Anyone fly out of NYC airports with handgun recently?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Are they still arresting people at the baggage counter, throwing them in jail, forcing them to miss their flights, and confiscating and destroying their guns?

 

I'm heading down to Florida, leaving out of LaGuardia.  While I would love to take my handgun and carry while I'm there, I don't think it's worth the aggravation if the Port Authority is still making up their own laws.  Plus, my GF is pretty negative on the carrying thing, so it probably wouldn't happen for me anyway.

 

I did a search on this, but all the threads are pretty old.  Just curious if anyone knows if this nonsense is still going on.

[mipafox 438]

handgunlaw.us:

 

Note: The United States Court of Appeals For the Third Circuit has ruled that Section 926A of Title 18 of the United States Code only protects those traveling by vehicle and does not cover a person transporting a firearm through an airport terminal to board an aircraft with an unloaded secured firearm in a locked box to be declared and in checked baggage to the airline. See Court ruling: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/USDisCtOnTransportingFirearmsThruAirports.pdf

[Old School 611]

This may get some flack...But ship it to yourself in FL.

[T Bill 649]

Yes, ship it to yourself.  See the BATFE frequently asked question #6 for info.

 

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

[Old School 611]

Yes, ship it to yourself.  See the BATFE frequently asked question #6 for info.

 

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

 

So there you go...I was right...Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[GRIZ 3,369]

The problem with shipping it to yourself is FedEx and UPS will only accept shipments from a regular person to a FFL or manufacturer. Only a FFL can use USPS to ship a handgun. There are those who will tell you you to declare your handgun as machine parts. That would be are violation as ATF requires you to tell the carrier it's a firearm.

[67gtonut 847]

I am the furthest away from a "tin foil" hat guy......   But even I would not bring a firearm to a NY Airport.....

[Handyman 5,682]

I am the furthest away from a "tin foil" hat guy......   But even I would not bring a firearm to a NY Airport.....

 

I would not even bring myself to a NY airport.

[Malsua 1,422]

The problem with shipping it to yourself is FedEx and UPS will only accept shipments from a regular person to a FFL or manufacturer. Only a FFL can use USPS to ship a handgun. There are those who will tell you you to declare your handgun as machine parts. That would be are violation as ATF requires you to tell the carrier it's a firearm.

 

Nothing in federal law prohibits shipping a handgun to yourself and in fact the ATF states that you can address it to yourself with an "In the care of" label on it.   At worst, by lying to Fedex or UPS, they may get upset with you and do exactly what again?  Refuse to deliver your package or Deliver it and write you a nasty letter?   I believe the ATF declaration is ONLY required for packages that you aren't sending to yourself.  Ammo of course would require an ORM-D sticker so you're best off getting that there in some other fashion.

[Malsua 1,422]

Oh and to the original poster, just don't do it.   They would probably allow a NJ resident pass as I believe they check on your recent whereabouts and go after anyone who's been staying in NY, but it's just not worth the risk.

[T Bill 649]

I know of a internet FFL dealer that everytime you but a handgun from them, they ship it via Fedex ground to your FFL dealer.  Violation of Fedex rules, but they keep doing it.  

 

I mentioned this before in another thread that I know of someone who breaks down his pistol, wraps it up and ships it to his neighbor in Florida. PIcks it up when he gets there.  When he leaves in the spring, ships it to himself and gets it when he comes home.  Been doing it for years no problem.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Nothing in federal law prohibits shipping a handgun to yourself and in fact the ATF states that you can address it to yourself with an "In the care of" label on it.   At worst, by lying to Fedex or UPS, they may get upset with you and do exactly what again?  Refuse to deliver your package or Deliver it and write you a nasty letter?   I believe the ATF declaration is ONLY required for packages that you aren't sending to yourself.  Ammo of course would require an ORM-D sticker so you're best off getting that there in some other fashion.

Yes you can ship to yourself. I've heard some people ship handguns to Alaska in care of a FFL by pre-arrangement. ATF requires you declare to the carrier so it's not tell carrier but ATF you need to be concerned about. ATF doesn't say you don't have to declare if you're shipping to yourself. Read all the regs.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I know of a internet FFL dealer that everytime you but a handgun from them, they ship it via Fedex ground to your FFL dealer. Violation of Fedex rules, but they keep doing it.

 

I mentioned this before in another thread that I know of someone who breaks down his pistol, wraps it up and ships it to his neighbor in Florida. PIcks it up when he gets there. When he leaves in the spring, ships it to himself and gets it when he comes home. Been doing it for years no problem.

I think Fedex has different rules for ffl to ffl. Your friend who has been shipping to himself for years hasn't had a problem...yet.

[Malsua 1,422]

Yes you can ship to yourself. I've heard some people ship handguns to Alaska in care of a FFL by pre-arrangement. ATF requires you declare to the carrier so it's not tell carrier but ATF you need to be concerned about. ATF doesn't say you don't have to declare if you're shipping to yourself. Read all the regs.

 

Notice.. the two statements.   Federal law requires the carrier be notified in the first case but is silent in the second.  

 

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

 

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

 

 

---------

Now to complicate it even further...

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html

 

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or    cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for    transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to    persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,    licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other    container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without    written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is    being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or    legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard    any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in    interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or    ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or    operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the    trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No    common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,    or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,    luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other    container contains a firearm.

 

Unlawful for shipping interstate commerce without written notice.

 

It does not mention items being shipped that are not for commerce...I.e. shipping to yourself.  

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

Notice that there are no cites for the lawful activity question. Hmmm.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

I do all the time at EWR (considered one of the three "NYC" airports to the rest of the world).  Wouldn't do it at LGA or JFK even with a signed letter from the NYC police commissioner.

[areacode201 4]

Just don't do it.  I really don't want to be reading about you in the paper.

[brucin 923]

When I interviewed with the judge for my NY carry permit I was asked if I needed to travel through the five boro's to get up to my NY residence. I said no and the judge said good you should never go through them so you can avoid any potential issues.

 

When a judge thinks it's a bad idea it's a bad idea.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Notice.. the two statements. Federal law requires the carrier be notified in the first case but is silent in the second.

 

 

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

 

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

 

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

 

 

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

 

 

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

 

 

---------

Now to complicate it even further...

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html

 

 

 

Unlawful for shipping interstate commerce without written notice.

 

It does not mention items being shipped that are not for commerce...I.e. shipping to yourself.

 

27 CFR 478.31 requires you to declare a firearm you are shipping to yourself to a common carrier. You are quoting from the FAQs from the ATF website which give you general not detailed answers. You are also quoting from the Title 18 Criminal statutes. 27 CFR deals with commerce in firearms and ammunition among other things.

 

Your claim that the firearms you ship to yourself are not involved in interstate commerce isn't going to help you. The guns are moving in interstate commerce when you ship them whether or not you intend to sell them to a dealer.

[Malsua 1,422]

27 CFR 478.31 requires you to declare a firearm you are shipping to yourself to a common carrier. You are quoting from the FAQs from the ATF website which give you general not detailed answers. You are also quoting from the Title 18 Criminal statutes. 27 CFR deals with commerce in firearms and ammunition among other things.

 

Your claim that the firearms you ship to yourself are not involved in interstate commerce isn't going to help you. The guns are moving in interstate commerce when you ship them whether or not you intend to sell them to a dealer.

 

I'm not quite sure I claimed anything other than suggesting that the ATF does not explicitly mention that you need to notify the carrier.  When I parsed all the language some time back, I came up with ambiguous results.

 

It's pretty clear that notification is required for interstate commerce.   Commerce is the act of buying or selling, neither of which are taking place here.  If you put a gun in your car and travel to PA, you are not engaging in interstate commerce.  Why does it matter if a sealed parcel with your property in it is carried by someone else?   It's still not commerce other than the payment to get the job done. 

 

I'm not claiming to have the answers here other than to state it is not explicitly prohibited.   Nothing in there covers shipping something to yourself.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I'm not quite sure I claimed anything other than suggesting that the ATF does not explicitly mention that you need to notify the carrier.  When I parsed all the language some time back, I came up with ambiguous results.

 

It's pretty clear that notification is required for interstate commerce.   Commerce is the act of buying or selling, neither of which are taking place here.  If you put a gun in your car and travel to PA, you are not engaging in interstate commerce.  Why does it matter if a sealed parcel with your property in it is carried by someone else?   It's still not commerce other than the payment to get the job done. 

 

I'm not claiming to have the answers here other than to state it is not explicitly prohibited.   Nothing in there covers shipping something to yourself.

ATF doesn't mention declaring when shipping to yourself on the website but does in 27 CFR as I said.

 

Don't bet on your definition of interstate commerce. SCOTUS ruled in Wickard v Filburn that wheat that was consumed on the farm it was grown on affected interstate commerce.