Best and Worst States for Guns

[Newtonian 453]

Interesting browsing here: http://www.gunsandammo.com/?p=26952

 

Arizona is #1, DC is #51. NJ is #49. 

 

Not enough emphasis on keeping and bearing IMO. I think if you're constitutional carry you deserve a top score (10), shall-issue = 9.

 

The article gives equal weighting to concealed carry and silencers/machine guns. While the latter are important and their prohibition significant and unconstitutional, it seems the ability to defend oneself at home and away from home is a more fundamental right than, say, than hunting with a silencer. Prohibiting silencers is silly of course, but it still leaves citizens a wide range of louder options. 

 

NY, CT, MA, and CA did not get the credit they deserve for issuing carry permits, IMO. How NY and NJ both got a 2 for "concealed carry" is beyond me. NJ deserves a big fat zero because that's how many permits it issues to ordinary citizens; NY deserves something between a 10 and a zero because about 40% of upstate counties grant unrestricted permits, and the remainder issue restricted permits that allow carry while hunting (and I believe hiking, although I could be wrong on that). 

 

If Sussex Cty. were in NY State we'd almost certainly have carry permits. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Interesting browsing here: http://www.gunsandammo.com/?p=26952

 

Arizona is #1, DC is #51. NJ is #49.

 

Not enough emphasis on keeping and bearing IMO. I think if you're constitutional carry you deserve a top score (10), shall-issue = 9.

 

The article gives equal weighting to concealed carry and silencers/machine guns. While the latter are important and their prohibition significant and unconstitutional, it seems the ability to defend oneself at home and away from home is a more fundamental right than, say, than hunting with a silencer. Prohibiting silencers is silly of course, but it still leaves citizens a wide range of louder options.

 

NY, CT, MA, and CA did not get the credit they deserve for issuing carry permits, IMO. How NY and NJ both got a 2 for "concealed carry" is beyond me. NJ deserves a big fat zero because that's how many permits it issues to ordinary citizens; NY deserves something between a 10 and a zero because about 40% of upstate counties grant unrestricted permits, and the remainder issue restricted permits that allow carry while hunting (and I believe hiking, although I could be wrong on that).

 

If Sussex Cty. were in NY State we'd almost certainly have carry permits.

Let's start the succession of Sussex County to Pennsylvania. How do we go about that? Send Trenton a letter saying we're leaving? If you don't like it that's too bad?

 

[mipafox 438]

I think it's a little arbitrary myself. For instance, even though they say otherwise, they award more points for more extensive training requirements - through reciprocity, which is based on training first and foremost once a state goes down that path. More reciprocity means harder to get permit.

 

Second, they don't do a good job of taking into consideration where you can and cannot carry. PA you can carry almost anywhere, most states have all kinds of restrictions.

 

Constitutional carry (or easy as possible), no places off limits (or as few as possible), no state laws on transfers of firearms, and no NFA laws (unless it's Firearm Freedom Acts) should be the four big metrics.

[Newtonian 453]

I think it's a little arbitrary myself. For instance, even though they say otherwise, they award more points for more extensive training requirements - through reciprocity, which is based on training first and foremost once a state goes down that path. More reciprocity means harder to get permit.

 

Second, they don't do a good job of taking into consideration where you can and cannot carry. PA you can carry almost anywhere, most states have all kinds of restrictions.

 

Constitutional carry (or easy as possible), no places off limits (or as few as possible), no state laws on transfers of firearms, and no NFA laws (unless it's Firearm Freedom Acts) should be the four big metrics.

The article claimed that about 50 Pennsy municipalities have enacted restrictions. Not exactly sure what that means. Mipa?

 

I would have thought Vermont would be ranked higher, certainly ahead of TX (no open carry) and TN (extensive training required). That's the folly of giving equal weight to the right to self-defense and the potential to go pfffp instead of boom. 

 

To me there are only five categories. There's DC (in a class of its own), essentially no-issue NJ/HI/MD, the true may-issue states, the shall-issue states, and the constitutional carry states. As far as practical gun rights go you can move laterally within the same category and not much happens. Only problem with VT is spotty reciprocity. As the state becomes more liberal future legislatures and AGs will pursue fewer of these agreements rather than more. 

[mipafox 438]

The article claimed that about 50 Pennsy municipalities have enacted restrictions. Not exactly sure what that means. Mipa?

 

They have no weight of law. Firearms possession law is preempted by the state.

[heaterbob 53]

Let's start the succession of Sussex County to Pennsylvania. How do we go about that? Send Trenton a letter saying we're leaving? If you don't like it that's too bad?

Pa has enough sheep why would they want more. Voter turn out was under 36% this past election. If all the lawfull gun owners could come together, we could have anything we want.

[Newtonian 453]

They have no weight of law. Firearms possession law is preempted by the state.

Now that's the kind of local law I can appreciate.

[mipafox 438]

To me there are only five categories. There's DC (in a class of its own), essentially no-issue NJ/HI/MD, the true may-issue states, the shall-issue states, and the constitutional carry states. As far as practical gun rights go you can move laterally within the same category and not much happens. Only problem with VT is spotty reciprocity. As the state becomes more liberal future legislatures and AGs will pursue fewer of these agreements rather than more. 

 

Cans are also illegal in VT. That's sort of a big deal.

 

VT doesn't have spotty reciprocity, they have ZERO reciprocity. It's just that a little less than 20 states let people with permits from any state carry, and make exceptions for states that don't issue permits and/or have "Constitional Carry."

 

The remedy for lack of reciprocity for Constitutional Carry is called Two-Tier Constitutional Carry. Like AZ, no permit required, but they will issue permits with fairly strict requirements if you want one to get reciprocity. This is what VT should do.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Pa has enough sheep why would they want more. Voter turn out was under 36% this past election. If all the lawfull gun owners could come together, we could have anything we want.

Ok well that doesn't seem possible, so let's move without physically moving.

[Newtonian 453]

Pa has enough sheep why would they want more. Voter turn out was under 36% this past election. If all the lawfull gun owners could come together, we could have anything we want.

I disagree. I think we should pursue jury nullification, survey voting records of individuals whose voting records we already know, yell and scream and lecture during committee hearings in Trenton, promote God-given rights, and encourage more single mothers from Pennsylvania to carry illegally in NJ. This way the guardians of the 2nd Amendment Light in this state can continue to beat their breasts and declare victory every few years.

[Newtonian 453]

Cans are also illegal in VT. That's sort of a big deal.

 

To this relative newbie suppressors don't significantly enhance your ability to defend yourself. I'm thinking of a situation outside of sneaking into a room full of bad guys and waiting for each of them to visit the bathroom or look for the one you just shot.

 

And their prohibition is ridiculous.

 

But if I had a choice between carrying freely without a silencer or current NJ laws with the exception of allowing silencers I'd pick the former every day of the year. The right to bear outweighs everything else, even magazine capacity to a point (no not 3 rounds), by a huge factor. 

 

Ask Mr. Patel about the right to bear.

 

Do you carry with a silencer? Is your primary home defense gun canned?

[mipafox 438]

 

To this relative newbie suppressors don't significantly enhance your ability to defend yourself. I'm thinking of a situation outside of sneaking into a room full of bad guys and waiting for each of them to visit the bathroom or look for the one you just shot.

 

And their prohibition is ridiculous.

 

But if I had a choice between carrying freely without a silencer or current NJ laws with the exception of allowing silencers I'd pick the former every day of the year. The right to bear outweighs everything else, even magazine capacity to a point (no not 3 rounds), by a huge factor. 

 

Ask Mr. Patel about the right to bear.

 

Do you carry with a silencer? Is your primary home defense gun canned?

Sometimes but not always on both counts.

 

Obviously carry is more important than cans. VT is not the only place you can carry. It's one of 47, soon to be 48.

[Midwest 28]

Interesting browsing here: http://www.gunsandammo.com/?p=26952

 

Arizona is #1, DC is #51. NJ is #49. 

 

Not enough emphasis on keeping and bearing IMO. I think if you're constitutional carry you deserve a top score (10), shall-issue = 9.

 

The article gives equal weighting to concealed carry and silencers/machine guns. While the latter are important and their prohibition significant and unconstitutional, it seems the ability to defend oneself at home and away from home is a more fundamental right than, say, than hunting with a silencer. Prohibiting silencers is silly of course, but it still leaves citizens a wide range of louder options. 

 

NY, CT, MA, and CA did not get the credit they deserve for issuing carry permits, IMO. How NY and NJ both got a 2 for "concealed carry" is beyond me. NJ deserves a big fat zero because that's how many permits it issues to ordinary citizens; NY deserves something between a 10 and a zero because about 40% of upstate counties grant unrestricted permits, and the remainder issue restricted permits that allow carry while hunting (and I believe hiking, although I could be wrong on that). 

 

If Sussex Cty. were in NY State we'd almost certainly have carry permits. 

 

New Jersey , Maryland and Hawaii are pretty much the same with (may issue) no issue (I guess DC right now is in the same boat). However MA and CA are also plagued by the gun roster. If it is not on the roster in CA and MA , you can't buy it ....but in NJ there is no roster. So NJ gun owners don't have the roster problem. However there is no carry in NJ whereas CA and MA has carry.

While Michigan still has handgun registration,  their gun rights are better than Massachusetts from what I can see. Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas) has handgun registration, but Nevada's gun laws are much better than California's. Tiny Rhode Island has a 7 day waiting period on all firearms, handguns also require a safety course and the chances to get  conceal carry permit there is 50% across the state. Rhode Island can be considered draconian, but it is better than Maryland's in some ways.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I would love to see some type of Sportsmen’s/hikers carry enacted here while in bear country. It's a little scary walking to my treestand in the dark knowing there are 4-700lb bear that I can't see until I'm within striking distance. I have startled a few over the years in the dark. It's not fun. They get pissed, start growling & jaw popping. I always cock and load a bolt in my Xbow as soon as I walk in to my trail. If sportsmen carry were legal, it's possible Darsh Patel may have lived had he chose to partake in the right to self protection. On the street with a thug you have a duty to retreat. In the woods you are not supposed to do that with a bear or you wind up like Patel. So unarmed human vs male territorial back bear who wins? We found out that answer this past September at the expense of a human life. Maybe next time I encounter one I can try reasoning with boar or sow, that should work they are the dolphins of the woods after all, according to Susan Kehoe, Angier Meltzer & the rest of the bear group loons. I'm going to bring this up at the Sussex County Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs meeting tomorrow evening. I wonder if we could get this passed into the game code, with what happened this year in West Millford. At least possibly the poor kids death could maybe save others lives in the future.

 

[Newtonian 453]

If sportsmen carry were legal it's possible Darsh Patel may have lived had he chose to partake in the right to self protection. 

It's possible. It's also possible that Jupiter will turn into 10 gazillion pepperoni pizzas some time next week.

 

Other wise good post

[Newtonian 453]

New Jersey , Maryland and Hawaii are pretty much the same with (may issue) no issue (I guess DC right now is in the same boat). However MA and CA are also plagued by the gun roster. If it is not on the roster in CA and MA , you can't buy it ....but in NJ there is no roster. So NJ gun owners don't have the roster problem. However there is no carry in NJ whereas CA and MA has carry.

While Michigan still has handgun registration,  their gun rights are better than Massachusetts from what I can see. Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas) has handgun registration, but Nevada's gun laws are much better than California's. Tiny Rhode Island has a 7 day waiting period on all firearms, handguns also require a safety course and the chances to get  conceal carry permit there is 50% across the state. Rhode Island can be considered draconian, but it is better than Maryland's in some ways.

As I said you're home free in the top two categories, constitutional and shall-issue. So you can't carry in a post office, or at a drama school, or inside the chambers of a federal judge, or you can't use a suppressor. I understand why those prohibitions are stupid but from my perspective big f-ing deal. The constitution just says "the right to keep and bear arms." 

 

There's a HUGE difference between NY/MA/CA/CT and NJ etc. though. Anyone who equates those two groups is ignorant. That goes for the authors of virtually every gun article I've read in the last couple of years. 

 

Individuals in free states, bless their souls, don't get it. The things they gripe about are window dressing to us and, truth be told, in the larger scheme as well. They have every right to gripe of course.

[DeerSlayer 241]

It's possible. It's also possible that Jupiter will turn into 10 gazillion pepperoni pizzas some time next week.

 

Other wise good post

PA allows it while hunting, no semi automatic hand guns, but you could strap on your 686 open when you hit the woods.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Hmm PA is only #31

[mipafox 438]

Hmm PA is only #31

And that's not good at all. Look west my friend! America Starts at Ohio!

[RS1200XL 4]

#15?  I guess SC is pretty good for gun ownership....carry could be better and lack of OC pisses me off.  The downside is so many residents own firearms they almost take it for granted and don't get out and vote as I would expect.  Hell so many are very content with just concealed carry.  With the booming economy and the transplants coming in....laws may start popping up....

[brucin 923]

Interesting browsing here: http://www.gunsandammo.com/?p=26952

 

Arizona is #1, DC is #51. NJ is #49. 

 

Not enough emphasis on keeping and bearing IMO. I think if you're constitutional carry you deserve a top score (10), shall-issue = 9.

 

The article gives equal weighting to concealed carry and silencers/machine guns. While the latter are important and their prohibition significant and unconstitutional, it seems the ability to defend oneself at home and away from home is a more fundamental right than, say, than hunting with a silencer. Prohibiting silencers is silly of course, but it still leaves citizens a wide range of louder options. 

 

NY, CT, MA, and CA did not get the credit they deserve for issuing carry permits, IMO. How NY and NJ both got a 2 for "concealed carry" is beyond me. NJ deserves a big fat zero because that's how many permits it issues to ordinary citizens; NY deserves something between a 10 and a zero because about 40% of upstate counties grant unrestricted permits, and the remainder issue restricted permits that allow carry while hunting (and I believe hiking, although I could be wrong on that). 

 

If Sussex Cty. were in NY State we'd almost certainly have carry permits. 

 

On my permt it says hunting/sporting purposes. When I interviewed with the judge I was given a letter to sign that said hiking, hunting, fishing, camping, and target shooting. I keep a copy of that letter on my phone. Just in case.

[DeerSlayer 241]

On my permt it says hunting/sporting purposes. When I interviewed with the judge I was given a letter to sign that said hiking, hunting, fishing, camping, and target shooting. I keep a copy of that letter on my phone. Just in case.

What state is your permit issued from?

[Newtonian 453]

PA allows it while hunting, no semi automatic hand guns, but you could strap on your 686 open when you hit the woods.

Specifically what does PA allow? Interested.

[Newtonian 453]

On my permt it says hunting/sporting purposes. When I interviewed with the judge I was given a letter to sign that said hiking, hunting, fishing, camping, and target shooting. I keep a copy of that letter on my phone. Just in case.

I don't understand. Where do you live?

[Midwest 28]

On my permt it says hunting/sporting purposes. When I interviewed with the judge I was given a letter to sign that said hiking, hunting, fishing, camping, and target shooting. I keep a copy of that letter on my phone. Just in case.

It sounds like a New York State permit. Is that correct?

[Burns 16]

I would love to move back to Michigan they are ranked 28th, but my jersey girl wife would never got for it.

[PK90 3,573]

No need for an article, editorial or poll to tell me how free I feel everyday.

 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Specifically what does PA allow? Interested.

http://www.adamscounty.us/Dept/Treasurer/Pages/Sportsman-Firearm.aspx

[Newtonian 453]

http://www.adamscounty.us/Dept/Treasurer/Pages/Sportsman-Firearm.aspx

It's ok if that's all you want a gun for but it reminds me too much of this state. Only to and from, only while hunting, etc. Doesn't say anything about handguns! We can pretty much do that over here during defined seasons. Plus is this only for PA residents?

 

EDIT: OK I see now it's for handguns. Sounds like the NY State restricted license. How do PA folks use that permit? It wouldn't make sense here because they don't allow hunting with handguns. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

It's ok if that's all you want a gun for but it reminds me too much of this state. Only to and from, only while hunting, etc. Doesn't say anything about handguns! We can pretty much do that over here during defined seasons. Plus is this only for PA residents?

It's only for hunting yes. Non resident can get also if they also buy a hunting license over there. But at least you don't get eaten by bear. I wish we had this here. In PA you can hunt with a handgun as well. We have no handgun season here.