Fire on US citizens?

[MrSurfboard 1]

ive said this a thousand times, and the vast majority of people dont realize it. the gov will NOT use the us military in any kind of confiscation/police state action. they will use THEIR OWN TROOPS, ie: all the alphabet agencies - cia, fbi, batfe, dhs, 'gun control task force', etc etc. they arent the military. they dont take the same oath, as far as i know. the gov signs their checks and pays their pensions. and if you think the typical cop has a superman attitude, a gov agent is 1000xs worse.

 

the us military is NEVER to be used on home soil. the national guard can, in times of emergencies and the like. but not your typical enlisted soldier. if it ever does get to the point of all out war, then martial law will have already been declared, and at that point it doesnt matter.

 

When they start arming the TSA, be afraid. The TSA will eventually be mutated into the government's secret police force. As to what force they will use when it comes time to disarm everyone, think Blue Helmets as in UN peace keeper forces.

[ruger9 0]

There will be no revolution, I'm sorry.

 

Believe me, we ALL hope you're right. But that IS the reason the 2nd Amendment was drafted, after all.

 

The idea is, the REAL THREAT of Revolution keeps one from ever happening.

 

But we do have to be ready to fight- we can't bluff- bluff, and our lives as Americans is over.

[Underdog 1,593]

Who is Alex Jones?

 

Well, if we spread our military throughout the world, they won't be here to help us out when the UN forces come a knocking...

[ruger9 0]

Who is Alex Jones?

 

Well, if we spread our military throughout the world, they won't be here to help us out when the UN forces come a knocking...

 

Fortunately, bullets penetrate powder blue.

[Handyman 5,682]

ive said this a thousand times, and the vast majority of people dont realize it. the gov will NOT use the us military in any kind of confiscation/police state action. ...

 

If the govenrment is willing to ignore the Constitution, why on earth would they not ignore posse comitatus? Everything is currently fair game based on the whim of our overlords.

[ECShooter 0]

Who is Alex Jones?

 

Well, if we spread our military throughout the world, they won't be here to help us out when the UN forces come a knocking...

 

Please don't bother looking him up. If you don't know who he is, you are better off than the rest!

 

The nice thing about "inviting" the UN forces in is that they won't rape our wives, sisters, mothers and daughters, they won't occupy our homes and they will respect our laws.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[ruger9 0]

ive said this a thousand times, and the vast majority of people dont realize it. the gov will NOT use the us military in any kind of confiscation/police state action.

 

the us military is NEVER to be used on home soil.

 

Really?

 

You should go check out my thread (today) on "The Bonus March." Army vs UNARMED citizens in DC.

[ruger9 0]

Nick,

 

Am I mistaken, (if I am confusing you with another poster, I do apologize), but are you one of the "what's with all the defeatist attitudes" posters? Or am I mistaken and you are one of the "this shit will never pass" posters?

[[email protected] 57]

Looks like your sack has already been cut off.

[JustJoe 0]

..

 

I have my own thoughts what should be done.... which are VERY sensible....finds a middle ground....and could make everyone's life a little easier...

 

 

And what would they be? I'm not calling you out publicly. I'm just curious.

 

I do agree with you, this internet elephantiasis is getting to be embarrassing.

[ruger9 0]

You have me correct as "what's with all the defeatist attitudes" posters...... I am also one of those that believes NEGOTIATIONS must happen...and that "line in the sand" stuff is not reality........

 

However, as I try to be as positive as I can and fight for what I believe....you can take what I typed above to the bank....

 

There are men on this forum that have been in actual COMBAT, both domestically and internationally............and frankly THEY know what it is like to be shot at and shoot someone else...

 

THEY know what it is like to kill another and to almost be killed or have a close friend killed....THIS whole banter about MOLON LABE is HorseShite.....

 

I bet some of the 'let's check the size of our junk crew' has never even taken a deer let alone fire a weapon at a living thing.......to KILL IT.....

 

We do ourselves a disservice with this nonsense like this thread..........and frankly i thought we could be better than this...I guess I am wrong...

 

 

I have my own thoughts what should be done.... which are VERY sensible....finds a middle ground....and could make everyone's life a little easier...

 

Oh yeah....and when someone types, " what about Shall not be infringed...dont you get nick...."...yeah I get it....I believe it...but you know what...YOUR a minority and if you do the whole line in the sand BS again and again...guess what...your enumerated right will mean horse shite.... they will steam roll over you and you will have NOTHING...where you could have saved a lot....

 

 

Honestly, Nick, I don't think you get it at all... the constitution, founding intent, any of it. Pro-2A'ers attitudes like yours are what RINOs are to conservatives. We're all entitled to our opinions, of course. And none of us (with a brain) WANT to shoot at anyone, or want a revolution. But it can't be argued that 2A wasn't written for expressly that purpose. If you feel differently, I'd have to color you as not on our team.

[Candide 0]

...............I am going to kick myself....BUT I am going to post in this thread....................

 

I see soooo much internet bravado it makes me sick.........

 

I have not, but have ANY of you that are boasting, ever EVER been on the ' two way range ' ??

 

I have had friends and family that HAVE and they say it is NOT fun........

 

So let's tuck it back in our pants and have a reality check.....if they boys in black come knocking, your giving them up, no if and's or but's.... if you do not you will die, your family destroyed both morally, physically and financially...and you will be labeled a domestic terrorist and made a pariah .... posteriety will long forget who you were...

 

If you hole up in your home and *IF* you are able to get a message out calling for aid.....You will receive ZERO support..NONE....

 

This is NOT 1775 and it is NOT Lexington and Concorde..... A Paul Revere look alike is NOT riding out from the local PD to warn you that the boys in black are coming....

 

 

PLEASE be sensible ............holy hell...

 

Thats what I've been saying. I'm not saying I like it but I feel that the majority will fold in that situation.

[ruger9 0]

Hi Joe !

 

Thanks for asking....

 

I am sure some will see these as very negative and giving up....LOL far from it !

 

1) National Firearms ID card

2) National CCW

3) Certification course in order to obtain # 1/ #2

4) Yearly proficiency check and re-certification

5) NO face to face sales without NICS check

6) magazine limit to 20 rounds in rifle and pistol nationwide

 

 

..

 

The problem here, nick, is that none of the government thinks your list is "sensible." I think it's a fine list, altho I have a problem with the mag limit, as statistics show over and over again that they are completely irrelevant to crimes/deaths. I think maybe you place too much faith in our elcted officials. Maybe when NJ (or the nation) gets laws like NY just got (not saying NOW, but sometime), you will think differently.

 

And something else to think about... when the day comes that they DO come for them, and you DO surrender them, what playing cards will you have in your hand to accomplish your "Sensible list" then? THAT is what all this comes down to, in the end. Without the THREAT of resistance, the govt will bend us over a chair... it's happened over & over again throughout history. Learn from it, our Founders did and they didn't even have the 19th and 20th centuries atrocities to further educate them.

[WVisHome 0]

Nick,

 

2 things....

 

 

Why "20 rounds"?

 

 

and what will prevent FTF transfers from NOT getting a NICS check?

 

 

 

Just so you know, I support some sort of "certification" or "qualification". I fully believe you should be required to prove you're capable of properly handling a firearm before you can buy one.

 

 

Not totally against the National FID, but that's toeing the line with National registration.

[ruger9 0]

Reality is what we make it to be. There are 300 million guns, 100 million gun owners in this country. There is no difference in 1787 and 2013. Unless WE LET THEM PLAY THAT HAND. I don't understand how you can say you "believe" in 2A, then in the same breath say, in effect, "it's irrelevant/outdated."

 

The Bill of Rights was designed to never be outdated. I have always said, shooting will not (and should not) be required. But if the govt ever tries confiscation, that is exactly what you will have. And I don't think that's "crazy" or "bravado" or even "unreasonable." If the govt/whatever forces they use don't want to be involved in that, all they have to do is stop. Stop moving closer to confiscation. Because when that begins, the blood will ALL on the GOVERNMENTS hands, not the peoples.

 

I should post a disclaimer here, since I have been recently informed that I am "pro-revolution":

God forbid, nobody wants that, shouldn't ever have to come to that, the threat of the 2A was to AVOID that, yada yada yada

[ruger9 0]

At what point did I say that the 2A or any of the enumerated rights of the Bill of rights are outdated....dont put words in my mouth i detest that....if you are going to quote me do so accurately...

 

Come back with an arguement against something I actually said...not what you think I said....

 

You inferred that an actual exercise of 2A rights is "not reality", did you not?

 

So, OK... You gonna' resist when the time comes? Or you gonna' hide 'em? Or you gonna' hand 'em over and hope for the best? That'll tell me all I need to know.

 

Actually, don't answer that. PM me if you want.

[ECShooter 0]

 

You have me correct as "what's with all the defeatist attitudes" posters...... I am also one of those that believes NEGOTIATIONS must happen...and that "line in the sand" stuff is not reality........

 

However, as I try to be as positive as I can and fight for what I believe....you can take what I typed above to the bank....

 

There are men on this forum that have been in actual COMBAT, both domestically and internationally............and frankly THEY know what it is like to be shot at and shoot someone else...

 

THEY know what it is like to kill another and to almost be killed or have a close friend killed....THIS whole banter about MOLON LABE is HorseShite.....

 

I bet some of the 'let's check the size of our junk crew' has never even taken a deer let alone fire a weapon at a living thing.......to KILL IT.....

 

We do ourselves a disservice with this nonsense like this thread..........and frankly i thought we could be better than this...I guess I am wrong...

 

In lieu of acting proactively what do we do... lessee we continue to insult the governor about his weight.... let's not try to woo him to our side...let's make fun of him....makes sense...

 

In lieu of negotiating in good faith with those that make law, in lieu of finding a middle ground that makes sense FOR EVERYONE and secure the continuation of firearms ownership...we both the left and right, alienate each side and drive a further wedge between citizens in this nation.

 

I have my own thoughts what should be done.... which are VERY sensible....finds a middle ground....and could make everyone's life a little easier...

 

what people fail to realize when engaging another in debate, where you might not or could not win, allow some wiggle room for diplomacy to gain what you can and let your foe save some face....

 

I have never seen a negotiation whereby the line in the sand was ever good....it always fails..

 

Oh yeah....and when someone types, " what about Shall not be infringed...dont you get nick...."...yeah I get it....I believe it...but you know what...YOUR a minority and if you do the whole line in the sand BS again and again...guess what...your enumerated right will mean horse shite.... they will steam roll over you and you will have NOTHING...where you could have saved a lot....

 

My .02 YMMV

 

AWESOME!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Gun guys think it will be framed as a patriotic war against a mis-used military. In reality, they would simply be labeled criminals and rounded up by law enforcement.

 

^^^^^^^^THIS

[Qel Hoth 33]

Hi Joe !

 

Thanks for asking....

 

I am sure some will see these as very negative and giving up....LOL far from it !

 

1) National Firearms ID card

2) National CCW

3) Certification course in order to obtain # 1/ #2

4) Yearly proficiency check and re-certification

5) NO face to face sales without NICS check

6) magazine limit to 20 rounds in rifle and pistol nationwide

 

 

are just some of the things that I see as being a valid middle ground that preserves our rights and satiates those that would look to take them all...but what do I know...I have no balls according to some....... ha !

 

Oh yeah and also please feel free to ask my WHY on any of those and I will be happy to expand upon them..........

 

There can be no "compromise." Say we "compromise" with the antis and we have your list as the new laws. WHEN some asshole shoots up a school again, and make no mistake, it WILL happen again, say he has a ID card and/or CCW. The antis will say "See? He had a FID and a CCW!! The requirements aren't strict enough yet, X group shouldn't be allowed to have guns!" And so we "compromise" again, with only some of the people whom the antis wish to disenfranchise losing their rights.

 

No FTF without NICS? The next asshole to shoot up a school bought his gun FTF, and he may or may not have had a NICS check done, no way to prove it right? Since NICS records have to be destroyed within 24 hours. The antis clamor for no more FTF at all, all sales MUST use an FFL.

 

20 round limits? The next asshole uses 20 round mags. "That's far too many bullets!! Look how many innocent children he was able to kill. If he had 10 round magazines some of these children would still be alive today!" And so we "compromise" again and have 15 round magazines.

 

 

If we "compromise," we give up our rights, WITH OUR BLESSING. A lamb and a wolf are discussing dinner plans, does the lamb say "I'm getting a little fat, could you trim off some of my belly?"

[O-gre 7]

If you start a negotiation with what is "acceptable" to you then you will wind up with something that is not. While most gun owners would probably surrender their firearms however there are parts of the Country that would go to war. Doesn't really matter because it won't be door to door confiscation. They aren't that stupid. They know it will take years and that is their objective. We are reacting day to day and they have a decade long plan. Keep your eyes on the ball fellas!

[Njbanshee 9]

Nick has some good ideas

[ruger9 0]

I didn't infer that the 2A is not reality...what I said and no inference was made...was that all the internet bravado and tough guy molon labe, is NOT gonna happen...the house of cards will fold....

 

 

 

To think that you will stand at your door and say no you cant have them...send me your address at Rahway... so I can send you a cake...

 

The first is a matter of opinion, everyone thinks they are Nostradamus, but only time will tell the tale.

 

The second isn't how it would go down anyway, imo. Yes- individual confiscations are one thing. But enough of those will happen where some WILL start standing up, and the media will brand them as "domestic terrorists", but most of US will also know that's BS... enough people will start getting killed (on both sides of the equation) that the confiscation idea will be...reconsidered. I don't claim to be Nostradamus either, and that is just my opinion of how it would go down. Mass, widespread confiscation couldn't be done w/o the US military, there simply aren't enough LEOs to do the job.

 

And none of this even touches the complication of people having "sold" or "lost" their weapons. More manpower needed, not available. It also doesn't touch the complication of the LEOs who have already stated they will not comply with confiscation (as well as all those who HAVENT stated it yet, and won't publicly.) To those who think the govt will simply call in the NG and steamroll over us, en masse, I submit you have a far too-simplistic view of the subject at hand.

 

I'll say it again- the greatest thing about 2A isn't that we WILL have this...thing...happen, it's the THREAT of us BEING ABLE TO DO IT that keeps it from happening. Take away our ability to maintain the threat (by leaving us with shotguns and bolt actions), and the threat itself becomes null and void. And taking away 2A, bit by bit, is what has been happening since 1837 (see below), which is why we must not give ONE MORE INCH.

 

But do what you want- move- they'll get to you eventually. ANd eventually, you'll have a decision to make. Unless you're lucky enough to die first, then you'll leave that terrible decision to your (and everyone's) children.

 

 

 

1837

Georgia passes a law banning handguns. The law is ruled unconstitutional and thrown out.

[WVisHome 0]

So, back to the topic....

 

 

*IF* the claim is true....that Obama is vetting military leaders on whether they'll "fire on US citizens" or not...

 

 

....what in the world can you imagine would prompt that?

[JustJoe 0]

Hi Joe !

 

Thanks for asking....

 

I am sure some will see these as very negative and giving up....LOL far from it !

 

1) National Firearms ID card

2) National CCW

3) Certification course in order to obtain # 1/ #2

4) Yearly proficiency check and re-certification

5) NO face to face sales without NICS check

6) magazine limit to 20 rounds in rifle and pistol nationwide

 

 

are just some of the things that I see as being a valid middle ground that preserves our rights and satiates those that would look to take them all...but what do I know...I have no balls according to some....... ha !

 

Oh yeah and also please feel free to ask my WHY on any of those and I will be happy to expand upon them..........

 

 

Thanks. I see where you're coming from. I just don't think the other side would ever settle for that. They smell the blood in the water.

[oneshot 45]

So, back to the topic....

 

 

*IF* the claim is true....that Obama is vetting military leaders on whether they'll "fire on US citizens" or not...

 

 

....what in the world can you imagine would prompt that?

Him (Obama) thinking he is king. His smug arrogant personality... Obama wanting the Government to have complete control of its subjects'

I would love to smack that smug look right off his dishonest face and Mrz O too

[ruger9 0]

 

....what in the world can you imagine would prompt that?

 

imo, attempted confiscation... (and not just the passing of the law, but the actual attempted confiscation itself) of all semi-automatic weapons, which are the only weapons feasible at this point in history to defend and exercise 2A. At first, the LEOs would be doing it, then when they start getting in firefights, that'll be reason enough to declare marshall law and call in the military. Scary shit. God forbid it ever happens. I predict we would have hugely conflicting emotions and resulting actions from BOTH sides, much like in the civil war, where brother fought brother.

[ruger9 0]

Here's another take... Matt Bracken... this scenario revolves around the fiscal collapse and civil unrest following... I could easily see the military being called in to "deal with" this scenario, much like they were in Katrina, and weapons confiscation being a part of that, just like it was in Katrina...

 

Bracken article:

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/bracken-when-the-music-stops-how-americas-cities-may-explode-in-violence/

 

What happened with Katrina:

[WVisHome 0]

 

 

To be fair, I prefaced my post with a big *IF*....

[zoid 24]

Hypothetically speaking since we're on hypothetical situations anyway; If they came to your

door and were like "Give'em up". And you said: "Uh, I sold them a while ago, and

I don't have any docs to prove it." What would happen?

 

I guess either way you're screwed cause you would not be able to use them anyway.

 

Personally I agree with Nick's statements. I don't really think the whole: Come n get'em! thing

is a very productive stance to the matter at hand. I'm not saying a middle ground is

necessarily fair or in compliance with the 2nd Amendment, but it's a realistic approach to

what's happening right now.

 

Personally I'd take his suggestions. Way better than the current NJ laws and what is being

proposed on the other end of the spectrum.

 

I also don't think if someone comes with some logical ideas and some sense they should be labelled

as gutless (or in this case with no balls, LOL).

[ruger9 0]

To be clear, I'm not saying to ignore all legislative/grass roots efforts, and sit in your front yard in your underwear with a sawed-off 870 on your lap flying a Come and Take Them flag. Of course we need to rally, and contact reps, and..and...and...

 

...and what if none of that works? What if they pass a bill (since we're being hypothetical here, altho it isn't hypothetical in NY state now, is it?), that all "assault rifles" on the list are banned, and you will be a criminal if you don't get rid of them in x days... you going to get rid of them? This is where the "come and take them" comes into play. Non-compliance with an unconstitutional law, and it has to be the gun owing public EN MASSE.

 

Alot of people when talking "worst case" aren't really talking about gunplay, as that is to be avoided. They are talking about non-compliance. And the various "schemes" thereof to "defend" against it.