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Tallday

switching over to 9mm

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Hello all,

My agency is switching over to 9mm from 40. I have a few glocks that I may want to sell to fund the 9mm switch for myself. With all the new dumb laws over the last few years I think I have it figured. Looking to see if its worth posting a glock 23 and 22 with holsters and a shit ton of ammo and mags. I think the laws are I can sell with the normal mags to LEOs but would need to sell with no mags for everyone else? I don't agree with this but at this point it is what it is. is there even a market for this stuff in NJ?

 

Thanks Dave,

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There will always be buyers if the price is right.

 

However, what is right to you vs what is right to the buyer will likely be different numbers. Sellers seem to want 99% of new value, while buyers want to get it for 1%. Do some research and see if real world selling prices are what you can live with.

Then remember in NJ there will be at least a $30-50 transfer fee, and lack of mags will decrease value some. Things like holsters may not have much value (though if switching to 9mm glocks, a 22 holster should fit a 17, 23 a 19, etc, though not sure on generational changes)

You might be able to sell standard cap mags on gunbroker if you cant find LE buyer in NJ

There is a market, ammo will probably be easiest to sell, but you sound like youve got the right ideas.

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I think the only way to know is to post and see if someone wants it.  The market and your selling price will dictate its sale.

As for the mags, you are correct.

FYI- my agency just switched from the .40 cal Glock 23 and went with the 9mm Glock M19.  I did not buy any personal Glocks in .40 cal, but I have two other .40 cal pistols that are tough to sell.  The market for .40 cal is not as good as for 9mm and .45.   

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Thanks for the reply! I am of the mind set if I can sell both guns and ammo to pay for one and the rmr I am doing better then I should be. We are going with red dots so most of my holster wont work trust me I would love to keep the holsters I have bought over the years.

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Just now, The_Matrix said:

I think the only way to know is to post and see if someone wants it.  The market and your selling price will dictate its sale.

As for the mags, you are correct.

FYI- my agency just switched from the .40 cal Glock 23 and went with the 9mm Glock M19.  I did not buy any personal Glocks in .40 cal, but I have two other .40 cal pistols that are tough to sell. 

Quote

The market for .40 cal is not as good as for 9mm and .45.   

 

Thats what I am guessing the issue may be. A ton of places are switching over

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Don’t sell your .40 Glocks. Get yourself some KKM 40-9 conversion barrels and mags - that is all you need.

I have converted 3 Glocks since I switched my agency to 9mm. My G23 and two G35s with conversion barrels all shoot better than my G19 and G34 They have been boringly reliable and stupidly accurate with the new barrels. My converted G23 has over 2k rounds without a hiccup.

Plus, for about 1/3 the price of a new Glock you will have a gun that can shoot multiple calibers - so you can still shoot all that .40 you have and all the 9mm your going to get. Win-win!

You won’t be disappointed.

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32 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Don’t sell your .40 Glocks. Get yourself some KKM 40-9 conversion barrels and mags - that is all you need.

I have converted 3 Glocks since I switched my agency to 9mm. My G23 and two G35s with conversion barrels all shoot better than my G19 and G34 They have been boringly reliable and stupidly accurate with the new barrels. My converted G23 has over 2k rounds without a hiccup.

Plus, for about 1/3 the price of a new Glock you will have a gun that can shoot multiple calibers - so you can still shoot all that .40 you have and all the 9mm your going to get. Win-win!

You won’t be disappointed.

33 minutes ago, The_Matrix said:

 

I thought of that option but would need to get the slides cut and with the barrels I would be in it for the price of a blue label gen 5 mos. But still on the table if I cant get rid of the 40 stuff. I did that on a g27 years ago and was great.

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1 minute ago, silverado427 said:

 Just out of curiosity what was the reason for the switch to 9mm.

I can't speak for why they changed, but the FBI and others departments have pretty much all said the same thing.

9mm

-Less felt recoil

-Larger ammo capacity, specially important when you consider that something like 70% of all ammo that LEOs shoot are misses

-New 9mm Ammo that performs just as well or better than .40cal and even some .45 caliber ammo.

-In general, 9mm is also a bit less expensive.

 

The above all means that you have more effective shooters that are in the game longer.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

 Just out of curiosity what was the reason for the switch to 9mm.

the cost over time in years,  recoil, ect.. better 9mm options for duty in recent years. You know all the stuff people argue about in the caliber wars! lol but mostly money and shooter felt recoil. 

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4 minutes ago, Malsua said:

I can't speak for why they changed, but the FBI and others departments have pretty much all said the same thing.

9mm

-Less felt recoil

-Larger ammo capacity, specially important when you consider that something like 70% of all ammo that LEOs shoot are misses

-New 9mm Ammo that performs just as well or better than .40cal and even some .45 caliber ammo.

-In general, 9mm is also a bit less expensive.

 

The above all means that you have more effective shooters that are in the game longer.

 

 

 

all the above but mostly selling to bean counters, scores going up, and peoples feelings. And The"FBI" did makes it easier.At least that's what I got from it when we made the proposal. the capacity and staying in the fight longer are less on the table when pitching to my dissension makers. They are not gun or tactic people. I use those types of arguments to sell to officers who get stuck in the "stopping power" mindset.

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1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Don’t sell your .40 Glocks. Get yourself some KKM 40-9 conversion barrels and mags - that is all you need.

I have converted 3 Glocks since I switched my agency to 9mm. My G23 and two G35s with conversion barrels all shoot better than my G19 and G34 They have been boringly reliable and stupidly accurate with the new barrels. My converted G23 has over 2k rounds without a hiccup.

Plus, for about 1/3 the price of a new Glock you will have a gun that can shoot multiple calibers - so you can still shoot all that .40 you have and all the 9mm your going to get. Win-win!

You won’t be disappointed.

This is the way. 
 

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1 hour ago, silverado427 said:

 Just out of curiosity what was the reason for the switch to 9mm.

I can tell you why I switched my agency.

On the shooters side of things, you can feel an absolute increase in ability switching from .40 to 9mm:

Faster split times, more reliable with a WML, smaller groups, less “snap” and muzzle flip, less recoil, more rounds in the mag, less wear and tear on the guns and the shooter, cheaper ammo.

On the target side of things, you have equal terminal ballistics. Same expansion, same temporary wound cavity, same penetration depth.

If you ask someone what they want to make their pistol better you’ll hear:

• more ammo on board
• less recoil 
• better accuracy
• more reliable 

This all translates to - I can shoot more rounds, into a smaller target, in less time with 9mm than with .40 S&W with equal terminal effects on target.

8 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

This is the way. 
 

This is the way.

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1 hour ago, Tallday said:

I thought of that option but would need to get the slides cut and with the barrels I would be in it for the price of a blue label gen 5 mos. But still on the table if I cant get rid of the 40 stuff. I did that on a g27 years ago and was great.

Still more effective to just get barrels.

You can get a milled slide for ~ $200, barrel, ~$150, Mags $10-$25 each.

That equals a more capable firearm for less than a new Blue Label Glock.

Plus, milled slides are better than the MOS versions - unless it’s for duty use. Then the Glock warranty is worth more than the benefits of a milled slide.

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24 minutes ago, Bklynracer said:

70%, This sounds scary.

it is. mostly due to lack of training time weather paid or unpaid. Also, some are not into it and get nothing more then the required once or twice a year qual . At that point is when they ask for help and would like to fix all the issues day of the qual.  But I have noticed a lot more interest in the last few years as newer officers come on and want to take control of that aspect of the job.I would suspect that percentage goes down in the next few years. 

4 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Still more effective to just get barrels.

You can get a milled slide for ~ $200, barrel, ~$150, Mags $10-$25 each.

That equals a more capable firearm for less than a new Blue Label Glock.

Plus, milled slides are better than the MOS versions - unless it’s for duty use. Then the Glock warranty is worth more than the benefits of a milled slide.

Do you know of a quality spot in NJ who can do the mill job?

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I used DP Customs last time. They are in North Carolina. 20% off for LEO. I got their EDC package (front serrations marching the back, and lightening cuts in the side) plus RMR cut and Refinished in black nitride, was less that $200. They did stellar work!

VCJKUp5.jpg
UouOwC1.jpg

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Just now, High Exposure said:

I used DP customs last time. They are in North Carolina. 20% off for LEO. I got their EDC package (front serrations marching the back, and lightening cuts in the side) plus RMR cut and Refinished in black nitride, was less that $200. They did stellar work!

thanks! What was the lead time? do you remember? 

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I think it was 3 weeks from when I sent it to when I got it back.

https://www.dpcustomworksllc.com

They are having a sale now until NYE.

Another option is Mark Housel at L&M precision.

https://www.landmprecisiongunworks.com

 

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24 minutes ago, Tallday said:

it is. mostly due to lack of training time weather paid or unpaid. Also, some are not into it and get nothing more then the required once or twice a year qual . At that point is when they ask for help and would like to fix all the issues day of the qual.  But I have noticed a lot more interest in the last few years as newer officers come on and want to take control of that aspect of the job.I would suspect that percentage goes down in the next few years. 

There’s a lot more to it than this.

Combat isn’t the range.

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2 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I think it was 3 weeks from when I sent it to when I got it back.

https://www.dpcustomworksllc.com

They are having a sale now until NYE.

Another option is Mark Housel at L&M precision.

https://www.landmprecisiongunworks.com

 

thanks! wish we had a local spot..

1 minute ago, High Exposure said:

There’s a lot more to it than this.

Combat isn’t the range.

tons more

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I love how Glock perfection = massive customization..but seriosuly...

 

I pick up a G19 in the next couple of weeks  ....

I usually shoot 45acp and am wondering what 9mm ammo do local LEO's like and why 

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37 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I love how Glock perfection = massive customization..but seriosuly...

 

I pick up a G19 in the next couple of weeks  ....

I usually shoot 45acp and am wondering what 9mm ammo do local LEO's like and why 

There is a custom market for every gun in existence. 
 

The fact that there are so many Glocks out there coupled with the fact that they are basically “plug and play” with their parts requiring little to no fitting for individual guns make them the perfect base for customization. 

I like 147gr for 9mm. Duty ammo is Federal HST 147gr.

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16 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

There is a custom market for every gun in existence. 
 

The fact that there are so many Glocks out there coupled with the fact that they are basically “plug and play” with their parts requiring little to no fitting for individual guns make them the perfect base for customization. 

I like 147gr for 9mm. Duty ammo is Federal HST 147gr.

Totally...thanks for the info....

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2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

I used DP Customs last time. They are in North Carolina. 20% off for LEO. I got their EDC package (front serrations marching the back, and lightening cuts in the side) plus RMR cut and Refinished in black nitride, was less that $200. They did stellar work!

VCJKUp5.jpg
UouOwC1.jpg

looks good!

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9 hours ago, Malsua said:

-Larger ammo capacity, specially important when you consider that something like 70% of all ammo that LEOs shoot are misses

A few years ago I had a session with the late Bill Fearon of the NJSP. In somewhat different terms he inferred exactly the same thing. 

And he was in a position to know for sure.

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Prices on good conversion barrels are pretty darn cheap.. Heres on example; i picked this up a couple weeks ago. less than 45$ to my door. Havnt got to the range with it yet, but word is it works fine with the .40 mags and ejector. For a complete conversion, you could change the ejector anyway and pick up new 9mm mags.

BCA has stainless and black nitride barrels, threaded and unthreaded, etc..

 

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-glock-22-40-caliber-9mm-conversion-barrel-stainless-steel-finish

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6 minutes ago, eyeinstine said:

Prices on good conversion barrels are pretty darn cheap.. Heres on example; i picked this up a couple weeks ago. less than 45$ to my door. Havnt got to the range with it yet, but word is it works fine with the .40 mags and ejector. For a complete conversion, you could change the ejector anyway and pick up new 9mm mags.

BCA has stainless and black nitride barrels, threaded and unthreaded, etc..

 

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-glock-22-40-caliber-9mm-conversion-barrel-stainless-steel-finish

thanks

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10 hours ago, 45Doll said:

A few years ago I had a session with the late Bill Fearon of the NJSP. In somewhat different terms he inferred exactly the same thing. 

And he was in a position to know for sure.

I wasn't pulling that number out of thin air.  I read quite a few articles on the FBI switch back to 9mm when it was in the news.  There is a pdf with the full report that holds the statistics.   During shootouts, all LEOs across all categories have around a 30% hit rate.  This is a raw number and can probably only be marginally improved with considerable training.   This is a human problem,  not an individual or LEO problem.   The military hit rate is vastly worse, like 1 in 200,000.  

It's just something that stress and the human body cannot overcome.  Individuals can train hard and do much better,  but in aggregate, the average probably cant ever be improved much over what it is now, except that 9mm does move the needle a little due to less recoil.   More capacity, better hit rate.  Win-win

There may be technological improvements.  An AI optic that allows you to tag a bad guy and warns or prevents misses might do it one day.   Target seeking mini missiles too, although yikes on that!

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On 12/24/2019 at 8:08 PM, 45Doll said:

A few years ago I had a session with the late Bill Fearon of the NJSP. In somewhat different terms he inferred exactly the same thing. 

And he was in a position to know for sure.

 

On 12/25/2019 at 6:36 AM, Malsua said:

I wasn't pulling that number out of thin air.  I read quite a few articles on the FBI switch back to 9mm when it was in the news.  There is a pdf with the full report that holds the statistics.   During shootouts, all LEOs across all categories have around a 30% hit rate.  This is a raw number and can probably only be marginally improved with considerable training.   This is a human problem,  not an individual or LEO problem.   The military hit rate is vastly worse, like 1 in 200,000.  

It's just something that stress and the human body cannot overcome.  Individuals can train hard and do much better,  but in aggregate, the average probably cant ever be improved much over what it is now, except that 9mm does move the needle a little due to less recoil.   More capacity, better hit rate.  Win-win

There may be technological improvements.  An AI optic that allows you to tag a bad guy and warns or prevents misses might do it one day.   Target seeking mini missiles too, although yikes on that!

Many shooters don't realize gunfighting is much different than gun games or the range.  Jeff Cooper said gunfighting is 95% mental and only 5% shooting skill.  I agree. 

I spent a lot of time at Rodman's Neck with NYPD.  They have the best stats for gunfights.  Years ago they realized how well someone shoots on the range has nothing to do how well they do in a gunfight.

Mental preparation for combat shooting is possible.  Not easy.  Jim Cirillo is the best example I know of this.

I've experience in both LE and the military.  How one has to conduct themselves in fighting is very different.  It took about 100,000 rds to kill one enemy soldier in WW2, 50,000 in Vietnam, and I've seen 60,000 in Iraq.

30% is not a bad average for LE gunfights.

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