your average healthy youth, I feel that there is a lack of discipline and a lack of accountability. The methods used by the current school systems have more than proven that they simply are not working. This also falls on the parents actions.

 

Concerning the mental health issues, I believe there is a lack of proper care. There aren't enough funds to back these institutions. This falls with our government and not necessarily the mentally ill child.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

You're combining two separate incidents. One from my brothers fiance, and one from my wife. The girl does not have a mental disorder. The two example were used to explain why I feel that the many in this country do not fear they will be held accountable for their actions.

 

Ok. I'm not going to disagree with the slap on the wrist comment then. But, through personal experience, i can say that the kids i work with could care less about the consequences when in the heat of the moment. When their switch gets flipped nothing matters but what they want to do.... after the fact they can figure out what they did was wrong, but that doesn't change what they just did. So we have a heavy focus on a reward system and loss of privilage, but we cant rewire their brain, it's very difficult knowing these kids will have to live with this for life. You have to keep them in a structured consistent environment.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

First, don't make the mistake of assuming that I don't have knowledge of the subject.

 

Second, All issues have to be handled differently. If we're referring to your average healthy youth, I feel that there is a lack of discipline and a lack of accountability. The methods used by the current school systems have more than proven that they simply are not working. This also falls on the parents actions.

 

Concerning the mental health issues, I believe there is a lack of proper care. There aren't enough funds to back these institutions. This falls with our government and not necessarily the mentally ill child.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.

 

I wasn't necessarily referring to you being knowledgeable on the issue, but everyone. And i did get a bit consfused with your 2 examples, i apologize for that.

 

And you are spot on with the rest, proper car is def. lacking, barely any funds considering we have kids from many districts piled into one, lack of aids for kids who really need it(districts can't afford it, even hiring a high school grad at 20k a year), lack of parents to do anything(denial there kid is normal).

 

For those that dont know. YOU CANNOT classify a student with out the parents consent.

[tblant 6]

If his mother had had the firearms in a safe it might have delayed the killer for maybe a couple of hours (torturing his mother until she disclosed the combination or killing her outright and then carbide wheel cutting/oxy-acetylene torch cutting into the safe).

 

Safes are good for securing firearms against young children and those who don't want to spend much time in the house (burglars), but I have doubts that having the firearms in a safe would absolutely have prevented this tragedy.

 

I use a safe and I am the only one with the combo. No little kids. I think we need to be careful and we should not assume she did not have the guns in a safe. He may have beat her to get the combo or held a knife to her. My point is that we need to know the facts before we judge her. But having a safe is a good start. As of now, I have not read anything that says she did not have a guns in a safe. I may have missed it...things are flying fast.

[PM2116 0]

@ jackdawack

 

You're making my argument for me. Because I do agree that discipline is not feared by these kids. The fact that a troubled kid can pick up a gun and not have any fear of the consequences scares the hell out of me.

 

You seem to have a lot of experience with this generation of kids, as my wife and family do. I've asked them this same question: Why is this generation of children more difficult to deal with then in the past. And, Why do they feel they can get away with just about anything with just a slap on the wrist?

[XDJohnTact 49]

Well, I don't want this to go off topic just because of one example, but the girl used instagram to superimpose my brothers fiances head onto a porn picture. Now the picture is circulating and the girl only received one in school suspension day. Her Mother has been very cooperative since day one, because this girl has been trouble. The reason I didn't see this happening when I was in high school was because everyone was afraid of getting kicked out of school. Now, it's a slap on the wrist. Same goes for just about everything in this country.

 

This exact thing happened to a student in my high school! The FBI came in and pulled the hard drive out of his computer (in a PC Tech Class), all his files on the school server were confiscated and he was removed from school. We never saw or heard from him again! Sorry for the o/t reply but wanted to show that some schools are on top of this stuff, some just turn a blind eye.

[PM2116 0]

I mean, I'm only 30 and graduated in 2000. I never saw or heard of any of these things happening while I was in high school. No matter how much someone hated a teacher, you never saw it go to a level of personally attacking them. Most feared facing their parents, the law, or even being kicked out of school.

 

This whole tragedy just puts a knot in my stomach for various reasons. It's the kind of thing that smacks you in the face with reality

[JackDaWack 2,895]

@ jackdawack

 

You're making my argument for me. Because I do agree that discipline is not feared by these kids. The fact that a troubled kid can pick up a gun and not have any fear of the consequences scares the hell out of me.

 

You seem to have a lot of experience with this generation of kids, as my wife and family do. I've asked them this same question: Why is this generation of children more difficult to deal with then in the past. And, Why do they feel they can get away with just about anything with just a slap on the wrist?

 

 

I couldn't even begin to answer that, I have no idea what it was like for the previous generation , me being in my late 20's. Kids are only as difficult to deal with as the person in charge makes it. You can walk around a school and see how teachers and kids interact. Same kids in different classrooms can act completely different. These are traits kids learn very young, the idea you have to work for something is probably where much of it stems from. i see a lot of kids on a daily basis, some are hell bent on making your life difficult while others work very hard. When kids aren't motivated to work towards something they begin to fall apart in atmospheres where they actually need to work. The question is how do we motivate them? Is punishment the answer?

 

Does a parent open up a bad report card and feel bad for the kid, then pampers him? Where do we find consistency?

[silverado427 10,756]

Hey, This is my first post on a topic, so I definitely don't want to offend anyone. This is JUST MY OPINION.

 

First, I was raised in Christian home. What this home taught me was to respect your parents, respect the law's of the land (even when you don't agree), & treat others as you would want to be treated. I did make mistakes, I sinned, and I didn't always do the right thing. But, those classic foundations have always stuck with me. Watching my Father treat my Mother with love and respect shaped me into a man that takes care of my wife, never puts her down, and would do anything to make sure she is taken care of. When it comes to others, I have a high level of respect for all opinions & differences. I respect authority. If I break the law, I KNOW there are consequences.

 

Now, My brother & his fiance are teachers. My Wife is an Occupational Therapist who graduated from Columbia University where she experienced 6 months of field work with a mental health institution. Listening to the three of them talk back and forth last night was horrifying. My Brother's fiance was just attacked by one of her students on Thursday, and the school system is only suspending her for one day. That's it? Really? My Wife was telling me how some of these children with serious mental health issues are there because of abusive or neglectful parents. Not only do they not get the help they need, but those abusive parents still have a say in what kind of treatment their children receive. How did we become so backwards?

 

Everyone can keep arguing in circles whether it concerns religion, access to firearms, etc. But one fact remains. This country has moved in a direction of immorality, political correctness, & lack of accountability. Children are being taught that you can get away with just about anything. I don't agree that it's always the parents fault. I've seen kids from good families acting out & breaking the rules because they know that there won't be any repercussions.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I stand firm that this country has shaped it's own evils. We've created this monster. Hope I didn't offend anyone

+1