Jump to content
kc17

Calling computer network specialists

Recommended Posts

sounds like you're making this WAY over complicated.

Just leave her on the FiOS router/WiFi until you get back and can either dicker with it yourself, or hire someone to dicker with it for you.
(Like me! :D )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I over complicate everything. It's one of my many talents.

A more knowledgeable co-worker convinced me to just replace the Asus and leave everything else alone. The Asus had been giving me some other troubles previously, so I can't say I didn't see it coming.

Hopefully it was be a quick swap out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My "simplified plan" of just replacing the existing router has not been working. Yes, this is long, to provide all relevant details.

I've had FiOS for several years now, with a personal router connected to the FiOS Modem/Router and my network running off of the personal one. I still use FiOS for TV, so I need to keep their box online for the full TV services/features. {I have been reading up about putting the FiOS device in Bridge Mode and using it as a client to handle the STB functions. That is a possibility, but I don't feel I should need to.}

I've run it this way with two previous routers, the most recent being an ASUS. The ASUS had been acting up, so I bought a new Netgear, I was not impressed with the performance for the price of the Netgear, plus the Netgear was a little flaky (was reporting false IP Addresses for devices, app wouldn't always connect, etc..), so I did an RMA on that and ordered a TRENDnet. The Netgear's DHCP Server did provide IP Addresses as expected.

That brings me to my question/problem. With the TRENDnet disconnected from FiOS all is fine, the TRENDnet DHCP Server issues IP Addresses as it should. Once I connect the TRENDnet to FiOS however, the TRENDnet no longer issues IP Addresses, the FiOS does, which of course creates havoc.

I put the ASUS back online in place of the TRENDnet and all devices go back to my LAN Subnet as they should. No other changes, just unplug the TRENDnet and plug in the ASUS.

Yes, DHCP is enabled on the TRENDnet (default), and it will issue Addresses when not connected to the FiOS. Yes, I am connecting a FiOS LAN port to the WAN port on the TRENDnet. No, I am not using conflicting schemes. FiOS is a 192.168.x.x my LAN is 172.16.x.x.

I suppose I could disable DHCP on the FiOS, but that creates two problems. I'm not sure if I can assign the STBs a Static Address and that removes the safety net of my wife being able to connect directly to the FiOS in event of a problem while she is working from home and I'm at work.

I've already reached out to TRENDnet and they claim they've never heard of this happening before. I was told they were going to do some testing in their lab, using my LAN scheme. I did change my LAN 10.10.10.1 for laughs and at TRENDnet's request and had the same faulty behavior.The TRENDnet want to use a 192 scheme by default.

I'm replacing the ASUS for a few reasons, not fully related to the new TRENDnet issue, but I'll put it out there. First thing I noticed was it would fail to give an IP Address to a laptop, happened to my company issued and my wife's personal. Neither took one from FiOS, they had no Address at all. A reboot of the ASUS would resolve that. Second failure was speed. I have 300mbps plan with FiOS and I was getting 20-40mbps hardwired, when I went direct to FiOS I was getting my ~300mbps. Third failure was being unable to get into the ASUS configuration.

Any ideas why the TRENDnet stops issuing addresses once connected to FiOS?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the trendnet have a dedicated WAN port?  The FIOS router should be connected to the Trendnet to the WAN port.  If it's already set that way, then for some reason maybe the Trendnet is providing DHCP on the WAN side?  That sounds wrong.  

I've never been a fan of trendnet devices.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you disable the router side of a bridge-router combo, the device should not be doing anything but acting as a bridge.  When you hook up a PC to a bridge, you will get one public IP address.  If you are getting more than bridge function, then the FiOS "brouter" is not properly configured.  Have you tried doing a factory reset on the FiOS device and starting from scratch?  You have nothing to loose because all of your network mgmt will be done on your independent router.  TV and phone are both managed on the network interface.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kc17 said:

reluctant to put blame

It's not about blame, it's about resolving he issue quickly.  If you do a hard reset, then all you have to do is set router to bridge mode on FiOS and you should be good to go.  You don't get to figure out what the problem was, but you get a functioning network.

EDIT:  You should probably write down your settings before the reset.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It almost sounds like the TrendNet is in a quasi bridge mode where it acts like a router when stand-alone but acts like a bridge if it detects a router upstream. That doesn’t really make any sense, there will always be a router upstream and every ISP serves out DHCP for the WAN.  Still maybe there is a system level configuration you’re missing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you've resolved this but if you aren't getting packet routing from the Wan Side to the Lan Side of the router, the answer is one of two things.

1.  The IPs are in the same subnet.   I.E.  192.168.1.1 on the wan side and 192.168.1.x on the lan side.  Not routable.

For what it's worth, all private IP blocks should be 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x or 172.16.x.x

2.  The router is a POS.   I buy a tremendous amount of equipment for networking.   I would only buy Trendnet for something that wasn't critical.  I.E. not a router.  It's essentially low end Chinese junk that works pretty good when it works, the rest of the time, not so much.

 

My guess, in your particular case, the router is letting you change the lan IP block to something other than 192.168.x.x but the Chinese probably hardcoded the routing table to 192.168.1.1 even though DHCP is issuing 172.16.x.x addresses.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Malsua said:

 

I know you've resolved this

 

Has he?  It wasn’t clear. I’d love to know what the resolution was. 
 

regardless of subnets,  no router should pass WAN DHCP over to the LAN side unless it is explicitly configured as a bridge (Not router).   Since it serves out DHCP when the WAN is disconnected it makes me think the router is in some dorked up half-bridge mode. Whether the configuration allows that or the router is AFU, I tend toward the latter. 
 

Get an Eero or similar and never look back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Has he?  It wasn’t clear. I’d love to know what the resolution was. 
 

regardless of subnets,  no router should pass WAN DHCP over to the LAN side unless it is explicitly configured as a bridge (Not router).   Since it serves out DHCP when the WAN is disconnected it makes me think the router is in some dorked up half-bridge mode. Whether the configuration allows that or the router is AFU, I tend toward the latter. 
 

Get an Eero or similar and never look back. 

See that's the thing.

The Fios is on a 192.168.x.x subnet

He sets his Lan side to 172.x or 10.x

He connects to it and he's getting 192.168.x.x.

He says " Once I connect the TRENDnet to FiOS however, the TRENDnet no longer issues IP Addresses, the FiOS does, which of course creates havoc. "

How does he know the IPs are coming from the FIOS box?  Is he looking at the DHCP table on the FIOS box?   If so, then yeah the router is misbehaving in a bridge or hybrid mode.   I'd more likely suspect that the router defaulted back to a 192.168.x.x DHCP subnet which then won't route.  

You have to find out where the leases are coming from.  Either way, the router is the issue.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Malsua said:

See that's the thing.

The Fios is on a 192.168.x.x subnet

He sets his Lan side to 172.x or 10.x

He connects to it and he's getting 192.168.x.x.

He says " Once I connect the TRENDnet to FiOS however, the TRENDnet no longer issues IP Addresses, the FiOS does, which of course creates havoc. "

How does he know the IPs are coming from the FIOS box?  Is he looking at the DHCP table on the FIOS box?   If so, then yeah the router is misbehaving in a bridge or hybrid mode.   I'd more likely suspect that the router defaulted back to a 192.168.x.x DHCP subnet which then won't route.  

You have to find out where the leases are coming from.  Either way, the router is the issue.

 

 

We are going down a rabbit hole, especially if the problem is fixed, but I love talking through this stuff. Since I can’t do it at work, might as well spam the thread :)  

Your idea would make sense except presumably the TrendNet assigns LAN IP’s on the configured 172.16.x range when disconnected from the WAN but his devices get a 192.168.x IP when the WAN is connected.  I’d find it very odd if the TrendNet nerf’d it’s config to the point it assigns 192.168 only when WAN is connected.  It’s possible though. 
 

It could be that the TrendNet doesn’t like having a private IP on the WAN side. That isn’t the norm.  As you said it may have some hard coded logic for 192.168 and maybe it doesn’t differentiate LAN/WAN Port for that subnet.  That bug could allow the FIOS DHCP through to the LAN.  The clients will use the first DHCP reservation they receive. It could also be that the FIOS box is MUCH faster than the TrendNet to respond that clients always get that one first. Wire shark on a client would show that almost immediately. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

It could also be that the FIOS box is MUCH faster than the TrendNet to respond that clients always get that one first.

If FiOS brouter is set to bridge mode, it should not be assigning ANY addresses.  It's only configured function is bridge and that operates on a whole other network layer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Scorpio64 said:

If FiOS brouter is set to bridge mode, it should not be assigning ANY addresses.  It's only configured function is bridge and that operates on a whole other network layer.

Agreed. Though I thought it was mentioned that it could not be put in bridge mode because of the FIOS IPTV boxes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@voyager9 & @Malsua

Thanks for the input guys. The issue with the TRENDnet is not resolved, I've got the old ASUS online since late Friday afternoon and so far it's behaving, but I feel it's a matter of time before it acts up again.

In response to some of your comments:

  • Yes, the FiOS LAN is a 192.168.x.x; it has a Dynamic Address on the WAN Side, and was configured by default to run 100% DHCP on the LAN side. I changed the DHCP Pool to only assign from .100 to .254 just for kicks; that made no difference.
  • I run my LAN as a 172.16.10.1/24. I hard-wire as much as I can and assign Static Addresses to as many devices as I can.
  • Yes, with the TRENDnet online I see the clients in the FiOS' DHCP list. I'm pretty they showed in the TRENDnet "connected devices"  list as well with a 192.168.x.x.
  • To odd to the strangeness (I neglected to mention this prior) either the Gateway or DNS remained as 172.16.10.1; I honestly don't recall which.
  • I also have a Repeater 172.16.10.3; early on, my devices were given that as the Gateway, even while they had a 192.168.x.x for an IP Address. The repeater is located in a shed and exists for the sole purpose of connecting a camera. I've run a cable from the shed into my basement, so that connection is also hard-wired. That might classify it as a Bridge, I forget the exact terms. It does assign an IP Address to the camera, and I can see the camera connected to the ASUS.
  • I agree it seems the TRENDnet is behaving as a Bridge, I did verify it is configured as a Router. Sometime late Friday I had the idea of setting it as a Bridge, then back to a Router. By then though I had the ASUS back online and was done with it.
  • TRENDnet Support claims they have people changing the LAN Address all the time and have never heard of this issue. That's why they asked me to try a 10.10.x.x as the LAN, which I did, had had the same failure.
  • At this time I am waiting for a response from TRENDnet. If it is resolved quickly, I may keep it. If there is no resolution by end of business day Monday I will be requesting an RMA.
  • That will leave me with the decision of keeping their 24-port unmanaged Switch or not. That seems to be behaving fine.

I'm continuing my research on other brands. I'd like to get one from a company that at least has their HQ in the US. That is a small list and even then they are often owned by a Chinese company.

 

Edit to add:

For devices that I can not assign a Static Address for, I typically create a reservation based on the MAC. The ASUS does not see the FiOS STBs, which is what I expect since they are on different LANs.

I have seen work-arounds to place the FiOS device in Bridge mode and still have all features to work as they should. I'd rather no go down that path. I also like having the standalone FiOS LAN as a backup. I've showed my wife how to connect to that network in event of a failure with my network while I'm at work. She's teaching remotely (even now, doing summer school for special needs kids) so going offline would be very bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, kc17 said:
  • Yes, the FiOS LAN is a 192.168.x.x; it has a Dynamic Address on the WAN Side, and was configured by default to run 100% DHCP on the LAN side. I changed the DHCP Pool to only assign from .100 to .254 just for kicks; that made no difference.
  • I run my LAN as a 172.16.10.1/24. I hard-wire as much as I can and assign Static Addresses to as many devices as I can.

Are you running two private address spaces concurrently for any particular reason?  If you are, that's fine, I do it myself to double wall my security system.   But, in that case, you only need to config the FiOS router as usual, no bridge mode, and just use FiOS brouter as gateway for trendnet router.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Scorpio64 said:

Are you running two private address spaces concurrently for any particular reason?  If you are, that's fine, I do it myself to double wall my security system.   But, in that case, you only need to config the FiOS router as usual, no bridge mode, and just use FiOS brouter as gateway for trendnet router.

Pretty much as you said, for additional security. Other reasons: I can change ISP very easily if I wanted. I played their game of low rates at sign up then switch over when the prices go up. Personal bought Routers typically perform better than what the ISP supplies. There's no reason ever for the ISP to see what I have running on my network. This way all they see is the STBs and my Router.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kc17 said:

Pretty much as you said

That make things a little more clear.  Set FiOS router (on LAN side) to assign a predetermined 192 IP based on trendnet MAC address.  You could also exclude the desired trendnet IP from the DHCP pool and do a static config on trendnet.  The 192 addy becomes the WAN space for trendnet and 172 LAN side of trendnet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you change the FIOS box config so it doesn’t use 192.168 as the LAN range?  That would determine If there is a problem with the TrendNet seeing that subnet on its WAN port.  Shouldn’t matter what you pick since it’s just between the two routers (assuming their IPTV boxes are on their own network you can’t change)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

That make things a little more clear.  Set FiOS router (on LAN side) to assign a predetermined 192 IP based on trendnet MAC address.  You could also exclude the desired trendnet IP from the DHCP pool and do a static config on trendnet.  The 192 addy becomes the WAN space for trendnet and 172 LAN side of trendnet.

 

1 minute ago, voyager9 said:

Can you change the FIOS box config so it doesn’t use 192.168 as the LAN range?  That would determine If there is a problem with the TrendNet seeing that subnet on its WAN port.  Shouldn’t matter what you pick since it’s just between the two routers (assuming their IPTV boxes are on their own network you can’t change)

Both are good ideas. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure I can make both of those changes on the FiOS side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't understand how DHCP from the FIOS box is getting routed to clients on the Trendnet side.

A client on the LAN side of the Trendnet sends out a Layer 2 request for DHCP.  This should not cross over to the wan side.  That's the whole point of a router.  It should not pass the DHCP request to the wan side.

Some other thoughts.

Turn off DHCP on the FIOS box, assign a static WAN IP on the Trendnet box.

If it is still getting a 192.168.x.x IP then your DHCP is hosed on the router, like there's a stuck entry at the top of the table. I'd do a factory reset on the router and start over.   I'd also make sure the firmware is up to date.

As for the ASUS router, I have, conservatively recommended ASUS routers to at _LEAST_ 100 people and I run 5 of them myself(one for each home, 3 for my surveillance networks).   I have YET to have anyone have any issues with them.

I do recommend the higher end ones where possible but these just work.   Yes, I'm quite sure they have had failures but compared to Dlink, netgear, trendnet, engenius and a host of other hop sing brands, it's a drop in the bucket.

Commercial routers is a whole different game, but no one I know is going to pay a couple grand for a CISCO router than can handle multiple fiber inputs and GIG connections.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Malsua said:

a couple grand for a CISCO router than can handle multiple fiber inputs and GIG connections.

Ha!  At least two digits to the left of the comma.   Just the QSFP25’s for 100G are a couple grand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Ha!  At least two digits to the left of the comma.   Just the QSFP25’s for 100G are a couple grand. 

All depends on specs.  

About 15 years ago we were buying these 32 port layer 3 cisco switches for around 3k each.

It was insane.   The traffic load was 1/100000 of what the switch could handle.  Hell, a dumb consumer grade switch from Walmart would have handled the traffic out to production equipment.  The guy was a dope.  The computers pulled a 2k to 10k text file every 10 minutes or so and occasionally hit the server for a directly refresh and he's got small data center ready switches to run 'em.   Dumbass.  I made his opinions irrelevant when I suggested some HP procurve switches for 1/10 the price.   Most of those are still running today and there is no issue.  He was "let go" in 2010.  A few were upgraded because the management on the old ones wasn't as good.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Malsua said:

.....

I don't understand how DHCP from the FIOS box is getting routed to clients on the Trendnet side.

Turn off DHCP on the FIOS box, assign a static WAN IP on the Trendnet box.

If it is still getting a 192.168.x.x IP then your DHCP is hosed on the router, like there's a stuck entry at the top of the table. I'd do a factory reset on the router and start over.   I'd also make sure the firmware is up to date.

As for the ASUS router, I have, conservatively recommended ASUS routers to at _LEAST_ 100 people and I run 5 of them myself(one for each home, 3 for my surveillance networks).   I have YET to have anyone have any issues with them.

I do recommend the higher end ones where possible but these just work.   .......

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't understand why what's happening is happening.

I did a firmware update & multiple resets. No improvement.

The ASUS is a RT-AC3100, installed November 2017.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No response from TRENDnet Support today so I requested a RMA. They responded/approved quickly but expected me to pay the return shipping. I informed them if they expected me to pay return shipping on a product that was not working correctly I'd return the switch as well. Took them longer to respond, but they said they'd email me a return label tomorrow.

I may return the switch as well anyway, even if I need to pay the shipping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...