Loaded Mag

[djg0770 481]

I think someone has been posting while "loaded".  Perhaps it's time to redefine "is".

[vladtepes 1,060]

That's all great, fantastic set of laws you set out above to establish that a loaded magazine, in and of itself, is not illegal.  Nobody ever said that it is. 

 

It is the loaded magazine in close proximity to the firearm, which can lead to a legal determination that the firearm is loaded - THAT is the problem.

 

All the law you set forth above still doesn't get around that NJ doesn't define what "loaded firearm" means, and many states have determined that "loaded firearm" includes a firearm with a loaded magazine in close proximity.  Including every state that borders NJ.

 

In NY, a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, is considered to be a loaded firearm under the law.

 

In PA, a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, such as in the same bag, is considered to be a loaded firearm under the law.

 

NJ doesn't even define what "loaded" means.  Which means that the judges can pretty much interpret it how they want, and they are going to look to other state laws as a guide.

 

Given the above, how can you say, with certainty, that in NJ a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, is not considered to be a loaded firearm?  You can't say that.  NJ's statute is wide open on this.  All adjacent states would consider it loaded. 

 

 

when the LAW says a loaded mag has to be handled a certain way.. then it has to be.. because that is the LAW...

when the law does NOT address it.. then it is not governed by the LAW...

 

when the law does not define a word then the word means literally what it means... 

 

 

the LAW states it must be unloaded.. unloaded means not charged with ammunition.. 

that is the LAW.. you can worry about whatever you want to worry about.. but the LAW does not make it...

 

what EVERY other state says about it in the LAW is what matters in those states.. why do you insist any of that is relevant in NJ when it is not... 

[ryan_j 0]

Vlad, with all due respect your reasoning, while it may be logical, doesn't really mean anything because you are not a judge in the NJ court system handling a case where this is a question.

 

Again:

 

There is no case law.

 

There is no definition of "loaded" or "a loaded firearm" in NJ. There was no definition of "Justifiable need" either until Siccardi. Several states have different definitions of "loaded." NY says once you have ammo for the gun in the same place it is loaded. Utah says it isn't loaded until there is one in the chamber. So which is it?

 

NJ courts have a reputation for interpreting the laws as written when they lean on the side of being anti gun.

 

NJ's most prominent gun rights attorney says you "may" encounter problems if you have loaded magazines, so exercise caution.

 

With all that in mind, you're really saying that loaded magazines are 100% positively OK?

 

I'm not saying they're not either. All I'm saying is that we do not know and it might be a good idea to err on the side of caution.

[kman 56]

I'm going to say it one more time, just to make sure it is understood:

 

FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds, that is filled with FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Put a handgun that would accept the magazine, next to that magazine filled with ammunition.  Is the firearm loaded?

     Pennsylvania:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New York:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New Jersey:  UNKNOWN.  Statute bans loaded firearms, statute doesn't say specifically what loaded means or doesn't mean.

 

If a statute bans something, and doesn't go into particulars, then that's for the court to interpret, I.E. what the judge thinks the law should be.  Judges think about it.  Judges consider what interpretations other states have given to similar laws.  And when a NJ judge decides what "loaded" means, you think they are going to cut a gun owner some slack?  You think pointing to a dictionary is going to convince a NJ judge that a handgun near a loaded magazine isn't loaded, when you can put the magazine in and rack a round into the chamber in the space of one second and be ready to shoot?  A guy in New Hampshire had to go all the way to his state's supreme court to win his freedom back.  You think NJ would have cut him some slack?

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm going to say it one more time, just to make sure it is understood:

 

FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds, that is filled with FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Put a handgun that would accept the magazine, next to that magazine filled with ammunition.  Is the firearm loaded?

     Pennsylvania:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New York:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New Jersey:  UNKNOWN.  Statute bans loaded firearms, statute doesn't say specifically what loaded means or doesn't mean.

 

If a statute bans something, and doesn't go into particulars, then that's for the court to interpret, I.E. what the judge thinks the law should be.  Judges think about it.  Judges consider what interpretations other states have given to similar laws.  And when a NJ judge decides what "loaded" means, you think they are going to cut a gun owner some slack?  You think pointing to a dictionary is going to convince a NJ judge that a handgun near a loaded magazine isn't loaded, when you can put the magazine in and rack a round into the chamber in the space of one second and be ready to shoot?  A guy in New Hampshire had to go all the way to his state's supreme court to win his freedom back.  You think NJ would have cut him some slack?

 

 

in PA open carry loaded handgun without permit - LEGAL

 

so it must be legal in NJ right?

 

 

 

 

when words are not defined by law they mean what they literally mean... law defines words when it is necessary.. if they had to define every common word ever used in law.. the laws would be millions of pages in simply definitions... 

 

 

I do not need to be a judge.. or a lawyer.. 

there is no case law stating that a cx4 carbine is legal... but no one is confused about it being legal... 

there is no case law because you can't have case law for something that is legal... do you really think in all the history of time no one has ever been pulled over in NJ while legally transporting a handgun with loaded magazines? 

 

I just can't get over this sometimes.. you literally have NO ground to stand on... 

 

in NJ the law is the gun must be unloaded... unloaded means not charged with ammo... magazine is NOT mentioned period... so regardless of what you are worried about.. the LAW is not relevant in reference to magazines... if you want to transport them unloaded.. go for it.. but the LAW does not require it...

 

if you think it does show me where in the law it states this.. because unless you can site the law.. you are just making things up.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm going to say it one more time, just to make sure it is understood:

 

FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds in your car - LEGAL

 

Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds, that is filled with FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL

 

Put a handgun that would accept the magazine, next to that magazine filled with ammunition.  Is the firearm loaded?

     Pennsylvania:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New York:  LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly

     New Jersey:  UNKNOWN.  Statute bans loaded firearms, statute doesn't say specifically what loaded means or doesn't mean.

 

If a statute bans something, and doesn't go into particulars, then that's for the court to interpret, I.E. what the judge thinks the law should be.  Judges think about it.  Judges consider what interpretations other states have given to similar laws.  And when a NJ judge decides what "loaded" means, you think they are going to cut a gun owner some slack?  You think pointing to a dictionary is going to convince a NJ judge that a handgun near a loaded magazine isn't loaded, when you can put the magazine in and rack a round into the chamber in the space of one second and be ready to shoot?  A guy in New Hampshire had to go all the way to his state's supreme court to win his freedom back.  You think NJ would have cut him some slack?

 

 

show me where a NJ judge ruled on something and sited another states law.. please...

 

"well even though the law does not address this.. you are guilty because NY has a law about it..."

come on.. are you serious?

[ryan_j 0]

show me where a NJ judge ruled on something and sited another states law.. please...

Courts cite case law from other states all the time when it deals with constitutional issues. They cited a number of cases in other states in drake, for example.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Courts cite case law from other states all the time when it deals with constitutional issues. They cited a number of cases in other states in drake, for example.

 

while owning a gun is a constitutional issue transporting a gun is not.. 

 

but again please direct me to the wording in the law that makes you believe there is ANY stipulation on mags.. and when I say law I mean NJ law... 

 

 

 

 

the law quite simply says "gun must be unloaded" period.... if anything siting other state law would HELP you not hurt you.. because it illustrates that there is a need to state it in the actual law if that is the requirement.... 

 

"look at PA law.. they dictate the transportation of loaded mags... so it is logical to assume that NJ does not have that stipulation since they do NOT dictate course of action"

[kman 56]

show me where a NJ judge ruled on something and sited another states law.. please...

 

"well even though the law does not address this.. you are guilty because NY has a law about it..."

come on.. are you serious?

 

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2013/2013057dor.pdf

 

This is the New Hampshire case I referred to earlier.

 

In the decision, the NH surpreme court looked to the laws of NY, PA, and Ohio statutes, as well as NY and California case law that interpreted what is required for a firearm to be considered loaded for legal purposes.

 

When a statute is very specific and clear on its application, then you don't need to interpret - for instance NJ is very clear on open carry without a permit being illegal - it is banned outright by statute - so that it is legal in PA is completely irrelevant.

 

Since NJ statute doesn't say what "loaded" means, in the process of interpretation they will look to what other states consider "loaded" to be.

 

NH looked at NY, PA and Ohio law and decided not to go along with what those states did.

 

My point is you are giving reckless advice here, and someone might find themselves under arrest if they take your word that having loaded mags with unloaded guns in the car is no problem.  It could be a very big problem because it might be found to be loaded, and once it is found to be loaded, possession in transit is a felony.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

This is incredible!  I feel completely left-out!  My Speed-Loaders for my wheelies get loaded prior to transport, so since we're only arguing about MAGAZINES, I guess my loaded Speed-Loaders are GTG!

 

When I go to a Gun Show in PA and buy Surplus .30-06 ammo already in en-block CLIPS for my M-1 Garand (either in ammo cans or bandoleers, or both), are those CLIPS considered a loaded gun?  Did the seller in PA break PA gun law just drivin' it to the Show?  Gimmie a BREAK!

 

Too much 1 dimensional thinking here by the inexperienced, compounded and extrapolated (read TWISTED) into something that a 5th Grader could figure-out:  Breathing isn't against the law (YET).  It isn't written anywhere that it IS against the law, therefore it IS NOT!

[kman 56]

in NJ the law is the gun must be unloaded... unloaded means not charged with ammo...

 

How do you know that unloaded means "not charged with ammo"?  You a judge?  Even if you were a judge, there's more than one judge.

 

The statute doesn't say what it means, which means the judge assigned to the case decides what it means.  Not you.  The judge.  The more vague and broad the law, the more room for interpretation a judge has.  And since there is nothing in the statute saying what "loaded" means in this state, it could be given any number of plausible meanings.

 

That is how it works in the court house, which is why you don't want to get dragged into one.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

At the end of the day, take legal advice from an attorney (e.g. Nappen). Arguing on a forum over legal concepts that they drill into you first year of law school like stare decisis and persuasive precedence is pointless.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[vladtepes 1,060]

How do you know that unloaded means "not charged with ammo"?  You a judge?  Even if you were a judge, there's more than one judge.

 

The statute doesn't say what it means, which means the judge assigned to the case decides what it means.  Not you.  The judge.  The more vague and broad the law, the more room for interpretation a judge has.  And since there is nothing in the statute saying what "loaded" means in this state, it could be given any number of plausible meanings.

 

That is how it works in the court house, which is why you don't want to get dragged into one.

Because the state does not define the word in a special way... Therefore it means what it means....

 

How do you know unloaded doesn't mean field stripped?

How do you know it doesn't mean firing pin removed?

How do you know it doesn't mean barrel removed?

 

The answer is simple... It means what it means unless the law states that it means something specific...

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2013/2013057dor.pdf

 

This is the New Hampshire case I referred to earlier.

 

In the decision, the NH surpreme court looked to the laws of NY, PA, and Ohio statutes, as well as NY and California case law that interpreted what is required for a firearm to be considered loaded for legal purposes.

 

When a statute is very specific and clear on its application, then you don't need to interpret - for instance NJ is very clear on open carry without a permit being illegal - it is banned outright by statute - so that it is legal in PA is completely irrelevant.

 

Since NJ statute doesn't say what "loaded" means, in the process of interpretation they will look to what other states consider "loaded" to be.

 

NH looked at NY, PA and Ohio law and decided not to go along with what those states did.

 

My point is you are giving reckless advice here, and someone might find themselves under arrest if they take your word that having loaded mags with unloaded guns in the car is no problem.  It could be a very big problem because it might be found to be loaded, and once it is found to be loaded, possession in transit is a felony.

So I started to read what you linked and found the following...

 

RSA 159:4 provides, in pertinent part:

No person shall carry a loaded pistol or revolver in any vehicle or concealed upon his person, except in his dwelling, house or place of business, without a valid license . . . . A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges.

 

 

The LAW mentions loaded mags... Unlike NJ....

 

 

Additionally... They state the following which reinforces what I have already stated....

 

The State counters that “with” should be interpreted broadly as “denoting nearness, agreement, or connection,” Webster’s New Dictionary and Thesaurus 625

 

 

 

They state to look at the definition!! Which is what I told you this whole time.... The word unloaded is clear to understand...

Thus loaded mag is not regulated in NJ in any way per the law...

[vladtepes 1,060]

At the end of the day, take legal advice from an attorney (e.g. Nappen). Arguing on a forum over legal concepts that they drill into you first year of law school like stare decisis and persuasive precedence is pointless.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't need to be a judge... Lawyer... Or English professor to read.... And if you simply read the law... It states what the law requires and puts no additional requirements on transport...

[Duppie 73]

This is incredible!  I feel completely left-out!  My Speed-Loaders for my wheelies get loaded prior to transport, so since we're only arguing about MAGAZINES, I guess my loaded Speed-Loaders are GTG!

 

When I go to a Gun Show in PA and buy Surplus .30-06 ammo already in en-block CLIPS for my M-1 Garand (either in ammo cans or bandoleers, or both), are those CLIPS considered a loaded gun?  Did the seller in PA break PA gun law just drivin' it to the Show?  Gimmie a BREAK!

 

Too much 1 dimensional thinking here by the inexperienced, compounded and extrapolated (read TWISTED) into something that a 5th Grader could figure-out:  Breathing isn't against the law (YET).  It isn't written anywhere that it IS against the law, therefore it IS NOT!

There's always one or two in the wood pile isn't there Dave?   The consummate alarmist able to quote Nappen verbatim with enough time and energy to not only interpret non existent laws but a almost mystical ability to foresee judicial prejudice when ruling on non existent laws. A cool but perhaps unnecessary talent.

[kman 56]

This is incredible!  I feel completely left-out!  My Speed-Loaders for my wheelies get loaded prior to transport, so since we're only arguing about MAGAZINES, I guess my loaded Speed-Loaders are GTG!

 

When I go to a Gun Show in PA and buy Surplus .30-06 ammo already in en-block CLIPS for my M-1 Garand (either in ammo cans or bandoleers, or both), are those CLIPS considered a loaded gun?  Did the seller in PA break PA gun law just drivin' it to the Show?  Gimmie a BREAK!

 

Too much 1 dimensional thinking here by the inexperienced, compounded and extrapolated (read TWISTED) into something that a 5th Grader could figure-out:  Breathing isn't against the law (YET).  It isn't written anywhere that it IS against the law, therefore it IS NOT!

 

Speed loaders with ammunition in them that are in proximity to an empty revolver (for instance, in the same bag) might very well lead a judge to conclude that the revolver was loaded, as in NY "loaded" includes a situation where a firearm is in proximity to ammunition and could be made ready to fire quickly.  And if the revolver was found to be loaded, then your travel exemption is blown and you'd be committing a felony in NJ by being in possession of it.  That's what happened to the guy in New Hampshire.

 

Loaded garand clips aren't illegal, as I said before it's not the magazine (or clip) that is the problem.  It is when it is near the gun, the gun might be considered to be loaded, and if it is considered to be loaded, your travel exemption is blown. 

 

A loaded garand clip in a gun case that has a M1 Garand in it - is that a loaded M1 Garand?  In NY and PA it wouldn't be, because the laws we are discussing in those states definining what "loaded" means only apply to pistols and revolvers.  In NJ, possession of a loaded rifle outside of home, range or hunting is a felony, so I'd be concerned having the garand clips charged and in the same case as a Garand. You take a risk if you have that.

 

A car with no M1 Garand in it, and three thousand rounds of ammo in enblocs?  No problem in NJ.  Can't be a loaded rifle if there's no rifle!

 

A car with a M1 Garand in the trunk, and a lot of ammo in enblocs in the back seat?  Probably not a problem - how can you say the gun is loaded when you have to take the stuff out of the back seat, open the trunk, open a case, etc...

 

Holding a M1 Garand in one hand, and a charged enbloc in another?  Now you are really pushing it.  A judge in NJ could rule that the M1 Garand was loaded, just as New Hampshire found that Mr. Dor's pistol was loaded (until he appealed his conviction), because the loaded magazine was right there and ready to put in.

[vladtepes 1,060]

What we have learned in this thread....

 

In some states a loaded mag by definition of LAW might be considered a loaded gun...

In NJ the is no law requiring you to do anything with loaded mags... The gun just has to be unloaded...

Some people are terrified to break laws that don't exist...

[vladtepes 1,060]

Speed loaders with ammunition in them that are in proximity to an empty revolver (for instance, in the same bag) might very well lead a judge to conclude that the revolver was loaded, as in NY "loaded" includes a situation where a firearm is in proximity to ammunition and could be made ready to fire quickly.  And if the revolver was found to be loaded, then your travel exemption is blown and you'd be committing a felony in NJ by being in possession of it.  That's what happened to the guy in New Hampshire.

 

Loaded garand clips aren't illegal, as I said before it's not the magazine (or clip) that is the problem.  It is when it is near the gun, the gun might be considered to be loaded, and if it is considered to be loaded, your travel exemption is blown. 

 

A loaded garand clip in a gun case that has a M1 Garand in it - is that a loaded M1 Garand?  In NY and PA it wouldn't be, because the laws we are discussing in those states definining what "loaded" means only apply to pistols and revolvers.  In NJ, possession of a loaded rifle outside of home, range or hunting is a felony, so I'd be concerned having the garand clips charged and in the same case as a Garand. You take a risk if you have that.

 

A car with no M1 Garand in it, and three thousand rounds of ammo in enblocs?  No problem in NJ.  Can't be a loaded rifle if there's no rifle!

 

A car with a M1 Garand in the trunk, and a lot of ammo in enblocs in the back seat?  Probably not a problem - how can you say the gun is loaded when you have to take the stuff out of the back seat, open the trunk, open a case, etc...

 

Holding a M1 Garand in one hand, and a charged enbloc in another?  Now you are really pushing it.  A judge in NJ could rule that the M1 Garand was loaded, just as New Hampshire found that Mr. Dor's pistol was loaded, because the loaded magazine was right there and ready to put in.

How do you know loaded mags with NO gun present is not a loaded gun?

there is no law that says that?

There is no case law to clarify that....

 

Maybe in NJ ANY loaded mag (gun or not) is a loaded gun... How do you know?

[Duppie 73]

What we have learned in this thread....

 

In some states a loaded mag by definition of LAW might be considered a loaded gun...

In NJ the is no law requiring you to do anything with loaded mags... The gun just has to be unloaded...

Some people are terrified to break laws that don't exist...

+1

[kman 56]

There's always one or two in the wood pile isn't there Dave?   The consummate alarmist able to quote Nappen verbatim with enough time and energy to not only interpret non existent laws but a almost mystical ability to foresee judicial prejudice when ruling on non existent laws. A cool but perhaps unnecessary talent.

 

Ok, here's a test:

 

Take your favorite pistol, fill the magazine full of FMJ.  Put the pistol in a soft case, the full magazine right in that soft case next to the pistol.  No trigger lock.  Put the soft case on the passenger seat of your car.  Make sure the soft case has a Glock logo or something like that on it so it's recognizable as a gun case.  Drive to the range in Jersey City, stop and ask a police officer for directions, make sure he sees what is on your passenger seat.  Legal right?  Unloaded (or at least you HOPE it would be considered unloaded), cased, on the way to the range.  No problem, right?  Show him the mag with all that ammo in it if he asks, all ready to be inserted and made ready to fire.

 

If you are willing to do that, then you have the courage of your conviction.  I don't push my luck.

[kman 56]

At the end of the day, take legal advice from an attorney (e.g. Nappen). Arguing on a forum over legal concepts that they drill into you first year of law school like stare decisis and persuasive precedence is pointless.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Ok, here's a test:

 

Take your favorite pistol, fill the magazine full of FMJ.  Put the pistol in a soft case, the full magazine right in that soft case next to the pistol.  No trigger lock.  Put the soft case on the passenger seat of your car.  Make sure the soft case has a Glock logo or something like that on it so it's recognizable as a gun case.  Drive to the range in Jersey City, stop and ask a police officer for directions, make sure he sees what is on your passenger seat.  Legal right?  Unloaded, cased, on the way to the range.  No problem, right?  Show him the mag with all that ammo in it, ready to be inserted and made ready to fire.

 

If you are willing to do that, then you have the courage of your conviction.  I don't push my luck.

 

First of all, who would be stupid enough to drive to Jersey City without the gun already loaded?  SHIT happens there, so get out while you can, lol!

 

Seriously, how about a dose of REALITY, like taking your loaded mag and empty firearm (in the same case, Waller bag, etc.) and putting the bag in the trunk of your car, secured?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ok, here's a test:

 

Take your favorite pistol, fill the magazine full of FMJ.  Put the pistol in a soft case, the full magazine right in that soft case next to the pistol.  No trigger lock.  Put the soft case on the passenger seat of your car.  Make sure the soft case has a Glock logo or something like that on it so it's recognizable as a gun case.  Drive to the range in Jersey City, stop and ask a police officer for directions, make sure he sees what is on your passenger seat.  Legal right?  Unloaded (or at least you HOPE it would be considered unloaded), cased, on the way to the range.  No problem, right?  Show him the mag with all that ammo in it if he asks, all ready to be inserted and made ready to fire.

 

If you are willing to do that, then you have the courage of your conviction.  I don't push my luck.

You didn't answer my question....

 

How do you know you don't need to pull the firing pin... You don't need a mag to fire a gun... You could easily take a bullet drop it in and fire the gun... How do you know you don't need to disassemble the gun?

 

How do you know ANY loaded mag is not illegal no matter what?

 

How can you possibly know any of this....

[Duppie 73]

Ok, here's a test:

 

Take your favorite pistol, fill the magazine full of FMJ.  Put the pistol in a soft case, the full magazine right in that soft case next to the pistol.  No trigger lock.  Put the soft case on the passenger seat of your car.  Make sure the soft case has a Glock logo or something like that on it so it's recognizable as a gun case.  Drive to the range in Jersey City, stop and ask a police officer for directions, make sure he sees what is on your passenger seat.  Legal right?  Unloaded, cased, on the way to the range.  No problem, right?  Show him the mag with all that ammo in it, ready to be inserted and made ready to fire.

 

If you are willing to do that, then you have the courage of your conviction.  I don't push my luck.

Now you're just being myopic and childish...the issue being discussed is not how to goad law enforcement but if a loaded mag transported in accordance to NJ laws is is considered a loaded firearm. I've read in just about all your post about what COULD happen if some one is stopped in NJ or what a judge COULD rule if some one is brought in front of the court and what penalties COULD be levied against some one is if it every gets to that stage in what has proved to be all speculation on solely YOUR part.

Instead of citing a speculative and totally unproven hypothesis in order to appear somehow tuned in....show me evidence to support such a scenario in NJ and I'll concede the point ...until then you're just talking out of your ass.

[PK90 3,573]

I've said it before and this thread proves it, "NJ gun owners are their worst enemy."

 

Many of us here agree 100% to what vladtepes and others are saying, but we're too tired, way too tired, to constantly put it into words.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The fact is in NJ based on the law... It is just as reasonable to assume ALL guns must have firing pins removed prior to transport as it is to assume a loaded mag is a loaded gun....

 

There is no factual information to support either claim...

[kman 56]

That's right, all I am saying is COULD be a problem.

 

You are saying absolutely, positively, no way on earth could a loaded magazine be a problem in this state.  And that is really encouraging people to take a risk.

 

I am saying that it could very easily be a problem here, and you could very easily be under arrest, and have that arrest stick, and that is why Evan Nappen himself said it could be a problem.

 

We are talking about a felony here - serious problems.  So acknowledging the possibility of it being a problem is the smart thing to do here.

[vladtepes 1,060]

"NJ gun owners are their worst enemy."

This....

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Now you're just being myopic and childish...the issue being discussed is not how to goad law enforcement but if a loaded mag transported in accordance to NJ laws is is considered a loaded firearm. I've read in just about all your post about what COULD happen if some one is stopped in NJ or what a judge COULD rule if some one is brought in front of the court and what penalties COULD be levied against some one is if it every gets to that stage in what has proved to be all speculation on solely YOUR part.

Instead of citing a speculative and totally unproven hypothesis in order to appear somehow tuned in....show me evidence to support such a scenario in NJ and I'll concede the point ...until then you're just talking out of your ass.

 

O-K, SHIT just got REAL!  And my drink just got sprayed onto the 'puter screen, lol!  You're very entertaining tonight Eddie!

[vladtepes 1,060]

That's right, all I am saying is COULD be a problem.

 

You are saying absolutely, positively, no way on earth could a loaded magazine be a problem in this state.  And that is really encouraging people to take a risk.

 

I am saying that it could very easily be a problem here, and you could very easily be under arrest, and have that arrest stick, and that is why Evan Nappen himself said it could be a problem.

 

We are talking about a felony here - serious problems.  So acknowledging the possibility of it being a problem is the smart thing to do here.

How do you know that the ammo does not have to be locked up....

 

A single bullet can be placed in a gun and fired (without a mag)

A loaded mag can be loaded in a gun and fired...

 

They both net a functioning gun... Since the law does not specify what are you using to differentiate between the two conditions