ACLU wants to get rid of Solitary for Juveniles

[iCARRY 0]

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2013/08/aclu_calls_for_ending_solitary_confinement_in_nj_training_school_for_boys_other_juvenile_jails.html#incart_river

 

this is just insanity, these inmates are there for a reason and its not stealing your kids bike. Most make it to Jamesburg on first degree crimes like murder, rape, armed robbery. They really screwed up the facts on this one, guess thats what happens when the journalists listen to the ACLU and other criminal advocates. So my question is, what do you do with an inmate who attempted to escape, assaulted staff, sexually assaulted staff or another inmate, or is trying to commit suicide? Let them be free with the rest of the population so they can continue to commit more crimes.  Majority of these kids have mental and education disabilities already, drug addict parents, been physically abused most of their lives.  Some of the best care they get is when they are locked up, they call it 3 hots and a cot for a reason. 

[Albanian 121]

Well solitary doesn't help, ever. It is mentally damaging for a human. However there are cases where it is sadly necessary. I am half and half on this one.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Well solitary doesn't help, ever. It is mentally damaging for a human. However there are cases where it is sadly necessary. I am half and half on this one.

if you are in solitary then you are already mentally damaged and you cant be part of society. You also cant be part of a society of savages either behind bars so go to solitary. What a bunch of garbage

[blksheep 466]

Solitary is not what you think. Yes they are seperated but its not that deep dark hole it once was. These children are there for rape, murder, car jacking, sexual assault etc. Most are closer to adult age if not over.

[iCARRY 0]

Solitary is not what you think. Yes they are seperated but its not that deep dark hole it once was. These children are there for rape, murder, car jacking, sexual assault etc. Most are closer to adult age if not over.

^^^^ this, we are not a third world country and this isn't 40 years ago. They get treated pretty good in there.

[heaterbob 53]

i think caining would be better than solitary

[RUTGERS95 890]

it's why I think it's best to just shoot some of these career criminals

[iCARRY 0]

it's why I think it's best to just shoot some of these career criminals

They get shot when they get out by their rival gangs.

[Contrvlr 17]

No more " time out " for the kiddies

[maintenanceguy 510]

California with the most social programs to help felons transition into society has a recidivism rate of 70%.  In Arizona where they stick you in the desert for your sentence has a recidivism rate of 25%.  Don't make prison fun and comfortable, people will just come back.

[bhunted 887]

Better solution... Enforce the death penalty and clean house. There are too many people on death row that have been there for years. Also, no more life sentences for high profile crimes.

 

This will create room and lower costs. Hence save CITIZENS that pay taxes, money!

And our beloved Arpaio serves them lunch of gray bologna sandwiches in BROWN BAGS!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Albanian 121]

California with the most social programs to help felons transition into society has a recidivism rate of 70%.  In Arizona where they stick you in the desert for your sentence has a recidivism rate of 25%.  Don't make prison fun and comfortable, people will just come back.

On the contrary is the netherlands. Low recidivism rates and their prisons are nice as hell. Solitary should only be used if the prisoner is a severe danger to themselves or others. Solitary will not help someone become a good person.

[iCARRY 0]

Jamesburg is the last resort for these inmates. They have been through the entire system before they end up there. Alternative schools, community programs run by the Commission, DYFS workers and programs, early intervention programs, drug rehabs, county detention.

 

They are given everything they need to succeed in prison. They make the choice to use the tools that are given to them or break the rules and have tools used against them. Just like a drug addict, they have to want to change.

[Babyface Finster 45]

On the contrary is the netherlands. Low recidivism rates and their prisons are nice as hell. Solitary should only be used if the prisoner is a severe danger to themselves or others. Solitary will not help someone become a good person.

Countries like the Netherlands are not a good parallel with the US. Their population is much more homogeneous and their culture is very different. What works there will not necessarily work here. Just look at the situation in Japan after the tsunami. Overall, the population was calm and remained lawful in the aftermath. How would that have looked if it happened in the US?

 

I'm not so sure everyone agrees that prison for serious, violent repeat offenders should be about rehabilitation anyway. At some point, a hard case is a hard case. These animals need to be removed from society for our protection. How many strikes does someone get? I understand that bad circumstances, broken families, poverty, etc play a role and that some of these people can be considered victims in some way but does that really matter? Many of these people should never see the light of day. I don't advocate torture, but I don't see why someone in prison needs to be catered to. Violent repeat criminal? I'm OK with that guy not having cable TV or smooth peanut butter. I'm also OK with whatever reasonable precautions the CO's must take to handle these scumbags without getting hurt.

[Albanian 121]

Cali and Arizona are also not an equal comparison. Very different cultures. I happen to agree that violent repeat offenders have given up their chance at redemption. However I'd like to see what gets juveniles in solitary. Youth bootcamps are sick and often should be shut down. Adult prisons turn petty crminals into hard thugs. Not to mention our prisons are filled with people in there for drug offences which is ridiculous.

[Parker 213]

I'm all for bringing back chain gangs and breaking rocks in the hot sun.

 

 

A bit of levity -

 

 

 

[blksheep 466]

Cali and Arizona are also not an equal comparison. Very different cultures. I happen to agree that violent repeat offenders have given up their chance at redemption. However I'd like to see what gets juveniles in solitary. Youth bootcamps are sick and often should be shut down. Adult prisons turn petty crminals into hard thugs. Not to mention our prisons are filled with people in there for drug offences which is ridiculous.

What experience do you have regarding these statements?

[lunker 274]

Qqq

[iCARRY 0]

Cali and Arizona are also not an equal comparison. Very different cultures. I happen to agree that violent repeat offenders have given up their chance at redemption. However I'd like to see what gets juveniles in solitary. Youth bootcamps are sick and often should be shut down. Adult prisons turn petty crminals into hard thugs. Not to mention our prisons are filled with people in there for drug offences which is ridiculous.

California is not any different then NJ other then size. Majority of inmates are gang members. I believe NJ is about 70% of the population is a confirmed gang member. Majority of the population is a minority. I can go on and on with the comparisons.

 

There are 14 year old inmates in there for RAPE and MURDER. Like raping a 3 year old child or doing a drive by and killing an innocent baby in a stroller. They are in there for car jacking with a gun in broad daylight. Can't forget about the 24 year old men in the for parole violations. A quick search on the JJC website and you see 58% of inmates last week were 18 or older. Why are they still in a juvenile prison?

 

What puts them in a separation cell? Fighting, assaults, weapons, property damage like kicking a toilet off its base or breaking a window, attempting suicide. Anything that causes a dangerous situation to the rest of the population.

[Albanian 121]

BlkSheep my drug offense comment is accurate based on statistics.

 

 

While only 8 percent of federal prisoners were sentenced for violent crimes in 2011, almost half of federal inmates – 48 percent – were in prison for drug crimes, according to Department of Justice Statistics. Another 11 percent were held for immigration offenses.

 

As for recidivism...

 

 

The group analyzed full or partial data provided by 41 states for inmates released in 1999 and for prisoners leaving in 2004. By 2002, slightly more than 45% in the first wave of releases returned to prison. In 2007, about 43% of the second group returned.

 

Why is recidivism so high? Some of you have the opinion that prisons in America aren't tough enough. I am of the opinion that prisons just lump all kinds of criminals together in an incredibly stagnant envrionment that does not help anyone become a better person. It hardens them. The idea is that threat of punishment will deter people and that the actual punishment will change them for the better. I do not agree with this.

 

First off it is important to note that the majority of prisoners have low literacy ratings, poor education, and clearly come from poverty.

 

What can reduce recidivism rates?

 

 

Research over the past 10 years has consistently demonstrated that the most effective way to reduce offending, and particularly reoffending is through education, particularly literacy training and GED (Steurer, Smith, and Tracy, 2001)

 

“The most effective programs target such dynamic risk factors as antisocial attitudes, values and beliefs, delinquent and criminal peers, self-control, self-management, and problem solving skills,” (Rhine, 2002)

 

Just throwing someone in jail and making them do hard time while not addressing the issues that led them to crime in the first place will just make it more likely they will reoffend.

 

 

“It is smart to prepare offenders to return to society as law-abiding citizens. If they do not, we all pay, either directly as victims or indirectly as taxpayers,” (Dennehy, 2006, December).

 

My comment on youth boot camps was admittidly too general. Those are different, some are very effective, some are crap.

 

icarry, the article specifically states that kids were put in "solitary" for offenses such as cursing. Hardly them being a threat to themselves or others. Unless of course if the article is lying. Understand this kids HAVE to be released. Shoving them in solitary for anything less than being a physical danger is not helping. Do I agree that they should always be released because they are young? No. I am a youth rights advocate, and I believe kids need to be more responsible for themselves and actions. Including the bad. Rape a three year old, murder a baby... and then release them because they weren't 18 when they did it? Lol no.

[blksheep 466]

The article. Funny how when its gun related the facts get twisted. But when it is something else it is the word of god. Funny people.

 

Just like anti-gun statistics don't believe everything you read.

[iCARRY 0]

I cant argue education, it the greatest tool anyone could ever have, but they have to want the education. In this state, all inmates that are in a JJC facility, must go to school till they get a diploma or a GED regardless of their age.

[Albanian 121]

The article. Funny how when its gun related the facts get twisted. But when it is something else it is the word of god. Funny people.

 

Just like anti-gun statistics don't believe everything you read.

 

Which is why I said "unless the article is lying" or I should have said "unless the ACLU is lying".

[iCARRY 0]

Solitary has not existed in this state for a long time(like 50 years) The picture they used is not from jamesburg. Every cell has a window, a door with a window, and much bigger then they stated. Also they get plenty of attention while in a separation cell. One on one schooling with a certified teacher(wish my kids could get that) social worker interaction, numerous visits from the psych department, recreation time, shower, hot meals. The maximum it can last for is 5 days as per title 13.

[Albanian 121]

Great, they still shouldn't be shoved in a room alone for making a certain vocalization people have decided is "offensive" for no logical reason. If solitary isn't actually what they are doing then I will completely disagree with the ACLU for making an issue out of nothing. Thanks for pointing out the exaggerations reported in the article.

[lunker 274]

I'm all for bringing back chain gangs and breaking rocks in the hot sun.

 

 

A bit of levity -

 

 

I prefer the Clash's version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIzjF25sP8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIzjF25sP8

[greatgunstatenj 32]

if you are in solitary then you are already mentally damaged and you cant be part of society. You also cant be part of a society of savages either behind bars so go to solitary. What a bunch of garbage

Obviously they can and will be part of society because our justice system lets them back out on to the streets. 

The article. Funny how when its gun related the facts get twisted. But when it is something else it is the word of god. Funny people.

 

Just like anti-gun statistics don't believe everything you read.

How many times do we have to hear this tired refrain whenever a post shed's anything less than a beautiful heaven sent ray of sunshine on the authorities? 

 

Any reasonable person should be able to figure out that solitary confinement isn't healthy for anyone's mental and emotional state [and/or development depending on the age]. So sticking prisoners, who will one day be released, in solitary for minor offenses probably does more harm than good. Especially when many of these people have pre-existing emotional problems. Hey, let's throw some gas on that fire! It doesn't matter if solitary is or is not a dark hole in the ground, it is the lack of social interaction and stimulation that is damaging. There is a large amount of documentation, studies, case studies, and experiments that bear this out. 

 

+1 for chain gangs - make them earn their keep.

[iCARRY 0]

Great, they still shouldn't be shoved in a room alone for making a certain vocalization people have decided is "offensive" for no logical reason. If solitary isn't actually what they are doing then I will completely disagree with the ACLU for making an issue out of nothing. Thanks for pointing out the exaggerations reported in the article.

I believe some things were stretched in that article. "Offensive language" I doubt it. Making a verbal threat to an officer, civilian staff, or another inmate, a very good possibility. You can't go around and make threats to people on the street either without getting arrested.