Mag question.........

[xXxplosive 824]

According to our criminal code, specifically section N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1, a large capacity magazine is defined as a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly into a semi-automatic firearm.   Thus, is it unlawful for any individual to possess a magazine that holds more than 10 bullets.  Any person who knowingly has in his or her possession a large capacity magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3j.

was asked by a neighbor... my question is, as long as the mag in the gun has a max. capacity of 10 rounds... can you also load one in the pipe making it 11 round total or is there a capacity law as well for semi auto handguns.....

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

The magazine limit applies only to the magazine. Having another round in the chamber is fine.

Conversely, having a magazine capable of feeding more than 10 rounds into a semi-auto firearm is a felony, regardless of whether you own or possess the firearm.

People need to use caution. E.g. the Ruger American Ranch rifle uses the same magazines as an AR-15. You cannot have a 30 round mag for the Ruger, because the magazine can feed a semi-auto, regardless of whether that's what you're doing with it.

[ESB 247]

 

On 12/20/2023 at 9:13 AM, xXxplosive said:

Thus, is it unlawful for any individual to possess a magazine that holds more than 10 bullets.  Any person who knowingly has in his or her possession a large capacity magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3j.

You could stuff way more than 10 rounds of .22lr into a 10round .223 mag and with a BCG conversion you can fire .22lr out of a .223/5.56 rifle.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

1 hour ago, ESB said:

 

You could stuff way more than 10 rounds of .22lr into a 10round .223 mag and with a BCG conversion you can fire .22lr out of a .223/5.56 rifle.

Clearly, .22LR will not feed nor function from standard .223 mags. You need the mags that come with the conversion kit! Try it yourself!

 

[Ferris 78]

14 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Clearly, .22LR will not feed nor function from standard .223 mags. You need the mags that come with the conversion kit! Try it yourself!

 

 

Conversely a 450 Bushmaster 10 round AR mag also happens to be a normal 30 round AR-15 mag, the follower is a little different so lets say is makes it a 28 round ar mag.  What happens in that case, not expecting you to have an answer but clearly the police could easily arrest and turn over for prosecution any 450 Bushmaster AR owner in this case, not sure if having a 450 Bushmaster sticker on the mag absolves on or not.

I'm of the opinion every gun law is written for a creative police officer and prosecutor to turn any man they want into a felon .

[ESB 247]

14 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Clearly, .22LR will not feed nor function from standard .223 mags. You need the mags that come with the conversion kit! Try it yourself!

 

I agree, I just think the way the law is poorly written could allow a biased cop or prosecutor to charge you and then pressure you to plea to a lesser crime.  

 

[Ferris 78]

4 minutes ago, ESB said:

I agree, I just think the way the law is poorly written could allow a biased cop or prosecutor to charge you and then pressure you to plea to a lesser crime.  

 

This is 100% the case , I don't think they even believe in half the cases they bring but they charge hard and get you to plea it down to not spend >50k for a lawyer or risk states prison.  It's a win win for them cops get an arrest(a gun arrest), the prosecutors get a win, a gun win, and you get disfranchised of your rights. Even most carry insurances will abandon you and leave you with a public defender  in these case.

[brucin 923]

59 minutes ago, Ferris said:

I'm of the opinion every gun law is written for a creative police officer and prosecutor to turn any man they want into a felon .

Show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's secret police chief

[diamondd817 827]

14 hours ago, ESB said:

I agree, I just think the way the law is poorly written could allow a biased cop or prosecutor to charge you and then pressure you to plea to a lesser crime.  

 

It's not poorly written, it's intentionally written like that. 

[silverado427 10,729]

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:37 PM, ESB said:

 

You could stuff way more than 10 rounds of .22lr into a 10round .223 mag and with a BCG conversion you can fire .22lr out of a .223/5.56 rifle.

Read the whole statute. To be illegal the magazine must be able to hold more than 10 rounds AND be able to continuously feed them into a semi auto firearm. 

The mags you use with a .22LR conversion are completely different from a 5.56/.223 magazine. There is no way a .22LR round will feed from a 5.56/.223 mag especially if you stuff 11 of them in there - they would not stack properly. 

A prosecutor would have to ignore the statute to write up a charge. He could just as easily charge you with wearing green pants on a Wednesday. Don't worry about being charged with offenses that are completely imaginary. You can't think of them all, and you would never do anything. 

[Ferris 78]

On 1/16/2024 at 6:00 PM, Mr.Stu said:

Read the whole statute. To be illegal the magazine must be able to hold more than 10 rounds AND be able to continuously feed them into a semi auto firearm. 

The mags you use with a .22LR conversion are completely different from a 5.56/.223 magazine. There is no way a .22LR round will feed from a 5.56/.223 mag especially if you stuff 11 of them in there - they would not stack properly. 

A prosecutor would have to ignore the statute to write up a charge. He could just as easily charge you with wearing green pants on a Wednesday. Don't worry about being charged with offenses that are completely imaginary. You can't think of them all, and you would never do anything. 

But again there are interchangable mags that do work, 450 Bushmaster and 223, P226 40/357 sig mag will run 9mm,  I'm sure there are others. So there is still enough play to jam up anyone.

[124gr9mm 859]

19 hours ago, Ferris said:

But again there are interchangable mags that do work, 450 Bushmaster and 223, P226 40/357 sig mag will run 9mm,  I'm sure there are others. So there is still enough play to jam up anyone.

Has there EVER been a magazine limit prosecution for someone shooting a 450 Bushmaster because "it can also take .223/5.56"?  Same for the Sig with 40/.357sig and 9mm?

Ever?

The more we fret about the boogeyman, the more power we give him.

There are plenty of obstacles to tackle without inventing imaginary ones...

 

[Ferris 78]

25 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Has there EVER been a magazine limit prosecution for someone shooting a 450 Bushmaster because "it can also take .223/5.56"?  Same for the Sig with 40/.357sig and 9mm?

Ever?

The more we fret about the boogeyman, the more power we give him.

There are plenty of obstacles to tackle without inventing imaginary ones...

 

Sure but the point is the law is vague enough that you can be prosecuted  if the police or prosecuted really  wanted to. I think it's fair to say most law abiding gun owners rarely interact with the police enough for an example case to be cited in this case. I mean I don't personally drive around and ask the police if they want to check out mags.

However if we learned anything from the anti gun government types they do and will use what they can when they want. IIRC Nappan cited a case of a someone getting charged with Hollow points because they had a key ring with a hollow point. There are plenty of other WTF cases out there that can be cited in NJ regarding the law being misapplied or bent to prosecute someone because guns are bad ok.

[xXxplosive 824]

So what about these solid copper bullets like the G9 or the Lehigh Defense Penetrator.....are they considered hollow points due to their configuration and what about magazine feed issues with them....anyone have experience with these.

[124gr9mm 859]

16 minutes ago, Ferris said:

I think it's fair to say most law abiding gun owners rarely interact with the police enough for an example case to be cited in this case.

Then why waste the mental energy on a "what if" that has next to zero chance of coming to fruition?

Trying to come up with the most absurd 'what if' that the NJ AG could 'potentially' charge someone with is a massive time waster...

[JohnnyB 4,325]

16 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

So what about these solid copper bullets like the G9 or the Lehigh Defense Penetrator.....are they considered hollow points due to their configuration and what about magazine feed issues with them....anyone have experience with these.

The nose of the bullet is not hollow therefore they are not hollow points. They do not expand on impact and are not prohibited.

@$35.00 for a box of 20, they are expensive as heck!  Just yesterday I paid the same $35.00 for a 50 round box of Critical Duty 135gr. 9mm.

[xXxplosive 824]

Hmmm......G9 Defense are called.....9mm 80 gr External Hollow Point .  I dunno.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

8 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

Hmmm......G9 Defense are called.....9mm 80 gr External Hollow Point .  I dunno.

External hollow point is an oxymoron. It's a sales gimmick to let people know it performs like a hollow point but without the hole or the expansion. 

[ESB 247]

Underwood Extreme Defender has similar bullet design.  

9mm Luger +P 90gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Self Defense Ammo (underwoodammo.com)

[JohnnyB 4,325]

34 minutes ago, ESB said:

Underwood Extreme Defender has similar bullet design.  

9mm Luger +P 90gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Self Defense Ammo (underwoodammo.com)

Not a hollow point. GTG IMHO!