So how do I become better, see picture

[Howard 538]

I'm trying to improve my shooting, but have to admit that I have not made a lot of forward progress lately.  I have spent lots of time dry firing and am "perfect" there   The problem is when I put ammo in the gun.  The picture below was at the range this morning firing my Kimber .45 cal.  The shots in the bottom circle which is about 4" where all the shots I fired at 7 yards, not bad but not great.  All the others were at 15 yards.  A few were really bad - like the low left one that you would assume was part of the 7 yard group but was not.  I think my problem might be that I am loosening up with my weak hand, I caught that a few times.  Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[67gtonut 847]

Howard....... would have to see you shoot....  

 

Let me know if you want to meet at RTSP one morning.....   We can work on it....

[BlueLineFish 615]

Give us a point of aim in the top group to better assess what the problem might be.

[mikeyjones 88]

I'll have to find a link but if you look on cast boolits in their target section, they have one that tells you what you're doing wrong depending on where the bullet hits. Print it out and see what is actually going on.

 

Also, are you firing off a group then checking or checking after every shot?

[Night Prowler 0]

Here is the image but I don't have the link.

[Howard 538]

Thanks I have seen the chart, but really the problem is they are just all over the place with no real consistency.  Point of aim was the center of the top half of the postal box.  I think besides my weak hand grip I am doing just what I do in golf - peaking to see where the shot is going.  My other problem is that I really need to admit to myself that it is time to get some progressive lenses.  I was wearing my driving glasses so I could see the target at 15 yards, which makes it hard to see the sights well.  Typically I just wear plain safety glasses, but that does not work very well at 15 yards as the target is far from clear.

 

Troy is that offer just on the weekend or during the week?  My weekends are fairly tied up for the next two weeks.

[67gtonut 847]

During the week is fine...... just let me know

[mikeyjones 88]

You have to instill in yourself (and it's very hard to break the habbit) not to peak. Squeeze off your group keeping your focus strictly on the front site and point of aim. You will be amazed as to how quickly you'll start seeing progress.

[checko 180]

You have to instill in yourself (and it's very hard to break the habbit) not to peak. Squeeze off your group keeping your focus strictly on the front site and point of aim. You will be amazed as to how quickly you'll start seeing progress.

 

I'd probably agree with this.  There are a few reasons you could be spraying the target.  Trigger control, inconsistent sight picture, possibly even you holding the pistol out away from your body too long can cause your muzzle to swing around.  Could be all 3 or more together.  

 

My first advice would be to keep working on dry firing at home, focusing on sight picture, breathing, and pulling trigger straight to the rear. Something is going wrong between the house and the range. 

There are also plenty of forum vendors that have very good classes. 

[Russell 3]

First, use an actual target with a bullseye. It helps to have a definitive aiming point instead of just shooting at a blank piece of paper. And pick up some snap caps or dummy rounds. At the range without looking randomly load them in your mags mixed with live rounds. Then as you're shooting see what happens when you pull the trigger on the dummy round expecting a live round. This will show you what you're doing differently at the range than when you're home dry firing.

 

I'd also look into a .22 kit for your 1911.

[mikeyjones 88]

First, use an actual target with a bullseye. It helps to have a definitive aiming point instead of just shooting at a blank piece of paper. And pick up some snap caps or dummy rounds. At the range without looking randomly load them in your mags mixed with live rounds. Then as you're shooting see what happens when you pull the trigger on the dummy round expecting a live round. This will show you what you're doing differently at the range than when you're home dry firing.

 

I'd also look into a .22 kit for your 1911.

 

I disagree with the bullseye target. The one I suggested earlier would only give an indication of what he's doing wrong based on their chart. After diagnosis, I would go back to a blank target. He needs to work on precision not accuracy. Getting better groups is more important. The desire look to see you hit a bullseye is much greater than just shooting a blank paper.

[Howard 538]

First, use an actual target with a bullseye. It helps to have a definitive aiming point instead of just shooting at a blank piece of paper. And pick up some snap caps or dummy rounds. At the range without looking randomly load them in your mags mixed with live rounds. Then as you're shooting see what happens when you pull the trigger on the dummy round expecting a live round. This will show you what you're doing differently at the range than when you're home dry firing.

 

I'd also look into a .22 kit for your 1911.

I normally do use a target but today took the "blank" paper as I wanted to concentrate on basics and not explicitly be too concerned on where the shots were hitting.  I have used dummy rounds for dry fire and loading and ejecting but not sure how not to know they are in the mag when I load it myself.  I guess I could ask someone else at the range to load them for me.  I agree with the concept, and often will load my revolver with a mix of .38spl and .357 mag to introduce some surprise.  I have a .22LR kit for the 1911, but it just doesn't seem right in such a heavy gun - it has almost no recoil.

[Russell 3]

 

I disagree with the bullseye target. The one I suggested earlier would only give an indication of what he's doing wrong based on their chart. After diagnosis, I would go back to a blank target. He needs to work on accuracy not precision. Getting better groups is more important. The desire look to see you hit a bullseye is much greater than just shooting a blank paper.

When practicing your accuracy and trying to shoot a tight group you use a blank piece of paper? It's much easier to shoot accurately when you have something to aim at. Hence the saying aim small, miss small. If you just try to shoot at a blank piece of paper you can practice hitting the paper, but if you then put a 1" dot in the center of the paper you can practice hitting a smaller, more definitive target. When I said a bullseye target I just meant anything with a mark on it that you can aim at, drawing black dot on a piece of paper works fine.

[mikeyjones 88]

When practicing your accuracy and trying to shoot a tight group you use a blank piece of paper? It's much easier to shoot accurately when you have something to aim at. Hence the saying aim small, miss small. If you just try to shoot at a blank piece of paper you can practice hitting the paper, but if you then put a 1" dot in the center of the paper you can practice hitting a smaller, more definitive target. When I said a bullseye target I just meant anything with a mark on it that you can aim at, drawing black dot on a piece of paper works fine.

 

You're confusing accuracy and precision. Precision is getting good groups. Accuracy is hitting what you're aiming at (or coming close). His problem right now is he's not precise. The blank piece of paper what's important.  Working on precision is what's important, accuracy will come once you get the fundamentals down.

[tony357 386]

switch to UPS.

[Howard 538]

switch to UPS.

I only use UPS for shipping, I use these postal service boxes because they are free -- I'm Cheap!!!

[Russell 3]

You're confusing accuracy and precision. Precision is getting good groups. Accuracy is hitting what you're aiming at (or coming close). His problem right now is he's not precise. The blank piece of paper what's important.  Working on precision is what's important, accuracy will come once you get the fundamentals down.

 

I understand the difference between accuracy and precision.  I still don't understand how shooting at a blank target will help with precision.  It will be hard to have the same POA on every shot without a definitive bullseye or mark on the target to aim at.  For example, take a large blank piece of paper/cardboard, say 3'x3' and put it at 25 yards (far enough that you can't see the bullet holes).  Try to shoot a 10 shot group at the center of the large, blank piece of paper.  Now put a 3" black circle on the center of the target and shoot another group aiming at the bullseye.  The second group will definitely be better because you're able to aim at the exact same spot every time, instead of just aiming somewhere around the center of a large, blank target.

 

Shooting at a blank target does have some uses.  For example, it can help you learn to focus on the front sight as you won't be distracted by the bullseye.  But I don't think it's the way to go when trying to shoot tight groups.

 

Howard, at the range take say 10 live round and 4 dummy rounds and mix them all together in a pile.  Without looking down at the rounds load up 2 of your 1911 mags and load one in the gun.  Then when you're shooting you won't know if you're going to get a live round or a dummy round next.  This will help you diagnose what you're doing wrong because as you noted, when you dry fire at home everything looks good, but when at the range you're doing something differently.

 

If you have developed a flinch the .22 kit should help as you're less likely to flinch with the low recoiling .22. 

[Howard 538]

Every once in a while I like to use the blank sheet so I am not concentrating on my "score".  Basically I take the first shot aiming at the center, or what ever I choose to aim for and then follow up by aiming at that hole.  So, there is something to aim at just not a bullseye. 

 

I generally only load about three rounds in a magazine and then take stock of what I am doing.  I do like your idea of the dummy rounds in a bunch of mags, that way I won't know which one is loaded with which rounds - good idea.  The funny thing is that when I dry fire at home I hold the gun rock steady, I can balance a penny or empty .22 round on the front sight and it won't move when I fire.  At the range I notice that the gun is not steady and have not been able to figure out why.  Maybe its just cause I know its going to go bang, but I am not sure.

[checko 180]

Every once in a while I like to use the blank sheet so I am not concentrating on my "score". Basically I take the first shot aiming at the center, or what ever I choose to aim for and then follow up by aiming at that hole. So, there is something to aim at just not a bullseye.

 

I generally only load about three rounds in a magazine and then take stock of what I am doing. I do like your idea of the dummy rounds in a bunch of mags, that way I won't know which one is loaded with which rounds - good idea. The funny thing is that when I dry fire at home I hold the gun rock steady, I can balance a penny or empty .22 round on the front sight and it won't move when I fire. At the range I notice that the gun is not steady and have not been able to figure out why. Maybe its just cause I know its going to go bang, but I am not sure.

The problem with following the bullet hole is that if your sights aren't dead on bawls accurate, you'll be chasing a moving hole with every shot. That's why you shoot a 3-5 round group first when sighting in a rifle.

 

I take the snap caps to the range, mix one in with a few live bullets in my hand and load my mag without looking. Should be easy with a single stack. You won't see which number the snap is in so it will be a surprise.

 

What may help you is something I tried when starting out:

Hold your pistol at low ready, take your sight picture, pull the trigger to the rear slowly till first resistance, break the trigger and hold to rear after firing, lower pistol to low ready and release trigger, deep breath and relax.

 

Rinse, repeat.

[Soju 153]

You're confusing accuracy and precision. Precision is getting good groups. Accuracy is hitting what you're aiming at (or coming close). His problem right now is he's not precise. The blank piece of paper what's important.  Working on precision is what's important, accuracy will come once you get the fundamentals down.

 

He's not confusing anything. It is hard to be precise when you don't have a definitive aiming point. How do you know you are keeping the same hold/aim point without a reference point?...