CCW in your business in NJ

[frankv64 0]

I have read that you can legally carry in your business in NJ. The question I have is do you have to let the local police dept know you are carrying? Or get permission to carry?I always thought you are supposed to keep your weapons at home or straight to the range and back,how could carrying in your business be legal?

Just doesn't make any sense. I have asked a police captain and said it was legal and I asked a close friend police officer and he said you have to get permission from the local PD to carry in your business. That doesn't make sense either. I'm not looking for legal advice just curious because no one gives you a straight answer

[AnthonyG 36]

 As far as the law is concerned if the lease is under your name or you own the property your business is on, you can its considered an extension of your property. You do not have to inform the local police but  unless you can gauge how they might respond I would be cautious in telling them.

 

My one family business I do not have a gun in that location due to the need is not really present and police presence is the store during operating hours is frequent however they have even expressed we look into protecting our assets when our window was broken in the night a year back. My other business I have strongly considered getting a speed vault and keeping my gun there permanently due to the late hours of operation and other things I consider making it a target. With that town though I dont know enough about the police there to know how they would respond to me bringing it up.

 

The problem with law in general is although it is written in black and white the enforcement is heavily up for discretion. So I believe in being prepared but for me to use my gun in my business setting the guy would have to have a gun pointed at my head or he had started to shoot customers. Pretty much any other scenario I would let him walk with my money and what not.

[mcbethr 42]

Just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Oh, you're new here ...  Yeah, that's pretty much NJ in a nutshell.

 

Yes, it doesn't make sense, and in a way it makes perfect sense.  You can carry your gun around at home.  You can carry your gun around at work.  You can bring your gun between those two places.  

 

Now, keep in mind, if you if are leasing a business that.. let's say is in a mini-mall, you can't carry that gun out your door into the parking lot (no common areas).  But if you own the entire property or you are leasing a free-standing business you are free to carry, load and unload anywhere you want.

[GRIZ 3,369]

You can carry in your business and there is no requirement to inform police.

 

I know people who just leave a gun at their business. The way one friend handles it is he leaves his house with his holster and mags on and his pistol in a locked case in his SUV. When he is in his lot (car repair business) he loads and holsters before he gets out of the car.If he has to leave his premises for any reason he locks his gun up in the office. When he's done for the day he unloads his pistol and locks in case before leaving the lot. All legal.

[illy 1]

 As far as the law is concerned if the lease is under your name or you own the property your business is on, you can its considered an extension of your property. You do not have to inform the local police but  unless you can gauge how they might respond I would be cautious in telling them.

 

My one family business I do not have a gun in that location due to the need is not really present and police presence is the store during operating hours is frequent however they have even expressed we look into protecting our assets when our window was broken in the night a year back. My other business I have strongly considered getting a speed vault and keeping my gun there permanently due to the late hours of operation and other things I consider making it a target. With that town though I dont know enough about the police there to know how they would respond to me bringing it up.

Like you said yourself, you don't need to tell them at all, so why worry about it? The only way they'll find out is if you've had to use it and at that point, having it will be much more important than the local PDs feelings about it.

 

The problem with law in general is although it is written in black and white the enforcement is heavily up for discretion. So I believe in being prepared but for me to use my gun in my business setting the guy would have to have a gun pointed at my head or he had started to shoot customers. Pretty much any other scenario I would let him walk with my money and what not.

I would not wait until it got that bad. Whatever criteria I use at home, is what I would use in my place of business. 

 

IANAL + YMMV

[Howard 538]

Oh, you're new here ...  Yeah, that's pretty much NJ in a nutshell.

 

Yes, it doesn't make sense, and in a way it makes perfect sense.  You can carry your gun around at home.  You can carry your gun around at work.  You can bring your gun between those two places.  

 

Now, keep in mind, if you if are leasing a business that.. let's say is in a mini-mall, you can't carry that gun out your door into the parking lot (no common areas).  But if you own the entire property or you are leasing a free-standing business you are free to carry, load and unload anywhere you want.

That does not make any sense.  When I go to the range, which is in leased quarters in a light industrial business complex does that mean it is not legal to carry the weapon to and from your car since they don't own the outside property?  Same basic situation you describe with a rented quarters for a retail business.

[CommonSense 0]

Oh, you're new here ...  Yeah, that's pretty much NJ in a nutshell.

 

Yes, it doesn't make sense, and in a way it makes perfect sense.  You can carry your gun around at home.  You can carry your gun around at work.  You can bring your gun between those two places.  

 

Now, keep in mind, if you if are leasing a business that.. let's say is in a mini-mall, you can't carry that gun out your door into the parking lot (no common areas).  But if you own the entire property or you are leasing a free-standing business you are free to carry, load and unload anywhere you want.

I just have to bring this up again. If you can carry at home and you can carry at YOUR business, can your gun be loaded with hollow points? I think all agree it is legal at home; but at your place of business it would not seem to be. Oh, these NJ firearms laws! I'm getting a headache...

[liquidskin 3]

I just have to bring this up again. If you can carry at home and you can carry at YOUR business, can your gun be loaded with hollow points? I think all agree it is legal at home; but at your place of business it would not seem to be. Oh, these NJ firearms laws! I'm getting a headache...

Of course it can be

 

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[leadunderpressure 52]

If your job is a hot dog cart, taxi or car service, can you carry while at work? Does the business include those businesses that are mobile?

 

 

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[olderguy 0]

While it might be a good idea to check this with an attorney; if your business is in a mini-mall; and it is your business and you are the lessee; you can carry IN YOUR BUSINESS.

 

It would not be legal to leave the store carrying your weapon and enter the common area and you would need to transport it to and from your business as you would to the range.

[mcbethr 42]

The common area is the key.  If I live in an apartment, I can carry in my apartment, but I can't go check the mailbox with my gun.

 

 

 

When I go to the range, which is in leased quarters in a light industrial business complex does that mean it is not legal to carry the weapon to and from your car since they don't own the outside property?

 

Depends.  If you mean "carry" as in bring it to and from in a locked container, yes.  That is okay.  On your hip?  Well, I would say that if the range owns the property and parking lot, yes.  If they don't then no.

 

Yes, you can have hollow points at your place of business.  You can carry them at your place of business.  But if you transport them to and from, they fall under the same exemptions as a handgun.

[frankv64 0]

So leaving your gun at your business all the time is legal also? Of course it would be in a safe when the business is closed

[mikeyjones 88]

So leaving your gun at your business all the time is legal also? Of course it would be in a safe when the business is closed

Gun stores do it all the time...

[Tack Tickle 0]

2C:39-5

b. Handguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

EXEMPTIONS:

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.  For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

[CommonSense 0]

The common area is the key.  If I live in an apartment, I can carry in my apartment, but I can't go check the mailbox with my gun.

 

 

Depends.  If you mean "carry" as in bring it to and from in a locked container, yes.  That is okay.  On your hip?  Well, I would say that if the range owns the property and parking lot, yes.  If they don't then no.

 

Yes, you can have hollow points at your place of business.  You can carry them at your place of business.  But if you transport them to and from, they fall under the same exemptions as a handgun.

 

And NJSP says that a retired officer with a permit is a "civilian" and cannot carry hollow points!  Zeesh... :wild:

[ryan_j 0]

If your job is a hot dog cart, taxi or car service, can you carry while at work? Does the business include those businesses that are mobile?

 

 

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No. It has to be a fixed place of business, such as a store. 

[ryan_j 0]

 

Yes, you can have hollow points at your place of business.  You can carry them at your place of business.  But if you transport them to and from, they fall under the same exemptions as a handgun.

 

NO!!! You CANNOT have hollow points at your place of business. The restrictions are not the same as handguns or other firearms (without FID). You can keep it at your dwelling, premises or land you own or possess. 

 

The relevant statute is 2C-39:3 (2) a.

 

(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

[ryan_j 0]

Gun stores do it all the time...

 

Those that I know lock up the guns in the safe at closing time.

 

But yes, it wouldn't be a bad idea if you had a means to secure the gun. Saves you the trouble of transporting it directly to/from home, eg when you close up and go to deposit cash at the end of the day. 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

 

other land owned or possessed by him

 

Sure sounds to me like a business owner can have hollow points at their business if they own the land, or possess it via a lease.

[ryan_j 0]

Sure sounds to me like a business owner can have hollow points at their business if they own the land, or possess it via a lease.

 

Try arguing that with a judge... the last time they ruled on hollow points (Aitken) they used the letter of the law verbatim to nail him, saying he couldn't move from one home to another with it because the law doesn't say you can. 

 

You can ONLY move hollow points from place of purchase to your home and directly to a range. I'm not even sure you can take it back from the range to home. 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Try arguing that with a judge... the last time they ruled on hollow points (Aitken) they used the letter of the law verbatim to nail him, saying he couldn't move from one home to another with it because the law doesn't say you can. 

 

You can ONLY move hollow points from place of purchase to your home and directly to a range. I'm not even sure you can take it back from the range to home. 

 

So you're arguing that you can't *TRANSPORT* hollow points to your business, not that you can't *POSSESS* them there, correct?

 

What if you mail order hollow points and have them delivered to the business, and keep them there?

[ryan_j 0]

So you're arguing that you can't *TRANSPORT* hollow points to your business, not that you can't *POSSESS* them there, correct?

 

What if you mail order hollow points and have them delivered to the business, and keep them there?

 

2C:39-3 says possession. So it's possession. No, you can't have it mailed to your business either unless you run a gun shop. 

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

2C:39-3 says possession. So it's possession. No, you can't have it mailed to your business either unless you run a gun shop. 

 

This sounds pretty clear cut to me in allowing possession:

 

 

2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him

 

I've had hollow point ammunition mail orderd to my home before, nothing illegal about it that I'm aware of.  Why would mail ordering to a business I own be any different?

[ryan_j 0]

This sounds pretty clear cut to me in allowing possession:

 

It doesn't say business. 2C:39-6 says place of business. 

 

Anyway, to get the law clarified we always need test cases, so be my guest. 

[Howard 538]

AND THIS ^^^^^    is just why our laws are so messed up.  When fairly intelligent people read the same thing in the above post and come to different conclusions.  Why can't we get our law makers to spell this crap out in plain English so that people don't break the law based on otherwise logical reading of the statute.

[ryan_j 0]

AND THIS ^^^^^    is just why our laws are so messed up.  When fairly intelligent people read the same thing in the above post and come to different conclusions.  

 

You don't think that's the intent? The guys and gals in the black robes are the ones making the rules because the laws are vague and contradictory. I think it was done that way on purpose just in case people elected non-progressives. 

[CommonSense 0]

AND THIS ^^^^^    is just why our laws are so messed up.  When fairly intelligent people read the same thing in the above post and come to different conclusions.  Why can't we get our law makers to spell this crap out in plain English so that people don't break the law based on otherwise logical reading of the statute.

 

Why can't we get our law makers to change the law!

[ryan_j 0]

Why can't we get our law makers to change the law!

 

We have been trying.

 

Vote, volunteer and donate. We have two elections this year coming up. October 16 (US Senate) and November 5 (NJ state legislature).

 

And join NJ2AS, ANJRPC and NRA. We need the numbers!

[frankv64 0]

If they don't allow hollow points it makes no sense. Wouldn't ball ammo over penetrate which might injure a bystander?

[CommonSense 0]

If they don't allow hollow points it makes no sense. Wouldn't ball ammo over penetrate which might injure a bystander?

 

Don't go looking for sense; you won't find it.