Fire on US citizens?

[GlassFanta 0]

Nickjc is spot on.

 

People on this board may not like the example, but it's a great one. Marijuana was made a federal felony in the 30's and has spent decades being vilified in the media, society etc, people arrested for it, etc. In recent times people have decided to stand up in civil disobedience in states all over the country. Say what you want about "hippies" but if you ask me, it takes some serious balls, balls of steel, to have thousands of people literally show up at the state house and rip a bong right out front in broad daylight, in the face of federal felony charges. The result of these actions? Bunch of states decriminalized, two states legalized. I have not seen gun owners attempt anything of the sort of magnitude, aside from tough talk to each other on the internet.

[RUTGERS95 890]

I come from a rural Ohio family and lived in Ohio for 28 years on a farm before I came to NJ in the 90s. I have family in the hills and into Kentucky. Resisting when they come to the door means you've already lost. I know plenty of good ole boys who would shoot it out with cops. Those are the stupid ones and they'll lose. There won't be any irregular militia army formed and marching anywhere to do anything. They will single out people and overwhelm them. Would you shoot cops if your neighbor was getting raided? Probably not. Would they behave the same way? Probably so. So, here ya go, mr gun banner. Here's all my registered stuff, good luck to ya.

 

This does not mean I've given up. There are other ways to resist than sitting off 200 yards, taking a respiratory pause and squeezing the trigger. It won't be a shooting war until tanks are in the street and that will be long after they've gone door to door confiscating firearms.

 

I dont' disagree with alot of what you are saying merely going by the numbers and history. Having a one off with the cops is vastly different than having people from all over stating they will not give up a fundamental belief like the 2a. There is absolutely a lot of bravado out there but again, all you need is 10% to make it a game changer. The gov't knows this.....

 

Just look at a place like NJ. No town can take 2 shoot outs at the same time, the resources are not there and doctrine doesn't allow for that model. If 10% of the population was zealous enough to say no, that's 80k with guns that will shoot it out at some point with the boys in blue. No gov't is gonna risk that.....

 

If you are a cop, are you gonna risk your life for something you may or may not believe in vs 80k armed people. Those 80k might be a one off here or there but in bigger towns you may get 1,2 or3 or more at a time. Who knows really with social networking. If it succeeds in one place, if people see a WACO or a Ruby Ridge happening close by and it's them next and they're already in the mindset of an environment of gun confiscation do you really think it's going to end with people just giving up. The state doesn't have that many armed police officers and no one wants it to come to this

 

Sounds implausible but you really never know.

 

again, this isn't a one off, this is an entire culture within our country that believes it's a right that cannot be taken away. Zealousy is very powerful, it boils down to this; how many zealots are out there in this environment?

[GlassFanta 0]

Amen brother!

[RUTGERS95 890]

Really...yes this is a defeatist statement......your lucky if you going to have 2k in trenton....you think the above will happen...??? or even possible...? sadly no....daddy has to get dinner ont he way hoe from work cause little johnny is being picked up by mommy from soccer in the minivan...see cushy lives....not gonna happen....

 

what is defeatist about this statement? Respectfully, do you know what a defeatist statement is? This may, in your eyes, be lofty, unrealistic, grandiose, or a pipe dream but defeatist?

[RUTGERS95 890]

for the record, I am not saying it's coming to a shooting action......

[incinerator950 0]

like i said............national guard. NOT the army, air force, marines, navy.

 

Remember when people said NG were disarming people during Katrina?

[Silent Service 7]

Remember when people said NG were disarming people during Katrina?

 

I saw a vid an it was the Police. From the video I think it was a prcatice drill quite honestly, but I don't know all the idiosyncrasies of that situation. But for sure there was confiscation.

[RUTGERS95 890]

Remember when people said NG were disarming people during Katrina?

 

the SC ruled on that and said it was unconstitutional which is why I don't think a gun confiscation scheme can work and is all bluster. Then again, who knows what they are capable of

[[email protected] 57]

Pray that it never comes to this scenario, then pray again for the stregnth to do what is needed to preserve life and liberty.

[incinerator950 0]

the SC ruled on that and said it was unconstitutional which is why I don't think a gun confiscation scheme can work and is all bluster. Then again, who knows what they are capable of

 

I really don't know anymore to be honest.

[Soju 153]

I beg to differ....I have not, thankfully have had the need to have to shoot at someone in anger....or have someone do the same to me....HOWEVER, in my family and some friends have had this unfortunate experience...as police officers and military personnel. While i have not lived it their experiences illustrate to me....that those that are bombastic about what they might do or think they have to do....dont have a clue...you can think my position has no merit, but it is fully substantiated that those that have not been there or done that, it is easy to be boastful....thats all i am saying.

 

You misunderstood. I didn't say your position had no merit. I says it either does or it doesn't, but knowing people has nothing to do with that.

 

 

Well your opinion on my thoughts on the 2A are my point....your absolutism will be the death knell for the 2A.... it does not matter, YOU have already complied....

 

I'm not sure I know what this means. I'm also not sure it has any real meaning.

 

See because they have already levied laws against the 2A, that if you were a strict constructionist, YOU wouldn't stand for....YET you have an FID, you do COE's 4473 etc..

see you conceded certain constraints to keep your 'rights'....

 

The bill of rights and the 2A are not outdated....the absolutism is.....

 

Fortunately for me, you have made claims that simply aren't true, and are hardly valid to begin with. You have however stated what I said originally. You believe the 2nd is outdated. You can try and play word games with it to make it sound like you aren't saying that, but I'm not so sure you are as clever as you think. It isn't fooling anybody.

 

Again, I wasn't, and still am not saying your position isn't valid. I commented originally because you made an irrelevant point to try and back up that position, and then got all upset when somebody 'put words in your mouth', when that wasn't the case.

 

Please try and recognize the difference between being corrected and your argument being challenged. They are not the same thing.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

I love the tough bluster...it smells like victory.

 

Love to see how many can load up with a rifle and 12 mags and run up a hill...

 

Thought so. Good talk.

[GlassFanta 0]

I love the tough bluster...it smells like victory.

 

Love to see how many can load up with a rifle and 12 mags and run up a hill...

 

Thought so. Good talk.

 

LOL yep. I love seeing, especially on other forums, talking about their "load outs" and their various 50-lb chest rigs. Then you see the guy's pics in the general forum and he's like 52 years old and 300 pounds with a bad knee.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Funny thing is a treadmill costs about as much as a Glock. Probably do more to safeguard you and your family in the throes of the NWO, Confiscation or the Zombies. But what do I know...

[GlassFanta 0]

Funny thing is a treadmill costs about as much as a Glock. Probably do more to safeguard you and your family in the throws of the NWO, Confiscation or the Zombies. But what do I know...

 

Not to mention diabeetus and heart disease will probably claim their lives much sooner than the NWO will.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Prespective...

 

A very rare element.

 

Not to mention diabeetus and heart disease will probably claim their lives much sooner than the NWO will.

[Soju 153]

Funny thing is a treadmill costs about as much as a Glock. Probably do more to safeguard you and your family in the throes of the NWO, Confiscation or the Zombies. But what do I know...

 

Cardio is rule number one!

[RUTGERS95 890]

I think the bigger rare element today are men of principal and men that stand up for something vs taking the comfort of their surroundings. After all, when a reasonable person gives an inch to an irrational person, that irrational person wants more.

[JustJoe 0]

>>>

[Qel Hoth 33]

I respectfully disagree........I personally believe we are where we are due to the failure of the last twenty or so years...if not more...

 

I have always said that the majority of americans are middle of the road type...what you have are the far left and far right loons dictating policy.....

 

The failure of proper negotiations over the years and the absolutist policy of both sides has put us where we are.....at this point in time.

 

If a more managed solution were put forth at the beginning of this debate, if cooler heads prevailed over the years, we *might* not be where we are now...

 

You can argue the minutia of what *I* think is reasonable...I can argue what you think is reasonable and those are FAIR arguements....what is not fair is to have a thread like this one because it is over the top ridiculous....

 

NO ONE in this day and age is going to be part of any armed insurrection....NOT GONNA HAPPEN...

 

The problem with "middle of the road" is that the road is always shifting. If today 20 round mags, a national FID with yearly qualifications, and NICS for all transactions is acceptable to the "average" American, think about what will be an "acceptable" concession in another 30 or 40 years when you have an entire generation that knows nothing different. It would have been completely unthinkable to ban full auto weapons in 1934. However 52 years later with the vast majority of people never knowing of anything different than the NFA, the registry was successfully closed.

 

Likewise in the 30's the idea of needing permission from the government to buy a gun would have been unfathomable. In 68 we were OK with the government making sure that you weren't a felon/mentally unstable/etc. In 2013 we are (seriously) talking about needing a certification to buy a gun - requiring a positive action in order to be allowed to exercise an inalienable human right. In 2050 will we be talking about whether or not we should have a "good reason" to buy a gun? Sure, it will start like NJ is, where "target practice" or "all lawful purposes" is a good reason. In another 50 years will "target practice" no longer be a good enough reason to buy another gun when you already have 5 guns you can target shoot with?

 

If we, the law abiding citizens who have done nothing wrong and seek only to exercise our natural rights and enjoy a centuries old tradition continue to "compromise" whenever an evil person does an evil thing, our right will surely die, and it will be us that have killed it.

[ruger9 0]

The Mary Jane analogy is at least partially flawed: after the gub'ment takes my guns, I can't GROW MORE in the woods behind my house...

[ruger9 0]

I think the bigger rare element today are men of principal and men that stand up for something vs taking the comfort of their surroundings. After all, when a reasonable person gives an inch to an irrational person, that irrational person wants more.

 

Yes sir.

[ruger9 0]

 

If we, the law abiding citizens who have done nothing wrong and seek only to exercise our natural rights and enjoy a centuries old tradition continue to "compromise" whenever an evil person does an evil thing, our right will surely die, and it will be us that have killed it.

 

Amen.

[Malsua 1,422]

The Mary Jane analogy is at least partially flawed: after the gub'ment takes my guns, I can't GROW MORE in the woods behind my house...

 

You can if you have a 3d printer.

[ruger9 0]

You can if you have a 3d printer.

 

Yes yes- the "3D printer" conspiracy. I know it's real, but at this point in time I don't think it's real FEASIBLE, at least not en masse. Maybe someday people will be making black market rifles in their basements with 3D printers and selling them for $5000, I'd really like those days to NOT arrive...

[Walt of Destiny 412]

This was from a "motley fool" email that was circulated YESTERDAY:(link for the entire article is at the end) it's against regulating 3d printers. I was about to post it.

 

"The first shots were fired from an ABS-polymer Beretta knockoff made by a 3-D printer. The plastic gun jammed after three shots, but the killer had prepared for this by printing several more copies of the same gun, which were strapped to his body beneath a black trench coat. These did not jam as quickly. When his handguns were exhausted, the killer unslung a partly plastic AR-15, fitted with a high-capacity 3-D printed magazine, and unloaded on terrified bystanders. Within minutes, 35 were dead, and another 11 wounded in the carnage.

 

Representatives of the manufacturer of the 3-D printer the killer used to create his weapons expressed their sincere condolences to the victims' families, but offered no other comment. Shares of the volatile stock dropped 12% in trading today..."

 

Nobody who respects human life wants to see this nightmare become a reality. Efforts may already be under way to prevent it in the future -- but regulating 3-D printing's software is not the answer, and regulating the end product is an exercise in reactive futility, as these weapons are untraceable by design. So what is the answer? What is the future of the 3-D printer in a world where guns can be created by anyone with the right design file, and what can be done to avoid the worst of what that world implies?

 

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/01/23/the-dangerous-precedent-and-unstoppable-future-of.aspx

 

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Now the salient aspect of that article is the not so subtle bashing of gun enthusiasts. The fools are probably "short" on the 3d prototyping tech after hawking it as "the end of 'made in China".

 

We have now been relegated to a tortured reference in a sales piece geared towards old people with a pension to invest.

 

Terrible.

[WVisHome 0]

The problem with "middle of the road" is that the road is always shifting. If today 20 round mags, a national FID with yearly qualifications, and NICS for all transactions is acceptable to the "average" American, think about what will be an "acceptable" concession in another 30 or 40 years when you have an entire generation that knows nothing different. It would have been completely unthinkable to ban full auto weapons in 1934. However 52 years later with the vast majority of people never knowing of anything different than the NFA, the registry was successfully closed.

 

Likewise in the 30's the idea of needing permission from the government to buy a gun would have been unfathomable. In 68 we were OK with the government making sure that you weren't a felon/mentally unstable/etc. In 2013 we are (seriously) talking about needing a certification to buy a gun - requiring a positive action in order to be allowed to exercise an inalienable human right. In 2050 will we be talking about whether or not we should have a "good reason" to buy a gun? Sure, it will start like NJ is, where "target practice" or "all lawful purposes" is a good reason. In another 50 years will "target practice" no longer be a good enough reason to buy another gun when you already have 5 guns you can target shoot with?

 

If we, the law abiding citizens who have done nothing wrong and seek only to exercise our natural rights and enjoy a centuries old tradition continue to "compromise" whenever an evil person does an evil thing, our right will surely die, and it will be us that have killed it.

 

Nailed it.

[NJdiverTony 27]

I love the tough bluster...it smells like victory.

 

Love to see how many can load up with a rifle and 12 mags and run up a hill...

 

Thought so. Good talk.

 

+1 LOL...

 

All the internet tough guys on here, just crack me up. All the tough talk and "Molon Labe"... but in reality, if the feds ever come and try to bust down their door down, they'd be hiding in the closet and crapping their pants.

[spacemanvic 0]

+1 LOL...

 

All the internet tough guys on here, just crack me up. All the tough talk and "Molon Labe"... but in reality, if the feds ever come and try to bust down their door down, they'd be hiding in the closet and crapping their pants.

 

Absolutely. There is no way an untrained farmer or broken down veteran can stand up to a world class trained warrior.