Chris Christie and unions

[Sht 3]

I'll start by saying I'm a union laborer. And I feel that most union leadership is just like our government...

 

 

 

A bunch of a$$holes that don't give a shit about anything, but getting re-elected. It's said but we keep voting for these dbags.

[mipafox 438]

I'll start by saying I'm a union laborer.  And I feel that most union leadership is just like our government...

 

 

 

A bunch of a$$holes that don't give a shit about anything, but getting re-elected.  It's said but we keep voting for these dbags.

 

What this "we" shit, Kemosabi?

[brocglock23 4]

What this "we" shit, Kemosabi?

Elected??? Last position in my union that was filled was here's your new B.A. No voting.

[NJScott 15]

From shawnmoore81: "Realized he can't rebuild the shore with out the unions?"

 

Don't delude yourself. I've got a brother-in-law whose family homes and businesses were devastated by Katrina in Louisiana. He spent many a week down there helping out by doing welding, cutting, etc. According to him and several other acquaintances I have who spent time down there post-hurricane, the lion's share of the work to rebuild was certainly NOT done by union labor.

 

There was a huge influx of manual and skilled laborers that came in from California and Mexico, mostly illegals. Add to that a ton of non-union, sole proprietor tradesmen like my own plumber here in Bayonne, who went down there to help for a bit, and wound up staying months, making a huge amount of money via some government contracts.

 

While I'm sure unionized labor did their part down there, it was the folks either hungry for work or eager to help that got things back on track there. What makes you think the same--at least to some degree--won't happen, or isn't happening in New Jersey? That's an honest question because I know being the heavily pro-union state we live in that there are probably resolutions being passed that demand only union labor be used to rebuild in certain cities/counties. That, and it almost sounds like a prophecy on your part that NJ can't be rebuilt without unions.

 

No bashing, bro, just a dialogue.

[GlassFanta 0]

So basically, what you are saying, is you are happy that instead of well-paid Americans being able to profit from the work and prosper reasonably, instead illegal immigrants were exploited for pennies on the dollar.

 

This is WHY they have unions......

[Shawnmoore81 623]

This isn't what I was aiming at here. I was more aiming at Christie's political motives. I don't wish it start arguing about unions but at the same time I won't stand by and have my career bashed.

 

Lets get back to Christie

[GlassFanta 0]

Yes, Christie is wearing a Union pin. It is because he wants to run for president and if he does, he will not win a single state that touches the Great Lakes if he keeps spewing his anti Union rhetoric.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Wow, this is a tough one, but I'll try to comply. In my opinion, he's only wearing the pin because it represents the State of NJ in looks and has nothing to do with any groups or affiliations, just that fact that it's a cool looking pin in the shape of NJ. How's that?

 

I think the pin looks cool. I would have NO idea it had anything to do with unions, and frankly, I don't care. Pin still looks cool. Probably made in China.

[heaterbob 53]

So basically, what you are saying, is you are happy that instead of well-paid Americans being able to profit from the work and prosper reasonably, instead illegal immigrants were exploited for pennies on the dollar.

 

This is WHY they have unions......

if there ILLEGAL they should be sent back to where they came from.

[GlassFanta 0]

if there ILLEGAL they should be sent back to where they came from.

 

All well and good, but the contractor who's taking advantage and paying them maybe a hundred bucks for a 12-hour day's labor, instead of hiring Americans at a fair market wage, likely isn't going to be the guy to "send them back"

 

And so, American workers form/join unions in an attempt to combat greed.

[mipafox 438]

Can't the unions send him a meatball parm wrapped in newspaper or something?

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Can't the unions send him a meatball parm wrapped in newspaper or something?

*Like*

[tony357 386]

It's gotta be more then just a cool looking pin. Politicians always have angles.

 

Circles do not have angles.

95% of the building trades workers in south jersey are not union, only union workers i can think of would be, gas co, electric co, and verizon if they are.

[NJScott 15]

So basically, what you are saying, is you are happy that instead of well-paid Americans being able to profit from the work and prosper reasonably, instead illegal immigrants were exploited for pennies on the dollar.

 

This is WHY they have unions......

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never stated an opinion one way or another. I just stated facts that were given to me by family and friends who were in LA after Katrina.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[NJScott 15]

So basically, what you are saying, is you are happy that instead of well-paid Americans being able to profit from the work and prosper reasonably, instead illegal immigrants were exploited for pennies on the dollar.

 

This is WHY they have unions......

 

No, I'M not happy about illegals taking work away from U.S. citizens, but your union compatriots obviously don't give a rat's behind:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/nyregion/employees-at-a-queens-carwash-vote-to-unionize.html?_r=0

 

Just google "Unions organizing illegal or undocumented aliens" and tons of stuff pops up.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[panteramatt 27]

Im not pro or anti-union but facts are they have shut down TONS of business. Also drive up the prices for everyone else by overpaying a lot of their employees. How many times to see a group of roadworkers watching one guy work getting paid $35 an hour!

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Those guys watching are usually that guys partner or supervisor. Then whoever is the next trade ready to work when that hole is complete

[Springfield1911 22]

I don't think Christie had an issue with the trade unions run by private companies. He had a problem with unionized municipal employees (police, fire, teachers, town workers, state, etc. or any employee directly paid for by the public).

[pjd832 146]

this argument is as ridiculous as an anti/pro gun/2a....you people bashing unions are the same as anti's spouting half/completely wrong info but speak as though its gospel....just like they do...alot of it is my "neighbors friends dog said " bs......talk about 3 highway guys watching one work?...sure you may have that here and there....youll have bums in anything...but to generalize and say all are bad is no different that saying all gun owners are psychos hell bent on shooting up schools...because you heard or saw it happen....and news flash alot of those are non union contractors that won the contract and they are are getting the prevailing wage and sucking it up and laying down because theyre used to getting 10-15 pr hr and trying to live on that isnt possible....and taking the work from those of us that are hard working skilled individuals....im a union carpenter...and i work my ass off...the companies ive worked for over the years dont play that "legenday 3 guys watch one guy bs" ...you produce..or youre getting you money and heading to the hall.....want to talk about stupid salaries? sports...theres one...multi million dollar contracts per year for uneducated thugs(not all but hey ill play it like you guys)...quite a few are criminals..of various varities...but thats ok...tune in ..buy their jersey contribute to $30k earrings and ferraris....what about all the executives making stupid money and bonuses?..thats all good as some of you may aspire to be that guy...it goes on and on.....its amazing that you all can see the "antis" stupidity..but arent you union bashers doing the same?....

[brocglock23 4]

I don't think Christie had an issue with the trade unions run by private companies. He had a problem with unionized municipal employees (police, fire, teachers, town workers, state, etc. or any employee directly paid for by the public).

that's why I don't have a problem with him. He's the governor that is responsible for a budget that is directly effected by these unions. Now I don't have a problem with anyone in a particular state union but I have had this conversation multiple times with NJEA members

NJEA Member: Chris Christie hates teachers

Me: What makes you say that?

NJEA Member: He cut our budget, fellow teachers are losing their jobs, and he's just taking and taking and not giving us anything

Me: Well that's unfortunate but have you seen the property taxes in NJ? They are insane, something needs to be done and your salary is covered by my property taxes.

NJEA: Well they don't need to cut money for the children and the people who teach them. They should take it from someplace else or find the money

Me: Well taking from someplace else isn't always possible and you can't just always find the money. Let me ask you a question, when your budget got cut did the administration take cuts too, anyone get laid off, take a pay cut or pay freeze. give up district vehicles for the big whigs? Did your school board try that to keep teachers?

NJEA: NOBODY SHOULD HAVE TO TAKE A PAY CUT, YOU AREN'T GETTING IT!

Me: You are absolutely right, I don't get "IT"

[brocglock23 4]

this argument is as ridiculous as an anti/pro gun/2a....you people bashing unions are the same as anti's spouting half/completely wrong info but speak as though its gospel....just like they do...alot of it is my "neighbors friends dog said " bs......talk about 3 highway guys watching one work?...sure you may have that here and there....youll have bums in anything...but to generalize and say all are bad is no different that saying all gun owners are psychos hell bent on shooting up schools...because you heard or saw it happen....and news flash alot of those are non union contractors that won the contract and they are are getting the prevailing wage and sucking it up and laying down because theyre used to getting 10-15 pr hr and trying to live on that isnt possible....and taking the work from those of us that are hard working skilled individuals....im a union carpenter...and i work my ass off...the companies ive worked for over the years dont play that "legenday 3 guys watch one guy bs" ...you produce..or youre getting you money and heading to the hall.....want to talk about stupid salaries? sports...theres one...multi million dollar contracts per year for uneducated thugs(not all but hey ill play it like you guys)...quite a few are criminals..of various varities...but thats ok...tune in ..buy their jersey contribute to $30k earrings and ferraris....what about all the executives making stupid money and bonuses?..thats all good as some of you may aspire to be that guy...it goes on and on.....its amazing that you all can see the "antis" stupidity..but arent you union bashers doing the same?....

very well put.

[halbautomatisch 60]

This isn't what I was aiming at here. I was more aiming at Christie's political motives. I don't wish it start arguing about unions but at the same time I won't stand by and have my career bashed.

 

Lets get back to Christie

If you don't want to hear anti union talk, then don't post this on a GUN FORUM. We come here to talk about GUN related matters. I've got a reality check for you, the ONLY people who like unions are people who are in them and their families that benefit directly from them. This topic is divisive in it's very nature and is always going to start passionate arguments.

[mipafox 438]

If you don't want to hear anti union talk, then don't post this on a GUN FORUM. We come here to talk about GUN related matters. I've got a reality check for you, the ONLY people who like unions are people who are in them and their families that benefit directly from them. This topic is divisive in it's very nature and is always going to start passionate arguments.

 

I must not be cut of the divisive cloth. I have not a care in the world with respect to unions.

[pjd832 146]

I must not be cut of the divisive cloth. I have not a care in the world with respect to unions.

 

as a normal person shouldnt...i dont hate people because they chose a career path that yields them a better living then me.....

 

 

If you don't want to hear anti union talk, then don't post this on a GUN FORUM. We come here to talk about GUN related matters. I've got a reality check for you, the ONLY people who like unions are people who are in them and their families that benefit directly from them. This topic is divisive in it's very nature and is always going to start passionate arguments.

 

i agree to some degree..it is a gun forum but the op did post in the general discussion...and it wasnt a "pro union post"..its just comical how hypocritical you guys are...

[Luso 6]

The entire argument here is moot. Nj is not a right to work state. Therefore, any argument for a union is an argument for figurative mafia. When there is no choice, there is no argument. You are forced to be in a union when you enter certain trades. Therefore, there can be no arguments made in defense of unions, as there is no control to compare it to.

 

You think it is a union that paves roads and welds pipes? Those things would be done by great tradesman regardless of the fact that they pay union dues (against their will ) to then be wasted in dubious ways by their management

 

Unions , particularly in public sector jobs, are unconscionable

[Luso 6]

this argument is as ridiculous as an anti/pro gun/2a....you people bashing unions are the same as anti's spouting half/completely wrong info but speak as though its gospel....just like they do...alot of it is my "neighbors friends dog said " bs......talk about 3 highway guys watching one work?...sure you may have that here and there....youll have bums in anything...but to generalize and say all are bad is no different that saying all gun owners are psychos hell bent on shooting up schools...because you heard or saw it happen....and news flash alot of those are non union contractors that won the contract and they are are getting the prevailing wage and sucking it up and laying down because theyre used to getting 10-15 pr hr and trying to live on that isnt possible....and taking the work from those of us that are hard working skilled individuals....im a union carpenter...and i work my ass off...the companies ive worked for over the years dont play that "legenday 3 guys watch one guy bs" ...you produce..or youre getting you money and heading to the hall.....want to talk about stupid salaries? sports...theres one...multi million dollar contracts per year for uneducated thugs(not all but hey ill play it like you guys)...quite a few are criminals..of various varities...but thats ok...tune in ..buy their jersey contribute to $30k earrings and ferraris....what about all the executives making stupid money and bonuses?..thats all good as some of you may aspire to be that guy...it goes on and on.....its amazing that you all can see the "antis" stupidity..but arent you union bashers doing the same?....

 

you are missing a critical difference. The government doesn't hold a gun to my head and make me pay for the NFL or the NBA. Those leagues are a free-market enterprise that consumers choose to consume by choice. If you get angry thinking about the millions of dollars they make, it's simple, dont watch. You have no right to complain about how other people make their money and what they spend it on. That sounds like jealousy and class warfare more than anything. If it offends you, don't watch the football game on sundays and stop giving them ratings. Don't buy their tickets. Don't buy their jerseys. If enough people agree with you and act with their wallets, the teams would go bankrupt.

 

the faceless "executives" you mention also ply their trades in a free market. Whatever money they go out and earn, God bless them. Let them have it. You know why? because them making millions didn't cost you a thing. They are beholden to no one but their shareholders. And they are making their shareholders millions while they make it for themselves. Their millions do not cost taxpayers anything. (except for public bailouts, that's a totally different issue, and that's unforgivable and loathsome)

 

However, what is a totally different, and legitimate attack to make on unions like the NJEA, is that all the nonsense they waste money on are DIRECTLY related to my taxdollars. My property taxes and sales taxes go to funding public schools. And when you have thugs running a union that has zero interest in the actually teaching students, and 100% interest in their financial goodies and maintaining jobs for underperforming teachers, then I have a big effing problem with them, and my bitching about it is actually legitimate, because I don't have a choice but to pay those taxes.

 

When something like a "rubber room" exists, where teachers that sexually molest a child get paid to sit in a room doing nothing because paying their salary NOT to teach, is CHEAPER and LESS RISKY than suing a bully union, than I have a big problem with that union.

 

When teachers grab tenure in three years, and for the most part don't give two shits about doing the best they can on their jobs because they have zero incentive to care and can not be fired, then I have a problem with my tax dollars going to that.

 

The solution? Charter schools. Attract the best teachers paid at a market rate, attract the students who then support the school with their voucher. Now the crap teachers are filtered out from the good teachers, and you actually have competition between schools, THAT PUSH THEM TO EXCELL, not just to exists and get paid.

 

I say this as a person with both union laborers and teachers in my family living in this state. Any of them would be glad to chew your ears off on how much they hate their unions, and see the apathy and sloth it encourages. Nothing gets my blood boiling more than the NJ public education system.

[smoe_picka 0]

He’s just signed a bill directly impacting my UNION TRADE for the better. We were all shocked but a few weeks ago he went along and signed a law we have been working on for years. NJ law will now include license for all people who repair install and maintain elevators, escalators, and moving walks using the IUEC mechanics exam as the benchmark. I can't help but laugh when I hear the stereotypical all union goons are fat and lazy!

 

As for public sector unions and the most government positions alike, they provide services and exist to spend tax payer dollars no matter what the end product is.

[smoe_picka 0]

Charter schools do not always equal a better education. I do see how they can make sense when you consider how poorly some schools are ran. SOme people in power think the answer is to rob the tax payers of more money and shovel it into the failing school system which just rewards failure. That failure has been the same game played across the country on all levels for years. It applies everywhere and nobody has been held accountable out of fear of retribution. Charter teachers are paid 25% less than union counterparts. Good for tax payers however is it good for the students? Do you honestly think a teacher making a huge percentage less than someone 2 blocks away is going to motivate them to do anything but get out of there ASAP and start applying for a union position? So charters attract recent grads trying to get a foot in the door. I only bring this up because my best friend teaches AP math in a local highschool. STEM is a huge topic right now and he's beside himself when you ask him about some charter schools SATs. Some Philly charters boast that they are getting an 80% college placement. Sounds great until you peel that onion. Some of the kids get math credit for computer assisted math which entails them typing the front page of the City Paper for math credit. They are offered admission into PCC and leave before the first semister because they are drowning with the 5 math classes they will need to get past algebra. I learned a janitor at one of Phillys charters made more than the teachers simply because it is the CEOs brother in law. Its another avenue for corruption.

 

Im sure there good and bad within that system but theres a complete lack of clarity on whos teaching what in charters.

[Luso 6]

First of all, for it to be a true system, there would need to be a significant amount of charter schools, so that they provide full competition geographically. If they just sprinkle the landscape while standard union public schools are the foothold, they defeat their own purpose. The logic is that the better performing schools can attract the most/best students, and therefore have more funds with which to spend their vouchers. Thus, they can compensate their elite teachers more competitively and retain their talent. Sure that is scaled to a degree of school capacity and such, but it is an infinitely more competitive and fair system than "you live in Freehold. You will go to freehold high school, regardless of your abilities or the school's quality". People would think it would be ridiculous if they could only shop at the supermarket in their own town. Never mind the best sales on peanut butter or the freshest milk is at the supermarket one town over, you can only shop in your own town's market. You better pray your town has a good school, because unlike all the other things in your life that you make choices on every day, you can't choose to send your kid to a better public school.

 

I can tell you in my NJ high school, there were SEVERAL teachers who were making WELL into the 6 figure range. Considering what they do, teaching 3 periods a day, for 9 months, with several holidays and breaks sprinkled throughout those 9 months, I find that to be absurd, especially considering their work consisted of taking a multiple choice test from a book and running it through a scantron machine. Their salaries have no market competition. It's basically whatever the unions can fight to give them, and they never give up an inch once they gain it.

 

Notice there are never pay decreases in these public sector union jobs. There are never firings of tenured teachers. I can't take any job seriously in which there are no consequences for negative actions, and conversely, rewards for positive actions. It demoralizes the excellent teachers out there who put in a tremendous amount of effort just to be rewarded with either A) getting fired because the district can't afford to take on another tenured teacher (happens all the time) or B) getting the same pay raise that every single other teacher at their level of seniority gets regardless of their effort.

 

What does that teach you? To any logical person its this: I am going to stop giving a shit, I am going to stop going the extra mile, I am going to stop caring about results, because no matter how much effort I put in, I can not get an tangible benefit, reward, or recognition for it. I only get rewarded for staying alive another year, and I get rewarded at the same rate as everyone.

 

Ambitious people quit teaching very quickly. Either that, or they grow jaded and stop caring. Shame because there are great teachers out there, and there coud be more, but their system is so backwards in corrupt it actually inhibits progress while making the taxpayers broke

[gunguy1960 2]

I would say public unions suck, even Roosevelt feared them holding the taxpayers hostage, which they often due. They consider their jobs lifetime appointments and treat accountability like kryptonite. Their leaders are anti gun, anti religion, pro illegals, anti traditional marriage, anti energy, anti small buisness, do I need to continue? As for our governor he continues to gain more democratic voters to his side, and losing more republicans, hes another McCain, republican in name only. Sorry if anyones butt hurts.