Hollow Points

[222 3]

Actual exemptions section.

 

Understandably, it is confusing. For example, 26:39-6f-1 (rifle or pistol club exception) is fairly similar to 26:39-6f-3b (target range exception), unless if you try to make the case that "place of target practice" under 6f-1 can be broader and more encompassing than "target range", such as private land where firearm discharge is not disallowed.

 

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-6.html

 

 

f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

(b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

© In the case of a firearm, directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any rifle or pistol club, or any firearms collectors club, for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to the members of the organization or club, provided, however, that not less than 30 days prior to the exhibition or display, notice of the exhibition or display shall be given to the Superintendent of the State Police by the sponsoring organization or club, and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate. Any firearms transported pursuant to this section shall be transported in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(4) A person from keeping or carrying about a private or commercial aircraft or any boat, or from transporting to or from such vessel for the purpose of installation or repair a visual distress signaling device approved by the United States Coast Guard.

[ryan_j 0]

Actual exemptions section.

 

Understandably, it is confusing. For example, 26:39-6f-1 (rifle or pistol club exception) is fairly similar to 26:39-6f-3b (target range exception), unless if you try to make the case that "place of target practice" under 6f-1 can be broader and more encompassing than "target range", such as private land where firearm discharge is not disallowed.

 

Nappen makes that argument in his book. So essentially if you are, say, a member of ANJRPC with range privileges, you can also go to a friend's farm and shoot with your friend's permission. Hell I could even make some berms and invite some friends who have club memberships over to shoot on my property. In theory.

[222 3]

Nappen makes that argument in his book. So essentially if you are, say, a member of ANJRPC with range privileges, you can also go to a friend's farm and shoot with your friend's permission. Hell I could even make some berms and invite some friends who have club memberships over to shoot on my property. In theory.

 

He did? I didn't read his book, but cool-beans.

 

During the ANJRPC orientation, the rifle or pistol club exception was mentioned in passing, without much details.

 

I was like "huh?" at the time, so I looked it up afterwards.

 

The club exception not just for HPs, but also applies to 2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons b (handguns) c (rifles and shotguns) and d (other weapons).

 

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-5.html

[mcbethr 42]

Hey, look kids...Big Ben, Parlaiment.

 

+1.

[ryan_j 0]

He did? I didn't read his book, but cool-beans.

 

During the ANJRPC orientation, the rifle or pistol club exception was mentioned in passing, without much details.

 

I was like "huh?" at the time, so I looked it up afterwards.

 

The club exception not just for HPs, but also applies to 2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons b (handguns) c (rifles and shotguns) and d (other weapons).

 

http://law.onecle.co...stice/39-5.html

 

Yep. Basically it is because "a place of target practice" isn't defined as your club's home range. The club must also submit your name to the state police every year. If you have a range membership with ANJRPC they should do that. If you are not sure, doesn't hurt to ask. They covered this during my orientation.

 

f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

It makes sense because your home range may not be the only place where members go for target practice.

 

oh and btw long guns can be carried anywhere as long as you have a FID card (and they are unloaded). In theory of course but don't think the cops will leave you alone if you walk around with an AR-15 strapped on.

[virpacalis 1]

Even after considerable searching and reading, I remain a newcomer who is unsure about the laws concerning the use of hollow points for home defense in NJ. On my novice reading, purchasing, keeping at home, transporting, and using at the range all seem to pose no problem (under certain conditions). However, legally having at home and legally using at home are two very different things. The latter still seems risky.

[PK90 3,573]

If there is no law stating that something is illegal, then it is legal.

 

ETA: What would be the crime/offense for using HP at home?

[PeteF 1,044]

Would you rather be dead? Use the best tool available.

If you are justifiedin using a gun the bullet won't matter.

[Anselmo 87]

Even after considerable searching and reading, I remain a newcomer who is unsure about the laws concerning the use of hollow points for home defense in NJ. On my novice reading, purchasing, keeping at home, transporting, and using at the range all seem to pose no problem (under certain conditions). However, legally having at home and legally using at home are two very different things. The latter still seems risky.

 

I did a quick read but didn't see where the law talks about using hollow point ammo at the range. All I saw was it's legal to possess while in transport to the range and to possess at the range.

 

I believe that there is an obvious implication in the law that is you are legally allowed to possess something it means you are legally allowed to use it.

[222 3]

The sections regarding "Hollow Point" is 39-3f.

 

Possession is illegal (4th degree crime). Exception is as previously discussed.

Use is not listed in section.

 

Whereas use is not listed as a crime,

and possession is covered under exception,

does that answer your question?

 

 

http://law.onecle.co...stice/39-3.html

 

 

f. Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and © is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

[BigHayden 77]

Think outside the box. If one was to murder someone with HPs while they are hanging targets at a range, what would be the charge besides homicide? If one was carrying their loaded handgun while tending their basement cannabis facility, what other crime was committed? HP POSSESSION is legal anywhere there is an exemption for it. AFAIK, there is no statute forbidding the USE of HPs, anywhere.

 

So if you have to shoot someone with HP ammo, make sure you empty your gun, lest you be in possession of HP bullets.

 

If there is no law stating that something is illegal, then it is legal.

 

Which is exactly why our firearms laws start out by stating that possession of a firearm is a crime, except...

 

Affirmative defenses have their place, i.e. self defense as an affirmative defense for homicide, but they have no place in laws governing possession of anything.

[Bob2222 317]

3.A person going directly to a target range, and;

 

 

When moving from one NJ residence to another -- and moving HPs (including those 500-felony bricks of 22LR) would one need to divert to a range that's open to the public and one's a member of, or will any target range do? There is a sporting clays range about a mile from my house, but the nearest pistol range is about 15 miles away.

 

Besides New Jersey and Louisiana, is there any other state that uses Napoleonic law? (Presumed guilty until proven innocent.)

 

(I realize this is an internet forum!)

[vladtepes 1,060]

When moving from one NJ residence to another -- and moving HPs (including those 500-felony bricks of 22LR) would one need to divert to a range that's open to the public and one's a member of, or will any target range do? There is a sporting clays range about a mile from my house, but the nearest pistol range is about 15 miles away.

 

Besides New Jersey and Louisiana, is there any other state that uses Napoleonic law? (Presumed guilty until proven innocent.)

 

(I realize this is an internet forum!)

 

you are leaving your old residence where they are legal transporting them directly to your new residence which is legal.. IMO that would be legal..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

you are leaving your old residence where they are legal transporting them directly to your new residence which is legal.. IMO that would be legal..

 

The judge in the Aitken case doesn't concur with your opinion. It was the one count he couldn't beat.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The judge in the Aitken case doesn't concur with your opinion. It was the one count he couldn't beat.

 

well I guess if you ever move you should send me your HP ammo.. lol

[ryan_j 0]

When moving from one NJ residence to another -- and moving HPs (including those 500-felony bricks of 22LR) would one need to divert to a range that's open to the public and one's a member of, or will any target range do? There is a sporting clays range about a mile from my house, but the nearest pistol range is about 15 miles away.

 

Besides New Jersey and Louisiana, is there any other state that uses Napoleonic law? (Presumed guilty until proven innocent.)

 

(I realize this is an internet forum!)

 

Any range will do.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

What about possession while engaged in interstate travel with NJ as the start or end point?

[mipafox 438]

View Postryan_j, on 31 March 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:No, they are always also only illegal if they are transported possessed outside of the exemptions.

Fixed it for ya

 

Fixed it for you.

 

They don't become illegal when I am transporting them.  They become illegal when I am breathing, I have them, and it's not a place listed as exempted. Which is 99.9% of the places one might breath.

[PK90 3,573]

Good catch.

[mipafox 438]

 

I just can't pass over the chance to one-up haha

 

Somebody can correct my quote now, no way I'll ever get this insanity 100% correct

[njpilot 671]

What about possession while engaged in interstate travel with NJ as the start or end point?

 

Wondering the same. Flying out of EWR with a handgun and bringing a box of hollow points. Could you get jammed up?

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Wondering the same. Flying out of EWR with a handgun and bringing a box of hollow points. Could you get jammed up?

 

I've done it many, many times and haven't had an issue. But I also haven't had a LEO look at it (at least not in front of me). Depending on the terminal I either

 

- bring the case to the small inspection station on the left wall. They take the key and I meet them at the other side where they close and lock the case in front of me and then return the key

 

- bring the case under supervisor escort to a basement inspection behind locked door. I wait at the door for the key to be returned. (Delta, ugh)

 

From what I've seen they generally don't open the handgun case much less the ammo box. FWIW I travel with a locked 81mm mortar "suitcase" as recommended by "the internet". I welded on castor wheels and a lock hasp. It gets locked with an Abus 20/70 disc lock. The handgun case (manufacturer's) goes inside unlocked with the rest of my stuff. The mortar case has my phone number pen-painted on and any markings indicating original purpose were sanded off

 

I'm more concerned about traveling into PA as I'm there quite frequently and I always carry concealed

 

Until this thread I was always under the impression that having hollow points was an additional charge when a crime was commited with them in your possession. I.e. leverage in plea bargaining for the state. I had no idea there was a standalone charge just for possession

[Bob B 103]

If you are worried about possessing HP's during a self-defense incident in your home, shoot all of them into the bad guy, that way, he will be the one possessing them when the police arrive.

 

If you are worried about possessing HP's while moving between residences, drive to the range first, then to the second residence, since to and from the range is an exemption.

[A-Tech 8]

If you are worried about possessing HP's during a self-defense incident in your home, shoot all of them into the bad guy, that way, he will be the one possessing them when the police arrive.

 

If you are worried about possessing HP's while moving between residences, drive to the range first, then to the second residence, since to and from the range is an exemption.

 

Great loopholes!

[Slowrid-Der 0]

I remember when the brilliant politicians in NJ decided to make hollow points illegal and called them 'cop killers.' The fact is, a hollow point will stop in a vest before ball ammo. If they had half a clue they would have done the reverse.