MartyZ

epoxy mag pistol floor plates with magblocks

40 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, cabalrayz said:

they said it for years because we've had restricted mags for a while now 15 rounds.  are you suggesting the rules for blocked 10 round mags are different than the blocked 15 were had.

That seems to be what people were saying for 15s. For one, the Hexmags are easily changeable back to 30 with just a spring change, the floor plates weren't glued, pinned or riveted. Now the interpretation for the 10s are that they have to be glued or welded so they can't be taken apart.

I also know of two other suppliers who were selling 15/20 claiming they were "NJ Compliant", and they had blockers and removable bottom plates, so once the blocker was removed, it became a 20. They were not considered "permanent". No rivets, welding or glue anywhere to be found.

I find it hard to believe these suppliers would sell these into NJ if there was clear guidance from the NJSP on how they were to be secured.

 

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8 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

That seems to be what people were saying for 15s. For one, the Hexmags are easily changeable back to 30 with just a spring change, the floor plates weren't glued, pinned or riveted. Now the interpretation for the 10s are that they have to be glued or welded so they can't be taken apart.

I also know of two other suppliers who were selling 15/20 claiming they were "NJ Compliant", and they had blockers and removable bottom plates, so once the blocker was removed, it became a 20. They were not considered "permanent". No rivets, welding or glue anywhere to be found.

I find it hard to believe these suppliers would sell these into NJ if there was clear guidance from the NJSP on how they were to be secured.

 

Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen? I think it's been a don't ask don't tell thing and by good fortune so far it hasn't been an issue  as to force the laws hand. 

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1 hour ago, siderman said:

Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen? I think it's been a don't ask don't tell thing and by good fortune so far it hasn't been an issue  as to force the laws hand. 

The thing with hexmag versus other variants is that there is a riser and shorter spring.  If you remove the riser, the mag is useless.  

Yes, you could buy longer springs... but you could also go to DE or PA and buy a bigger mag... which is why this is so idiotic. 

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The bottom line is the wording of the law is :   

b.    Render the semi-automatic rifle or magazine inoperable 1or permanently modify a large capacity ammunition magazine to accept 10 rounds or less1

There are no definitions written out for the “permanently” in the law.  There is nothing stated how or what constitutes making it permanent such as riviets, pins, epoxy, blocks, cutting down magbody, etc..

What the state police put out on how to modify mags or what mags are ok, such as Hexmags, is their iinterpretation or guidelines as to what they consider permanent.

As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law.  They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury.. Those of us who are discussing this matter are trying to avoid getting jammed up in the first place.

If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, siderman said:

Caveat emptor. NJ law is the bottom line power at work here not some retailer and the bottom line word is permanent. If Hexmag Inc asked the NJSP if these mags were gtg what do you think would happen?

 

37 minutes ago, Kawi7 said:

If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it.

And that, right there, is the issue. The retailer decided what they felt was acceptable when they sold the reduced mags, because there was no clear guidance back in the 1990s what was permanent.

Does anyone know of someone being busted by the NJSP because the floorplates weren't epoxied on their 15/30 mags?

Anyone?

How may decades have these reduced mags been floating around at the ranges?

39 minutes ago, Kawi7 said:

As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law.  They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury

I don't believe it would EVER get to that point. If by slim chance, a local LEO asks about a mag, and you show them it can only take 10 rounds, that would be the end of the questioning. Worrying if a LEO will be taking out his inspection tools to see how much epoxy you used, or the diameter of the pins or rivets, is fantasy land. Even moving to a court or jury to have it argued if your mag was "permanent" will NEVER happen.

The bottom line, the LEOs have way too many other things going on than to sit there and count how many rounds fit into your mags.

You guys need to come out from hiding under your beds.

 

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15 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

 

And that, right there, is the issue. The retailer decided what they felt was acceptable when they sold the reduced mags, because there was no clear guidance back in the 1990s what was permanent.

Does anyone know of someone being busted by the NJSP because the floorplates weren't epoxied on their 15/30 mags?

Anyone?

How may decades have these reduced mags been floating around at the ranges?

I don't believe it would EVER get to that point. If by slim chance, a local LEO asks about a mag, and you show them it can only take 10 rounds, that would be the end of the questioning. Worrying if a LEO will be taking out his inspection tools to see how much epoxy you used, or the diameter of the pins or rivets, is fantasy land. Even moving to a court or jury to have it argued if your mag was "permanent" will NEVER happen.

The bottom line, the LEOs have way too many other things going on than to sit there and count how many rounds fit into your mags.

You guys need to come out from hiding under your beds.

 

You’re right.. They wouldn’t bother with just the magazines alone... It would only be used in conjunction with some other weapons or drug charge, where a search warrant was used and they wanted to tack on as many charges as possible.. 

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1 hour ago, Kawi7 said:

The bottom line is the wording of the law is :   

b.    Render the semi-automatic rifle or magazine inoperable 1or permanently modify a large capacity ammunition magazine to accept 10 rounds or less1

There are no definitions written out for the “permanently” in the law.  There is nothing stated how or what constitutes making it permanent such as riviets, pins, epoxy, blocks, cutting down magbody, etc..

What the state police put out on how to modify mags or what mags are ok, such as Hexmags, is their iinterpretation or guidelines as to what they consider permanent.

As I understand it, the state police does not make law, nor can they add or delete text from the law.  They can however, as can your local police, Sheriff, etc, charge you with having a high capacity magazine based on their interpretation of permanently. If that were to happen and you fought it, the decision on permanently would ultimately be made by a judge or jury.. Those of us who are discussing this matter are trying to avoid getting jammed up in the first place.

If anyone knows if there is any case law on this matter, please post it.

 

 

 

This is the crux of the situation.  There is no objective standard for defining “permanent”.  

I once used pop rivets to fix the underbody panels on a vehicle of mine after a retread came off on the highway. It was/is a “permanent” fix.  So what is the standard?

In a related note, is there a proper definition of “pin”??

A pin can mean many things. A roll pin with epoxy over the hole could theoretically be pulled out or drilled out. But it seems many mags sold in state are done that way.  

Again, lack of objective standard...

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3 hours ago, Kawi7 said:

You’re right.. They wouldn’t bother with just the magazines alone... It would only be used in conjunction with some other weapons or drug charge, where a search warrant was used and they wanted to tack on as many charges as possible.. 

Exactly... the few cases that ever happened were due to some other BIGGER legal issue, and the mags got tagged in the fog.

So, unless posters here are running guns or dealing large amounts of drugs or robbing banks, the odds are, they will be fine.

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