Hollow Point Ammo

[KpdPipes 388]

"I don't know how old you are, but you may not remember this. Many years ago there was a brand of ammunition called "Black Talon" which was coated with a special kid of polymer that was designed to protect the rifling of the gun. The bullet was one of the first "hollow points."

 

 

I've been enjoying senior discounts for quite some time now, and the Black Talon was far from being one of the first. I don't know how old you are, but I remember Super Vel  ammo from the early 1970's! And I remember NJ's hollow point restriction on the books when I moved to NJ in the early 1980's. Finally, not to sound ungrateful, but I'm very aware of all the ammo options out there; I've been posting just to ask if there's been any activism with regard to this silly ban which unfortunately has got some people into some serious legal trouble.

 

WHERE Do some of these guys get this crap from CS??? Jeez

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Finally, not to sound ungrateful, but I'm very aware of all the ammo options out there; I've been posting just to ask if there's been any activism with regard to this silly ban which unfortunately has got some people into some serious legal trouble.

 

 Short answer:  No.

 

Longer reply:  There are so many other issues we have been fighting in this godforsaken state, that hollow points have not been at the top of the list,

especially since most of us can't carry anyway.

[fslater 62]

I'm new to the forum, and reluctant to get into my personal story. I'll just say that I have a lot of experience with firearms. Please tell me if it's not the case, but I believe that New Jersey is the only state that puts hollow point ammo in a "special" category. Again, does anybody know of any past or present grassroots efforts to get this changed? Thanks

Polymer filled HP are NJ legal to the best of my knowlege

[fslater 62]

And to make it worse, it's not even the cartridge. If you have a hollow point BULLET you can theoretically get in trouble. I believe someone was arrested for a hollow point bullet on a key chain. Not sure if he was convicted or not. Nappen mentioned it in his book. 

I'm not disputing it happened, but doesn't the statute that addresses it and makes it illegal address it as "ammo" or "ammunition"? A bullet by itself is neither?

[PK90 3,573]

I'm not disputing it happened, but doesn't the statute that addresses it and makes it illegal address it as "ammo" or "ammunition"? A bullet by itself is neither?

 

Bullet.

 

Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and © is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

[Blacksmythe 71]

Black Talon info I enjoy their videos Even if their information about NJ is a little wacky. I cant blame them for that though. NJ law is wacky.

http://youtu.be/BL6iO2w6dgk

[pjd832 146]

Quote

 

On March 30, 2012 the New Jersey Superior Court, Appellate Division overturned Brian Aitken's conviction of 'Illegal Possession of Firearms' and acquitted him of the 'Illegal Possession of High Capacity Magazines' charge. The conviction of 'Illegal Possession of Hollow-point Ammunition' was upheld on the basis that the exemptions to the charge do not specifically allow for an individual to transport the ammunition from one house to another while moving.

 

Wow I didn't know that either....so what is one supposed to do with any hollow point ammo they may have when moving if they cannot transport to new home?... Leave it with a ribbon for new owners of the home...burry in yard... Call the eod unit in to dispose of?..... Or some usual nj ridiculousness to follow the law verbatim ....on last day of residence of old house transport to range then to new home thereby being "within exemptions" ? Smh

[CommonSense 0]

"some usual nj ridiculousness"

 

 

Amen, brother

[OchoBlue 3]

Quote

On March 30, 2012 the New Jersey Superior Court, Appellate Division overturned Brian Aitken's conviction of 'Illegal Possession of Firearms' and acquitted him of the 'Illegal Possession of High Capacity Magazines' charge. The conviction of 'Illegal Possession of Hollow-point Ammunition' was upheld on the basis that the exemptions to the charge do not specifically allow for an individual to transport the ammunition from one house to another while moving.

Wow I didn't know that either....so what is one supposed to do with any hollow point ammo they may have when moving if they cannot transport to new home?... Leave it with a ribbon for new owners of the home...burry in yard... Call the eod unit in to dispose of?..... Or some usual nj ridiculousness to follow the law verbatim ....on last day of residence of old house transport to range then to new home thereby being "within exemptions" ? Smh

I think you need to go to the range from your old house. Discharge some and then drive to your new place.

 

It fits into the crazy nj exemptions IMHO.

[OchoBlue 3]

On another note, do bullets such as "guard dog" and "hornady critical defense " fall under hollow point or non- hollow point ? I've read differing opinions.

[pjd832 146]

On another note, do bullets such as "guard dog" and "hornady critical defense " fall under hollow point or non- hollow point ? I've read differing opinions.

I remember seeing a scan of a letter a while back from the njsp listing critical defense, efmj and I think corbon powr ball as not considered/defined as "hollow points" not sure if it was this site or not....I did a little googling and this was all I could come up with

 

When contacted approximately one year ago LT Schlueter of the New Jersey State Police Ballistics Unit stated in writing that three alternative rounds to a hollow point are identified by the NJSP Ballistics Unit as being lawful for use in NJ:

 

Hornady Critical Defense

 

Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket

 

Corbon / Glaser PowR Ball

 

LT Schlueter stated that each use loads use a different technology to facilitate expansion and do not have a “hollow” cavity as defined by the NJSP. In the case of the PowR Ball and the Critical Defense, each uses a polymer to fill the “cavity,” and therefore are considered to be Expanding Type bullets falling short of a “hollow point”. While in NJ, be sure to only use magazines of 15 rounds or less capacity

[ogfarmer 138]

copy of memo here http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/20790-efmj-in-nj/

[checko 180]

Iirc Pizza Bob posted a nj judges decision contradicting that memo, saying any bullet made to "expand more than normal" whatever that means, is considered to be a no go.

[ogfarmer 138]

Iirc Pizza Bob posted a nj judges decision contradicting that memo, saying any bullet made to "expand more than normal" whatever that means, is considered to be a no go.

post #43 http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33337-wadcutters-as-sd-round/page-2?&

[checko 180]

Danke

[CommonSense 0]

Therein lies a big part of the problem; too ambiguous, subjective and open to anyone's particular interpretation at the moment.

[pjd832 146]

Gotta love nj.... So worried about stupidity like legislating the amount of expansion above "normal" of a bullet OWNED by law abiding citizens ....not dug out of victims like the ones used daily in Camden/Trenton/Newark/jersey city/other cesspool filled with criminals which are most likely using the cheapest fmj they can find on their victims ...another law that falls "just short" of "saving the children"....guess the criminals have no "common sense" since all the "common sense" gun restrictions hasn't even leveled off the crime rate that continues to rise.....smh

[carguy3j 0]

Well here's a thought on a "novel" work around, if one needs to move hp ammo from one residence to the other.

You are, apparently, not able to legally transport hp ammo from your "old" residence to your "new" residence, because it is not one of the listed exemptions.

On the other hand, "from place of purchase, directly to residence" is legal, right?

Are there any laws prohibiting a private citizen from selling there unwanted hp ammo, to another citizen? If not, simply have someone, who has a residence near your "new" home, come to your "old" home and "buy" your hp ammo for $1. They can legally transport to their residence. You then go there, and "buy" it back, for the same dollar (or maybe $1+ their gas costs for transporting), allowing you to transport it directly to your "new" home. Its silly, but it seems like it would all fall within the letter of the law.

Thoughts? 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Or drive it to a range as a midpoint between homes.  From home to range is legal, from range to home is legal.

[Duppie 73]

Acknowledging that all of the above is merely an exercise in hypothetical's......I'd put them in a secured ammo box and drive intelligently to my next domicile... there...band width saved. 

[almiz111 26]

I know this is not about hunting. So you probably don't care.

Read the NJ Fish & Wildlife Digest. YOU MUST use 22LR HP for certain small game. Or you are breaking the law.

So the state mandates you use some HP. Normal confusion for NJ.

Just tell the cops (at 11PM Sat night) that you were out hunting!!

[pjd832 146]

Acknowledging that all of the above is merely an exercise in hypothetical's......I'd put them in a secured ammo box and drive intelligently to my next domicile... there...band width saved.

 

As would I......

[ryan_j 0]

Acknowledging that all of the above is merely an exercise in hypothetical's......I'd put them in a secured ammo box and drive intelligently to my next domicile... there...band width saved. 

 

Sure. Just make sure nobody in your house calls the cops, even if they call and hang up... Ask Brian Aitken how that turned out. (not an exercise in hypotheticals)

[Duppie 73]

Sure. Just make sure nobody in your house calls the cops, even if they call and hang up... Ask Brian Aitken how that turned out. (not an exercise in hypotheticals)

By now we as a community have been regaled  endlessly with the unfortunate saga of Brian Aitken and I too have taken heed but the time taken to go through every conceivable twist,turn and outlandish method to comply with a foolish law...... My HP's would already be safe and sound in their new home without so much as a second thought and I rather believe so would most of the same rounds in many a household.

[ryan_j 0]

By now we as a community have been regaled  endlessly with the unfortunate saga of Brian Aitken and I too have taken heed but the time taken to go through every conceivable twist,turn and outlandish method to comply with a foolish law...... My HP's would already be safe and sound in their new home without some much as a second thought and I rather believe so would most of the same rounds in many a household.

 

I'm just sayin'... it's not a hypothetical. A guy sat in jail for months due to this silly law, with a technicality used to convict him, and an innocent 911 call that wasn't even completed to get the ball rolling.

 

Sure, I'd probably do the same as you because I trust my family not to call the cops on me but understand it's not without risk and there is precedent. 

[Duppie 73]

I'm just sayin'... it's not a hypothetical. A guy sat in jail for months due to this silly law, with a technicality used to convict him, and an innocent 911 call that wasn't even completed to get the ball rolling.

 

Sure, I'd probably do the same as you because I trust my family not to call the cops on me but understand it's not without risk and there is precedent. 

Agreed.....but alternatives like resorting to selling the ammo to a neighbor near your new house,meeting half way,going to the range on moving day all border on the ridiculous and I'm sure you'll agree "hypothetical" simply because few if any would even consider those alternatives as realistic.

[ryan_j 0]

Agreed.....but alternatives like resorting to selling the ammo to a neighbor near your new house,meeting half way,going to the range on moving day all border on the ridiculous and I'm sure you'll agree "hypothetical" simply because few if any would even consider those alternatives as realistic.

 

Well, for me it's easy. I drive  to the range (which may be on my way anyway), swipe the keyfob at the entrance gate, turn around and go to my new home. This way there's at least a record that I went to the range that day. It's not extreme but it's an easy way to ensure that I comply with the law. 

 

Of course I'd want to change the law as well but that's not possible right now. 

[ryan_j 0]

And oh yeah, if I move it will be out of this state... so there is that!

[Duppie 73]

Well, for me it's easy. I drive  to the range (which may be on my way anyway), swipe the keyfob at the entrance gate, turn around and go to my new home. This way there's at least a record that I went to the range that day. It's not extreme but it's an easy way to ensure that I comply with the law. 

 

Of course I'd want to change the law as well but that's not possible right now. 

Lacking that convenience, to honestly satisfy the letter of the law I would just fire all my HP ammo in a glorious and expensive day at the range and order fresh at my new address........again hardly viable but legal.

[Duppie 73]

And oh yeah, if I move it will be out of this state... so there is that!

Yeah my next move will most likely be out of country.......