How is the S going to HTF?

[mipafox 438]

I think the Newark Basin is ripe for some earthquakes. When it happens, it will be hugely F'd up.

 

Last small quake we had round these parts, all those silly college students from Cali were laughing about our overreaction.

 

Hey dumb kid - when is the last time you saw a building made out of brick in Cali?

[Night Prowler 0]

Total breakdown from economic collapse seems highly unlikely. Even a great depression type scenario, which is not at all unlikely, does not necessarily lead to complete social breakdown. We came through the great depression intact, Germany survived hyperinflation (until Hitler started a world war), there is social unrest in Greece but it has not descended into anarchy, and most countries in the world are much poorer than the US yet manage to hold together as societies. Things may get unpleasant -- perhaps quite unpleasant -- but we are one of the richest countries in the world and I don't forsee a Mad Max scenario from the economy alone.

 

I see this as being plausible especially in this country. While we may be self sufficient the country as a whole has lost that ability. The Great Depression was a different time. The majority of people still did things for themselves.

How many people in today's society do you see being able to gut an animal?

 

The other scenario I could see would be a computer attack on the banking system. If a hacker hit the system before the weekend by Monday morning I could see things being in bad shape. Between most people not having cash on hand and the welfare cards not working I could see it get ugly quick. Panic would set in and you know the media coverage is only further drive the insanity.

[djg0770 481]

But whats your practical plans to survive the confiscation before actually surviving the SHTF ?

 

GTFO of NJ ASAP.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

EOTW?

 

Keeping up with the Kardashians: The Movie

[mipafox 438]

 

GTFO of NJ ASAP.

 

 

You Cool, but we are preparing for that. We aint going to be Texas after Katrina x 10. Panic Azimuth is North.

[djg0770 481]

   

 

You Cool, but we are preparing for that. We aint going to be Texas after Katrina x 10. Panic Azimuth is North.

 

Panic Azimuth is whatever the hell I say it is.

 

I'll cross the delaware, whether it's near you or near Pike county, who's to say...

[Tack Tickle 0]

Not trying to be a dick, but there are a shit ton of buildings made out of brick in CA...

 

I think the Newark Basin is ripe for some earthquakes. When it happens, it will be hugely F'd up. Last small quake we had round these parts, all those silly college students from Cali were laughing about our overreaction. Hey dumb kid - when is the last time you saw a building made out of brick in Cali?

[Whiskey Reb 0]

My bet is on EMP.  I would rather have an old fashion nuclear exchange. One Second After and lots of recent articles have me thinking about this. But there are indeed a whole range of possibilities from  natural to political.

 

Bottom line is safety in numbers: I vote for a NJGF meeting place and setting up a perimeter!! : )

 

(bring your food stock with you)

 

 

 

 

[mipafox 438]

 

Not trying to be a dick, but there are a shit ton of buildings made out of brick in CA...

 

 

I don't remember seeing any.

 

When I tried to build stuff out there that was the first restriction I ran into with all their wacky seismic engineering rules. I don't consider myself a CA expert, just a success.

[WVisHome 0]

 

 

Bottom line is safety in numbers: I vote for a NJGF meeting place and setting up a perimeter!! : )

 

(bring your food stock with you)

 

Not a bad idea.

[tom catman 0]

the collapse of the food chain due to no honeybees.its already here.look around your yard and in the parks.no honeybees.the only things left are bumblebees.einstein had said that 4 years after the disappearance of honeybees and bumblebees mankind will starve.its halfway here already.thanks Monsanto for the roundup ,that stuff should be banned worldwide...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

the collapse of the food chain due to no honeybees.its already here.look around your yard and in the parks.no honeybees.the only things left are bumblebees.einstein had said that 4 years after the disappearance of honeybees and bumblebees mankind will starve.its halfway here already.thanks Monsanto for the roundup ,that stuff should be banned worldwide...

farmers order honey bees by the millions during the pollination season. They truck in hives. It's definitely getting worse and is a big issue.

[tom catman 0]

northern n.j. and bear mountain park have no honeybees this year.......$95 for a bundle of bees that don't come home .your neighbor too lazy to bend down to remove a small weed the size of a thumbnail and sprays 5 gallons of roundup on it.

[Night Prowler 0]

Or we go to war with Russia. This article talks about the bee issue.

http://topinfopost.com/2013/05/28/russia-warns-obama-monsanto

[Night Prowler 0]

Bottom line is safety in numbers: I vote for a NJGF meeting place and setting up a perimeter!! : )

 

(bring your food stock with you)

Great idea. NJ would love having us all in one place, it would be easier to confiscate, confiscate, confiscate!

[Dan 177]

We have already seen a solar flare massive enough to knock out the power grid on a massive scale, maybe the entire earth.. But we didn't have a power grid back then in the 1800's... It CAN happen HAS happened and it WILL happen again... the question is when? nothing we do will save the grid, all we can do is prepare to fix the components that blow and have them ready to go. current estimates are around 10 years to get the grid back up and running considering we arent anywhere near prepared for something like that.

 

Of course we can do stuff to prepare and prevent damage. We will have ample warning that the solar event is on its way to us. The most drastic measures would be shutting down the entire grid, disconnecting major components, shunting entire sections of line to ground, then working your way to more minor sections and equipment. We can save the huge critical parts of our power generating and distribution networks, smaller areas may be affected if the power company didn't move quick enough.

 

NASA Solar Shield program

 

That is why a node-by-node forecast of geomagnetic currents is potentially so valuable. During extreme storms, engineers could safeguard the most endangered transformers by disconnecting them from the grid. That itself could cause a blackout, but only temporarily. Transformers protected in this way would be available again for normal operations when the storm is over.

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

northern n.j. and bear mountain park have no honeybees this year.......$95 for a bundle of bees that don't come home .your neighbor too lazy to bend down to remove a small weed the size of a thumbnail and sprays 5 gallons of roundup on it.

that has little to do with insecticides and and genetically engineered plants. It has to do with cellphone usage/towers and how bees can't use the earths magnetic field to find home.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Of course we can do stuff to prepare and prevent damage. We will have ample warning that the solar event is on its way to us. The most drastic measures would be shutting down the entire grid, disconnecting major components, shunting entire sections of line to ground, then working your way to more minor sections and equipment. We can save the huge critical parts of our power generating and distribution networks, smaller areas may be affected if the power company didn't move quick enough.

 

NASA Solar Shield program

non of that would do anything from a massive solar flare. Maybe it would help for a cme. 8 minutes is not alot of time either. That's right a EMP scale solar event will hit earth in less than 10minutes from its conception. A cme uses the grid to get to electronics. But a EMP solar flare will destroy anything regardless if its connected or not.

[WVisHome 0]

I don't think it has "little to do" with those things.....I think it's a combination of it all.

I read a report once that they basically proved a cell phone caused confusion in bees, but I've also read plenty of reports saying the neonicotinoids weaken the bees which allow them to be infected with parasites.

[Dan 177]

non of that would do anything from a massive solar flare. Maybe it would help for a cme. 8 minutes is not alot of time either. That's right a EMP scale solar event will hit earth in less than 10minutes from its conception. A cme uses the grid to get to electronics. But a EMP solar flare will destroy anything regardless if its connected or not.

 

I've never heard of a "EMP solar flare". The fact is, solar flare's alone are only a danger to stuff outside of our magnetosphere as they produce high energy rays such as X-rays. Solar flares are typically accompanied by CME's, which are the main cause of concern on terrestrial earth. It is CME's that can induce currents in conductors (the main action by which EMPs can distrupt or destroy electronics). It can do this by how the CME's high energy particles interact with the earth's magnetosphere, causing it to re-align, causing EMP types of events. Not all solar flares are accompanied by CME's, and not all CME's are accompanied by solar flares.

 

Even with a solar superstorm, local electronics such as computers and phones, etc most likely will not be destroyed, though they may glitch out. There is a possibility of a emp induced surge coming in via your electrical service connection, similar to a lightning strike on your local circuit. The real danger is in infrastructure components like huge xformers connected by thousands of miles of HV transmission lines. Those lines as as huge inductors and would blow out anything connected to them. Thats why with the 15 or so minutes warning that we would have, it would be critical that anything connected to HV transmission lines be disconnected. At a minimum the main power distribution nodes throughout the US would disconnect from the transmission lines. At threat would be the local substations along the path of those transmission lines. If our SCADA infrastructural is up to snuff, they should be able to remotely issue disconnect commands pretty quickly.

 

There is a ton of "what-if" and a full out trial run of a power system complete shutdown is impossible to do. You can only hope the theory translates into success. Similar to how the FAA instituted the nation-wide air traffic grounding during 9/11. They never tested it outside the classroom, but it worked like a charm.

[AlDente67 563]

My bet is on EMP.  I would rather have an old fashion nuclear exchange. One Second After and lots of recent articles have me thinking about this. But there are indeed a whole range of possibilities from  natural to political.

 

Bottom line is safety in numbers: I vote for a NJGF meeting place and setting up a perimeter!! : )

 

(bring your food stock with you)

 

This is an excellent suggestion for several reasons:

 

1) Crossing the river might be tough, and who is to say it won't be just as bad over there?  I have a friend in the Pconos with the perfect place - secluded, self-powered, feedstock and farm crops - but getting through 100 miles of potential roadblocks could be a big problem.

 

2) That said, many of our houses are poorly defendable. Food raiders can access from all sides if you live in a typical burb house like mine.  Easier to have strength in numbers that you can rely on.

 

3) Most everyone on this forum is heavily armed, so what better group to form a defensive clan?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I've never heard of a "EMP solar flare". The fact is, solar flare's alone are only a danger to stuff outside of our magnetosphere as they produce high energy rays such as X-rays. Solar flares are typically accompanied by CME's, which are the main cause of concern on terrestrial earth. It is CME's that can induce currents in conductors (the main action by which EMPs can distrupt or destroy electronics). It can do this by how the CME's high energy particles interact with the earth's magnetosphere, causing it to re-align, causing EMP types of events. Not all solar flares are accompanied by CME's, and not all CME's are accompanied by solar flares.

 

Even with a solar superstorm, local electronics such as computers and phones, etc most likely will not be destroyed, though they may glitch out. There is a possibility of a emp induced surge coming in via your electrical service connection, similar to a lightning strike on your local circuit. The real danger is in infrastructure components like huge xformers connected by thousands of miles of HV transmission lines. Those lines as as huge inductors and would blow out anything connected to them. Thats why with the 15 or so minutes warning that we would have, it would be critical that anything connected to HV transmission lines be disconnected. At a minimum the main power distribution nodes throughout the US would disconnect from the transmission lines. At threat would be the local substations along the path of those transmission lines. If our SCADA infrastructural is up to snuff, they should be able to remotely issue disconnect commands pretty quickly.

 

There is a ton of "what-if" and a full out trial run of a power system complete shutdown is impossible to do. You can only hope the theory translates into success. Similar to how the FAA instituted the nation-wide air traffic grounding during 9/11. They never tested it outside the classroom, but it worked like a charm.

the sun produces both EMPs and CMEs which are created differently. A CME is just that, but solar flares do create EMPs they are just deflected by the earth. Get one big enough and its game over. They hit the earth 24/7. Just like charged particles from a CME.

 

A big enough CME causes charged particles to hit earth and cause issues with the grid only. a big enough solar flare or multiple simultaneous solar flares can cause a big enough EMP to knock out everything. A CME is more likely IMO. As we see bigs ones all the time.

[10X 3,307]

the collapse of the food chain due to no honeybees.its already here.look around your yard and in the parks.no honeybees.the only things left are bumblebees.einstein had said that 4 years after the disappearance of honeybees and bumblebees mankind will starve.its halfway here already.thanks Monsanto for the roundup ,that stuff should be banned worldwide...

 

Roundup is a herbicide, not implicated in honeybee deaths.   You're thinking of the neonicotinoid insecticides, which may be implicated.

[Dan 177]

the sun produces both EMPs and CMEs which are created differently. A CME is just that, but solar flares do create EMPs they are just deflected by the earth. Get one big enough and its game over. They hit the earth 24/7. Just like charged particles from a CME.

 

A big enough CME causes charged particles to hit earth and cause issues with the grid only. a big enough solar flare or multiple simultaneous solar flares can cause a big enough EMP to knock out everything. A CME is more likely IMO. As we see bigs ones all the time.

Interesting, I'll have to look into that.

[jackandjill 683]

I believe first and foremost challenge in any SHTF scenario is going to be about surviving the local firearm confiscation, specially in places such as NJ.

GTFO NJ may not be an option depending on type of scenario.  Regardless of where the like minded folks are going to gather to defend, are those places/organizations psychologically strong enough to resist local confiscation orders ?

 

Reading about Katrina incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms), it worries me to read loaded terms such as "Insurrection Act" and attitude of local powers - "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.".

 

I am aware of "Disaster_Recovery_Personal_Protection_Act_of_2006" that is supposedly provide protection against such confiscation. But something tells me NJ folks with fully ignore it with their "screw them first and deal with it later" attitude.

 

Anyone aware of any NJ law that is would help firearm owners in such scenarios ?  And what about not transporting firearms outside the exemptions in such scenario ?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I don't think it has "little to do" with those things.....I think it's a combination of it all.

 

I read a report once that they basically proved a cell phone caused confusion in bees, but I've also read plenty of reports saying the neonicotinoids weaken the bees which allow them to be infected with parasites.

i agree It's all relative. But them not returning home is a factor of being lost, not sick. The rest most definitely effects population numbers and makes it very difficult to sustain colonies.

[Whiskey Reb 0]

I believe first and foremost challenge in any SHTF scenario is going to be about surviving the local firearm confiscation, specially in places such as NJ.

GTFO NJ may not be an option depending on type of scenario.  Regardless of where the like minded folks are going to gather to defend, are those places/organizations psychologically strong enough to resist local confiscation orders ?

 

Reading about Katrina incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms), it worries me to read loaded terms such as "Insurrection Act" and attitude of local powers - "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.".

 

I am aware of "Disaster_Recovery_Personal_Protection_Act_of_2006" that is supposedly provide protection against such confiscation. But something tells me NJ folks with fully ignore it with their "screw them first and deal with it later" attitude.

 

Anyone aware of any NJ law that is would help firearm owners in such scenarios ?  And what about not transporting firearms outside the exemptions in such scenario ?

I agree in a Katrina scenario that may very well be an issue. But in a full blown out emp attack or other long term grid breakdown I believe confiscation will be the least of our worries.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I agree in a Katrina scenario that may very well be an issue. But in a full blown out emp attack or other long term grid breakdown I believe confiscation will be the least of our worries.

exactly how are they going to do anything with out the grid up?

[jackandjill 683]

I agree in a Katrina scenario that may very well be an issue. But in a full blown out emp attack or other long term grid breakdown I believe confiscation will be the least of our worries.

Social events (and their sequence) will probably be similar with emp too. With grid out of  commission, lights out, no gas to pump etc , wide spread looting will probably kickin pretty soon.  Initial response from law enforcement (with all good intentions) will be to confiscate, including possibility of declaring all FPID invalid and firearm ownership and possession as "ineligible" activity, hence suspended.

 

Short term or long term, once basic ways of defending in chaos is taken , everyone (specially law abiding citizens) will be sitting ducks for the real thugs and physically powerful to rampage through.

[WVisHome 0]

I've heard mention of this Katrina confiscation thing once or twice.....what happened?